Manager Ange Postecoglou

[AberdeenYid]

But, and this isn't a defence of Frank but merely pointing out the points you've brought up unequally...

didn't Frank take over with us on the cusp of relegation and just as, arguably, our 2nd best player in the PL era was leaving (and 5th all-time goalscorer).

Also not sure how we can say 'a stronger squad', because almost all of our starting forwards from the previous season were missing.

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Frank took us over when we were 17th, but a huge distance from relegation. And we’d just won a European trophy. Yes, Son left, but take a look at his thread on here for that season and see how well he was performing. Losing the Kane we did and the Son we did aren’t comparable.

And yes, we had missing forwards, but also had Kudus, RKM and Simons added to that front line. And the forwards we had missing weren’t exactly wholly available to Ange either. Nor was our entire defence.

There’s absolutely no way anyone can paint Frank in a positive light on here. Even in comparison to the guy who finished 17th previously. It’s not even worth trying.

 

[CJJ]

Frank took us over when we were 17th, but a huge distance from relegation. And we’d just won a European trophy. Yes, Son left, but take a look at his thread on here for that season and see how well he was performing. Losing the Kane we did and the Son we did aren’t comparable.

And yes, we had missing forwards, but also had Kudus, RKM and Simons added to that front line. And the forwards we had missing weren’t exactly wholly available to Ange either. Nor was our entire defence.

There’s absolutely no way anyone can paint Frank in a positive light on here. Even in comparison to the guy who finished 17th previously. It’s not even worth trying.

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How Son was performing was in a huge way to how the manager was performing though.

We finished on 38 points, which is basically the same PPG as we have so far, so I don't agree we were a "huge distance" from relegation - our only salvation was the lack of form by the 3 teams that went down.

FWIW, Maddison played 45 times under Ange last season, and Kulusevski played 50, and Solanke 45.

Frank got what ? about 6 or 7 from Solanke out of that total, and of course 0 from Son.

An attempt to say the squad was "stronger" - especially in light of how crap RKM and Simons have been under two managers, is very much on the cusp of credibility.

Trying to put Postecoglous last PL season in any positive light is exactly the same as the point about Frank, except Frank got sacked before he had the chance of magically redeem himself with europe

 

[AberdeenYid]

How Son was performing was in a huge way to how the manager was performing though.

We finished on 38 points, which is basically the same PPG as we have so far, so I don't agree we were a "huge distance" from relegation - our only salvation was the lack of form by the 3 teams that went down.

FWIW, Maddison played 45 times under Ange last season, and Kulusevski played 50, and Solanke 45.

Frank got what ? about 6 or 7 from Solanke out of that total, and of course 0 from Son.

An attempt to say the squad was "stronger" - especially in light of how crap RKM and Simons have been under two managers, is very much on the cusp of credibility.

Trying to put Postecoglous last PL season in any positive light is exactly the same as the point about Frank, except Frank got sacked before he had the chance of magically redeem himself with europe

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Fair points on Maddison and Kulu.

We were never in relegation trouble with Ange. We just weren’t. We now are. Admit it or don’t, no skin off my balls.

And the squad was stronger. RKM and Simons not being great is surely reflective on the manager? Kudus being injured would have been the managers fault last season, but not his season? Three warm attacking bodies. All full internationals. Costing tens of millions. That we didn’t have before. Stronger.

And it’s very easy to put Ange’s last season in a positive light. A big metal shiny positive light. Shaped like a trophy.

Positive light under Frank? We eventually sacked the useless cunt.

 

[Phomesy]

Trying to put Postecoglous last PL season in any positive light is exactly the same as the point about Frank, except Frank got sacked before he had the chance of magically redeem himself with europe

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Of course no one has done this but you'll just straw man it anyway because that's all you have.

Postecoglou was sacked for his PL season. The question is whether people like you were right that "any half decent manager would have us flying up the table".

That question has been answered. Brutally. As AberdeenYid rightly points out - you just don't have the character to admit you were wrong.

ALL of us were WRONG.

Some of us just have the character to admit it.

 

[Shadydan]

How Son was performing was in a huge way to how the manager was performing though.

We finished on 38 points, which is basically the same PPG as we have so far, so I don't agree we were a "huge distance" from relegation - our only salvation was the lack of form by the 3 teams that went down.

FWIW, Maddison played 45 times under Ange last season, and Kulusevski played 50, and Solanke 45.

Frank got what ? about 6 or 7 from Solanke out of that total, and of course 0 from Son.

An attempt to say the squad was "stronger" - especially in light of how crap RKM and Simons have been under two managers, is very much on the cusp of credibility.

Trying to put Postecoglous last PL season in any positive light is exactly the same as the point about Frank, except Frank got sacked before he had the chance of magically redeem himself with europe

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I'm sorry what?

Son was on his way down because he was on his way down, it had nothing to do with the manager...he was well past his prime because his legs started to go, same thing happened to De Bruyne and the same thing is happening to Salah now.

Also Frank had the back 5 pretty much fit and available throughout his tenure, I don't remember ay any point Frank having to play Gray and Dragusin as his CB pairings and Forster in goal. He also got his 6 in Palhinha btw whilst Kulu and Maddison were replaced in Kudus and Xavi - Maddison to Xavi is a downgrade but you can't say that about Kulu to Kudus and they're certainly not clear downgrades going from our starting CB's to a 19 year old kid playing out of position and Dragusin,

Solanke missing was balanced out with an actual fit Richarlison for the majority of Frank's tenure AND another striker in RKM, in fact the more I think about it the more I realise how bad of a job Frank actually done, he didn't even have the excuse of an injury crisis until December.

What was Frank ever going to do in Europe ffs, win the CL?

 

[Deuterz]

Frank had the worse squad imo.

 

[Phomesy]

I sense a disturbance in the Force.

I fear a Deuterz intervention is imminent...

 

[Phomesy]

Frank had the worse squad imo.

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I'M A WITCH!

 

[Deuterz]

I'M A WITCH!

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Definitely a worse squad

 

[Phomesy]

Definitely a worse squad

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Cool.

You and CJJ can go and discuss on the Frank thread perhaps?

 

[JDefoe]

Frank had the worse squad imo.

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Certainly worse injuries. Say what you will about the December/January defensive crisis, at least Ange always had at least 2 functioning forwards/creative players with match winning quality in the team. Frank got literally zero games of Kulu/Madders/Son who were our most productive players under Ange.

And then Kudus going down was just diabolical.

 

[Phomesy]

The Derangers are about to assemble and pretend that having 4 of your starting back 5 defence out for 3 months was LUXURY compared to the woes Thomas Frank endured.

Of course they'll discuss it here because they don't actually give a fuck about any of it. It's all performative nonsense.

Okay Derangers - we concede the point. Either way it still means injuries and a poor squad were always the problem not the managers.

Okay?

 

[Shadydan]

Revisionism about Thomas fucking Frank, literally our worst manager we've ever had...this place never ceases to amaze me

 

[Kiro Kompiro]

IMO blaming the injury crises and not Postecoglou for the 17th position finish, is the same as blaming the injury crises and 16th (I think it was) position and not Frank.

So a rational argument could be made that Frank was as good as Postecoglou, IMO he was a bit worse but there is a rational argument that could exist regardless.

It seems all the excuses that were made for Postecoglou, Frank wasn't entitled to. Maddison and Kulusevski are probably the best two attacking players at the club.

Frank didn't win a trophy but the team was doing well in the Champions League, which is regarded as a tougher competition than the Europa League.

Seems like people want to make excuses for Postecoglou's league position but refuse to make the same excuses for Frank.

A mental health professional, could well find that deranged, and like Shadydan once said, Postecoglou has brainwashed the supporters, so I assume the supporters he was referring to includes you.

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Maddison was also injured under Postecoglou. Both he and Kulusevski were injured when he came Frank came in so the club b4ought in players to cover.

The club brought in Xavi, Palinha, Gallagher, RKM, Kudus as midfielders and attackers He's also had a more experienced Gray and Tel. He froze out Bissouma.

Frank was unable to get the most out of his midfielders and attackers.

But mostly, the football under Frank was utter rubbish after about the first month and just kept getting worse.

 

[Kiro Kompiro]

But, and this isn't a defence of Frank but merely pointing out the points you've brought up unequally...

didn't Frank take over with us on the cusp of relegation and just as, arguably, our 2nd best player in the PL era was leaving (and 5th all-time goalscorer).

Also not sure how we can say 'a stronger squad', because almost all of our starting forwards from the previous season were missing.

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Despite the league placing, we were never on the cusp of being relegated under Postecoglou, unlike now.

Xavi, Palinha, Gallagher,Kudus, RKM were brought in to cover the injuries. Gray and Tel have grown since as well. Frank had enough resources to not end up where he did.

 

[walter]

What other forums do you use?
I do like this place and it's nothing if not entertaining but it can be hard to find balanced views on anything, it's hard to have a decent discussion.

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I've tried a number of other forums, but the only other one I visit with any frequency other than this one, is Glory Glory.

To be honest I should probably have amended my original post to read "I learnt long ago if you want reasoned, balanced football debate, the internet is not the place to come to".

While I think the internet in general is the greatest invention since the printing press, it's very difficult to have some kind of decent discourse on any subject at all. There's always a handful of bellends who insist on ruining it.

 

[McFlash]

I've tried a number of other forums, but the only other one I visit with any frequency other than this one, is Glory Glory.

To be honest I should probably have amended my original post to read "I learnt long ago if you want reasoned, balanced football debate, the internet is not the place to come to".

While I think the internet in general is the greatest invention since the printing press, it's very difficult to have some kind of decent discourse on any subject at all. There's always a handful of bellends who insist on ruining it.

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I have dabbled in GG but it seemed like there were only about 10 members!
I do miss SC tbh, some great members and discussion on there, a lot of knowledgeable posters too.

 

[CJJ]

Despite the league placing, we were never on the cusp of being relegated under Postecoglou, unlike now.

Xavi, Palinha, Gallagher,Kudus, RKM were brought in to cover the injuries. Gray and Tel have grown since as well. Frank had enough resources to not end up where he did.

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But that is completely outside of our control.

What you'd be effectively saying is we were never on the cusp of winning the title in 2016/17 because chelsea had far more points than us, so the performance is irrelvant.

It's such a stretch it's a good job the brain doesn't have tendons

 

[Kiro Kompiro]

But that is completely outside of our control.

What you'd be effectively saying is we were never on the cusp of winning the title in 2016/17 because chelsea had far more points than us, so the performance is irrelvant.

It's such a stretch it's a good job the brain doesn't have tendons

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What?

Postecoglou has literally said once it become clear to him that we weren't getting relegated he focused on the Europa. If it looked like we could get relegated than its reasonable to assume that a different approach would have been taken and with possibly different outcomes in the league.

Anyway, its all hypothetical.

What we do know for a fact is we didn't get relegated, we were never in danger of it, and we won the Europa.

 

[walter]

What?

Postecoglou has literally said once it become clear to him that we weren't getting relegated he focused on the Europa. If it looked like we could get relegated than its reasonable to assume that a different approach would have been taken and with possibly different outcomes in the league.

Anyway, its all hypothetical.

What we do know for a fact is we didn't get relegated, we were never in danger of it, and we won the Europa.

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To be fair there were a couple of weeks after Christmas, where it looked a bit dodgy but we quickly put together a little winning run of three games on the trot in February, and after that we were free to concentrate on the Europa.

What we wouldn't give for three wins in a row now though eh?

Even one win in a row would be nice!