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Manager Ange Postecoglou

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Was sacking Ange a good idea?

  • Yes, I think it was a good idea.

    Votes: 73 64.6%
  • No, I think it was a bad idea.

    Votes: 40 35.4%

  • Total voters
    113
The Udogie injury was a blessing in forcing Micky to LB and Radu to CB, where the former is so much better at defending set pieces. Not sure what we do when the Big Dog is back. It’s about half a dozen games we won’t lose from set piece goals next season.
 
Spurs won’t look solid enough under any system. They just don’t have the players. Not even Pep could save Spurs with garbage like Sarr, Johnson in the starting XI. Huge question marks also on Bentancur, Bissouma. Kulusevski, Udogie etc. IMO only Vicario, VDV, Son, Maddison perhaps also Porro and Richarlison (as a winger) are good enough to be in a Championship winning team.

The thing with Ange is this. you now have a Championship winning style of football. That’s one of the two variables ticked off. Now you just need to go and find the players. Big question of Ange is weather he is capable of diagnosing the weaknesses in his team and go about disposing of them (ie Sarr).
Another Brennan Johnson 3 yard finish of a post.
 
26 points from first 10 games and 13 points out of last 10.
My narrative stays the same it always was.

We had an easy start!!! And a bastard finish!!
There's far more to it than that though. And the same logic would apply to any new manager and a team that has undergone a fairly high churn of player changes.
Those first 10 games were probably skewed by;
Teams not knowing what to expect from us​
New manager bounce​
New players coming into the fold eager to impress​
Those player carrying their prior training into the THFC team​
Confidence from results​
There's then multiple factors that contributed to the drop off in form and results after that. I could probably write far too long a list, but the one that scares me, is the undoing of training players had learned prior to Ange. If that happened, then we have a problem.
 
There's far more to it than that though. And the same logic would apply to any new manager and a team that has undergone a fairly high churn of player changes.
Those first 10 games were probably skewed by;
Teams not knowing what to expect from us​
New manager bounce​
New players coming into the fold eager to impress​
Those player carrying their prior training into the THFC team​
Confidence from results​
There's then multiple factors that contributed to the drop off in form and results after that. I could probably write far too long a list, but the one that scares me, is the undoing of training players had learned prior to Ange. If that happened, then we have a problem.
I was just going for more of a catchy punchline.

You actually seem to want to write a narrative of the season.
Crack on.
 
That dam Chelsea at home match absolutely wrecked us. The injuries. The BS red. We never really got into a groove after that.
Yep this was definitely the turning point we didn’t really recover from. We had a relatively kind fixture list to start and after this game his refusal to adapt tactics to the match situation killed us. The Wolves away game stands out. Should’ve been a scrappy win which turns into a demoralising loss
 
lol

He's a poor man's Conte. His second season with Brighton was exactly like Conte's second season with us and at Chelsea. His patterns have been found out and all he can do is blame other people for it.

Literally the same type of manager as Ange albeit with a poorer temperament, get him some better players and he's likely be successful, same as Ange.
 
Literally the same type of manager as Ange albeit with a poorer temperament, get him some better players and he's likely be successful, same as Ange.
Not at all, De Zerbi just drills the same patterns into the players like Conte does.

He even uses the same tactic as Conte of drawing in the opposition in order to play through them.

And he starts crying when things don’t go his way, like Conte does.

I rated him last season, I even said to you I wanted him as our next manager. I was wrong, he’s overrated.
 
Yep this was definitely the turning point we didn’t really recover from. We had a relatively kind fixture list to start and after this game his refusal to adapt tactics to the match situation killed us. The Wolves away game stands out. Should’ve been a scrappy win which turns into a demoralising loss
I would actually have been concerned if we won the away game at Wolves.
That was possibly the worst football we played all season. We were shocking and 2-1 flattered us.
If we'd have held on for 1-0 I think we'd have seen the same the next game and for a while.
 
Not at all, De Zerbi just drills the same patterns into the players like Conte does.

He even uses the same tactic as Conte of drawing in the opposition in order to play through them.

And he starts crying when things don’t go his way, like Conte does.

I rated him last season, I even said to you I wanted him as our next manager. I was wrong, he’s overrated.

You can say the same thing about Ange, we just have better players than Brighton.

Most managers use a tactic of baiting a press (although his is more obvious), we do it when we instruct Romero to hold onto the ball, Pep and Arteta do it, that's how you break teams down - it's just more effective when you have the kind of good players to pull it off.

Last season was great but let's be real he lost the heart of his midfield and had a shit load of injuries this season, more to the point he was never going to recreate what he did last season because they were playing in Europe as well.

The only thing I agree with is that his temperament is shit so I wouldn't trust him as a long term manager and he's very Conte like in terms of acting like a brat but he's a very good coach.
 
I would actually have been concerned if we won the away game at Wolves.
That was possibly the worst football we played all season. We were shocking and 2-1 flattered us.
If we'd have held on for 1-0 I think we'd have seen the same the next game and for a while.
Every team is going to have a few shockers each season, if you can still manage to win those games that makes the team stronger in my opinion and you can carry the momentum.
 
You can say the same thing about Ange, we just have better players than Brighton.

Most managers use a tactic of baiting a press (although his is more obvious), we do it when we instruct Romero to hold onto the ball, Pep and Arteta do it, that's how you break teams down - it's just more effective when you have the kind of good players to pull it off.

Last season was great but let's be real he lost the heart of his midfield and had a shit load of injuries this season, more to the point he was never going to recreate what he did last season because they were playing in Europe as well.

The only thing I agree with is that his temperament is shit so I wouldn't trust him as a long term manager and he's very Conte like in terms of acting like a brat but he's a very good coach.
He is an alright coach but his coaching has a limit.

Like I said, it’s incredibly rigid like Conte. I don’t think it’s a coincidence he’s fallen off in his second season like Conte did in his second season with us and Chelsea.

Ange is more fluid. You can even see it with the spacing. Brighton players know exactly where their teammates are due to the rigid coaching where everyone has to be in a certain area. We don’t have that as much. Obviously there are still certain zones that the players need to be in but it isn’t as strict.

The problem is even though you need to be a good coach to be able to get the spacing right and for everyone to be coordinated like that and to drill those patterns, it eventually gets too predictable which is why De Zerbi and Conte have the types of second seasons they do in the prem.
 
Every team is going to have a few shockers each season, if you can still manage to win those games that makes the team stronger in my opinion and you can carry the momentum.
What I distinctly remember, was the commentators and fans on here all praising Dier and Davies all match long, when the truth is, Wolves just missed a lot of chances. There wasn't a masterclass of defending, it was lucky as fuck we hung on until injury time.

I called it in the 80th minute that we'd lose. Not draw, but lose.

We've learned that Ange is quite stubborn, so if we'd won that, he would have gone with Dier and Davies again and possibly for a while. As it was, he dropped Dier straight away and barely used him again.
 
He is an alright coach but his coaching has a limit.

Like I said, it’s incredibly rigid like Conte. I don’t think it’s a coincidence he’s fallen off in his second season like Conte did in his second season with us and Chelsea.

Ange is more fluid. You can even see it with the spacing. Brighton players know exactly where their teammates are due to the rigid coaching where everyone has to be in a certain area. We don’t have that as much. Obviously there are still certain zones that the players need to be in but it isn’t as strict.

The problem is even though you need to be a good coach to be able to get the spacing right and for everyone to be coordinated like that and to drill those patterns, it eventually gets too predictable which is why De Zerbi and Conte have the types of second seasons they do in the prem.
I'd add to that. The problem with a rigid structure is that when a smart team pulls your players out of it, you then have players who don't know how to resolve the issue, as they've never been allowed to find their own solutions. If you treat players like robots, you shouldn't be surprised when they don't know how to react to situations outside their programming.

AP has a style that he wants to play, but he empowers the players to find their own solutions when things don't go according to plan. It's just another aspect of their education, but it obviously takes time to see who can do it and who can't.
 
He is an alright coach but his coaching has a limit.

Like I said, it’s incredibly rigid like Conte. I don’t think it’s a coincidence he’s fallen off in his second season like Conte did in his second season with us and Chelsea.

Ange is more fluid. You can even see it with the spacing. Brighton players know exactly where their teammates are due to the rigid coaching where everyone has to be in a certain area. We don’t have that as much. Obviously there are still certain zones that the players need to be in but it isn’t as strict.

The problem is even though you need to be a good coach to be able to get the spacing right and for everyone to be coordinated like that and to drill those patterns, it eventually gets too predictable which is why De Zerbi and Conte have the types of second seasons they do in the prem.

The limit is players, Conte has rigid tactics but we've seen with the right players he can win leagues, there's literally no difference.

Ange allows his full backs more fluidity but they're both extremely risky tacticians, they had their CB pressing Maddison when we played them for example, they both get their teams to press super high, their rest defence is remarkably similar, both their teams have problems with transitions because they push so many players forward, also both struggle to break down low blocks.

Every manager's system is rigid to a certain extent, look at Pep's system, you know exactly how they are going to play, look at their patterns and their system, the difference is that they have the players to pull it off - Haaland and Foden is miles better than Welbeck and Enciso for example.

Give the guy better players and his system makes more sense.

This is why if Ange gets his players BTW he'll push us onto much higher levels because at the moment there's a limit to Ange ball because of the players he has at his disposal.
 
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