Don't step away, you're fair and good poster. If someone pisses you off put him on ignore, I have at least 5 on my list.
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Manager Ange Postecoglou
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Agreed, yesterday was not about tactical failings. We had no trouble defending set pieces and dominated the ball in their half.
The failings were all mental. We didn’t kill the game and then gifted them a goal and lost composure. There was nothing tactical about the way we lost two points. It’s just a lack of mental aggression.
When the game is easy like it was for the first hour against Leicester, you have to destroy the opponent. Too often we relax too much and start coasting as if we’re 5-0 up when we’ve only scored one goal. Then when we do concede, we shit ourselves. We are still a really soft team, we can play nice football but not killer football.
It wasn't just a poor run of results. We were horrible after the initial 10 games.
Some of you guys seem to run on delusion.
We've regressed since month 2 of Ange's arrival. There are literally no encouraging signs. Not all is down to the coach but deeply ingrained limitations in the squad, both mental and technical, as well as poor squad planning.
But things aren't magically going to turn around. We'll keep playing the exact same system, which has been found out for like 9 months, and we'll continue to see poor results.
Ange wouldn't be getting City results with City players either. If that was the case, why didn't they just hire Ange? His 'system' (I hate when people call it that tbh) ie tactics are far worse than the top coaches. There is no flexibility, no rotation or ways to counter the opponent. Just the same wide wing, inverted fb stuff.
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Not sure on any of that tbh.
No encouraging signs? Did you not watch the football we played under Jose, Nuno and Conte? Please explain how there are no encouraging signs compared to some of the football we used to have to watch.
What's your answer if you don't think this coach has a chance in succeeding? Go and get the next flavour of the month manager and start again?
Good honest appraisal of the situation, currently going on.
We all want him and the club to succeed, but a number of us have raised concerns over the same issues not being resolved.
I to raised the issue in between both BM games that, nothing has changed from last year.
Last night also highlighted that as well, after being in such control, it was shocking how quickly the team fell apart after conceding.
He talks about winning things and yes, that's great we all share that vision, but until this team can put chances away at one end, and stop conceding cheap goals the other end, it remains a dream only.
If he can't stop this with elite level coaching, then his position at some point becomes questionable.
What are the encouraging signs? We are playing like shit, concede goals essentially EVERY game, don't even score that much and every game is a struggle. Conte and Mou were also shit, that doesn't mean this is encouraging. Ange's had a year with the team and they are actually playing WORSE now than they were when he arrived.
We need competent people running the club from the top obviously. We sign tons of good youth players but with no clear planning with older mentors which means they end up not realizing their potential while also stunting our current performances. Liverpool, Woolwich and City literally gave us the blueprint - sign great and mentally strong players in the ages of 22-25 for 2-3 years then start signing a mix of proven and potentially great players to give the team institutional knowledge.
I'm not gonna name names but we should have went for a manager with a modern footballing education. But the manager won't matter if the structure above him is shit.
And yet the strange thing is I saw (caught the last 10 mins) of an Australian programme I think, where he was saying how he hates the hesitation and slow play from the keeper out.
Well fucking stop it then!
To be honest, all of the “encouraging signs” are aesthetic ones.
None of the performance metrics, from underlying xG to actual points earned and table position, and obviously not cup performance, suggests that we are actually any better under Ange than we were under Mou or Conte.
I won’t be booing at half time and neither will 95% of the stadium. But that’s the trouble when we are paying ridiculously high ticket prices, failure isn’t as well tolerated as it might have been in the past. Surely that’s a good thing?
Fans shouldn’t turn on the manager anyway. We can’t consistently do it whilst the same constant is there and is to blame. Nobody is calling for him to go really, just that they wouldn’t be surprised if he can’t turn this team into what he wants and it leads to his demise. Hopefully he gets them playing well week in week out but it will be hard.
Only five???!!!!!!!!
You’re clearly more tolerant of the knobs than I am!!
We’ve just got less of an arsehole managing us!
I don’t know what the answer is but we are terrible finding managers unless Levy lucks out. I want Ange to be a success but there is a large proportion of fans who deep down don’t want him because he isn’t Poch. Not that I’m convinced he’s the answer either. Maybe Ange will be, he’ll be given another year but Levy won’t want to miss out on the champions league for too many years longer.
I would say the encouraging signs are that we're a far more progressive football team now, we look to dominate more games, we look to control more games, we're getting the ball into the box more than what we did in the recent past and in general Ange has taken us back to what alot of fans wanted and that was attacking football.
There are things that frustrate me with our game but I still feel we need time, it's the classic 'the players are the ones that cross the whiteline' and it's so true in football. Ange can't control Romero going ball watching to allow Vardy a free header likewise he can't control our players not taking their chances in the first half.
My biggest gripe with all of this isn't so much me defending Ange, its the constant whinging and whining from fickle fans who were unhappy with Conte playing counter attack football, they bleated on about 'we want our Tottenham back' yet still moan and are unwilling to have any patience.
Obviously you have gripes with ENIC and Levy and that's for a different thread but what I would say is our transfer policy is better than what it was, we seem to be buying players suited to a system rather than the scatter gun approach we used to have.
Good Point:
Football management is becoming
“ a younger mans game “ ; but in a way it always has been . Since Joe Fagan ( forty years ago ) only two managers have won the 1st Division / Premiership for first time over the age of 50 . Ferguson was 51 and had had six goes at it , Ranieri was 64 ( an exceptional event for a lot of reasons) .All the others were roughly 15 years younger ( or more ) than Ange is now .
Hopefully he’s learnt a lot of useful things on his journey and we just have hope he’s able to use his experience in a way that’s useful and helpful to us . He’s obviously just as desperate for the club to succeed as we all are .
Let’s be hopeful , for now at least.
The post mortem may come one day ;
but not just yet .
Onwards.
I think a certain element is where our fanbase has grown massively. Reading a post on here earlier, it was about Poch's start to the second season where we didn't win in our first four games. Modern fans don't seem to have any kind of will to want to get behind the manager or support a long term plan, it's all 'we want stuff now' mentality.
The reality of the high ticket prices is its your choice to pay it, I pay for my season ticket out of choice and enjoyment of supporting the team, I don't let a high fee dictate to how I support the football club with a want want want attitude. It was similar a couple of years ago when there were fans saying that because they pay alot of money for their ticket it gave them a right to boo Emerson Royale which quite frankly was laughable.
Four year contracts just seem pointless if fans can't at least see what things are like then. If around the 3rd season (even end of this season) or so we're still making the same errors then fair enough but for me it's still too early to be even thinking about changing the manager or losing faith.
Best to give it another decade or so because we jump to conclusions imo
I am still aboard the Ange train, didn’t Real Madrid just daw their opening game against a team who finished 15th last season, whilst dominating on every front? It happens in football. A game of fine margins. Of course his system works, we nearly got top 4 last year whilst having have our best players out for half the season. If we took our chances last night and won 3-1, there wouldn’t be 250 added pages to this thread. I do think Son looks poor atm. Definitely has to start Kulu against Everton. Bergvall in for Sarr as well IMO.
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My thoughts exactly. There's nothing you can point to that says the club is headed in the right direction. Or any direction.
The team that went into last season is basically the same one today. Subtract Kane, add Solanke, fine... I'm glad that after a year they decided to sign Kane's replacement.
Being more direct or seeking to dominate are fine but in total, the entire recipe is the same as the one that didn't work last year when we were grateful to finish 5th.
Are we to believe Ange is going to turn water into wine now, absent any signs of progress last year? With all the same faces? That doesn't seem sensible.
It seems far more likely that his seat will be warming progressively and we'll all be brawling in October once again about whether Ange is wrong for the job or he's yet another manager who hasn't been backed adequately.
This truly is purgatory...
Just ordered a t shirtThis would make a great pin badge.
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