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Manager Ange Postecoglou

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Was sacking Ange a good idea?

  • Yes, I think it was a good idea.

    Votes: 73 64.6%

  • No, I think it was a bad idea.

    Votes: 40 35.4%
  • Total voters
    113
Shadydan said:
Regardless The literal definition of young is totally subjective regardless so we'll be here all day arguing about it so it's a bit pointless going back and forth, my point is though that we aren't flooding the squad exclusively with teens which would be the easy thing to do if your the board who are just looking purely for value and a sure fire way to throw a manager under the bus, as far as I'm concerned that isn't happening, let's be fair in our judgements.
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Well I'm glad you decided to cease strawmanning my overall point by not obsessing over the number 18 anymore. Why do you assume that I exclusively meant teens in the first place? So do you assume that I believe a 20 year old is a senior player? Have you ever heard of an age range ? This transfer window has seen an inordinate number of 18 year olds join, I mention this as part of our youth strategy, not the whole picture, and you assume that I think we won't sign anyone who's above drinking age. Such a weird assumption.

To be clear, we do have a strategy of youth and the combined ages of both windows you mention are 100% consistent with that (exceptions and all). This strategy has been explicitly stated by our chairman. His words, not mine. That's an objective fact, not an opinion.

Shadydan said:
Maddison being a 'complete no brainer' due to him being a playmaker of his age is a load of nonsense and you know it, the bottom line is you can protest and give me all these desperate excuses all you want at the end of the day we signed a player in his prime, if not coming into his prime at 26 years of age - we also made him our 2nd highest paid player and out vice captain...so much for project 'yout dem' hey...
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So you find an exception to the strategy and you think that invalidates the entire thing? Are you a child? Call it mental gymnastics, I don't care, there are obvious positions where you still need experience (and a 26 year old is far from a grandad footballer). That does not mean an overall strategy doesn't exist. It's like arguing there is no such thing as two genders because intersex exists.. it's juvenile reasoning.

Shadydan said:
Eh? What does this have to do with the price of fish lmao
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You: Ange didn't have an opportunity to genuinely play youth last season
Me: Cites Phillips vs Royal
You: *proceeds to talk about fish*
Shadydan said:
And not even the likes of Klopp or Arteta had that sort of autonomy on players until they could be trusted, they only really got to start picking their own players when they were in after a certain amount of time anyway,
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Shadydan said:
Arteta? Haha The guy literally missed out on his first choice targets in Caicedo, Mudryk, Zubimendi, Buendia and Mason Mount - what are you talking about? 😆 And like I said before comparing us to Arse and Arteta to Ange is such a massive false equivalence anyway:

Before the Rice transfer Arteta had to prove to his club that he could firstly improve his players which he did therefore he has bought value directly back into the club...like for example if Arse were to sell Saka, Saliba and Martinelli they could legit ask for over £200m.
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Missing out on your first choices doesn't invalidate that they were indeed your choices. You say I'm making a false equivalence but did you choose to ignore this or did you miss it:

"If you think Levy is capable of backing any human-being besides himself then you're barking up the wrong tree. Never has, never will"

The whole point of my post was that I don't believe Levy ever backs his managers, ever. So anyones suggestion that he is currently doing so or ever has is incorrect in my opinion. I actually agree with you on the point about earning trust which emphasises the fact that Ange has simply been given the final say and not the right to curate the shortlist along side his DOF (no shit about this being the modern hierarchical structure). This is not backing for me, sorry I just don't subscribe to the illusion of choice.

You make my point for me by mentioning Klopp and Arteta. Once they earnt their stripes they got exactly what they desired. Karius botched the champions league final, Liverpool narrowly miss out on the league - get rid of that guy and go get me the best keeper and defender that money can buy. Arteta gets 8th 8th 5th and 2nd twice in a row and they push the boat out for him to finally get over the hump. Poch gets 5th, 3rd, 2nd, 4th, a champions league final, publicly states the new stadium needs "new furniture" and what does he get? First, a job title change then the sack.
 
Much better today.

A caveat that we probably played the worst side in the league, or one of them.

Much bigger tests to come. However it was comprehensive.

Next Sunday will tell us far more about where we are.

Ange's blind spot for Johnson is truly baffling.
 
I love days like this.

For the last week we've been inundated with doomsday scenarios, right up until kick off. Now it's...
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Long may this continue.

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Postecoglou

I think we have spent wisely. The players we have brought in are going to be fantastic for this club. We will see [about more deals]. There are still a couple of players we will look to move on. We will stay alert."

Me.

Bo!!ocks to that. We need to bring in a couple of players full stop.
 
Jarritos said:
Well I'm glad you decided to cease strawmanning my overall point by not obsessing over the number 18 anymore. Why do you assume that I exclusively meant teens in the first place? So do you assume that I believe a 20 year old is a senior player? Have you ever heard of an age range ? This transfer window has seen an inordinate number of 18 year olds join, I mention this as part of our youth strategy, not the whole picture, and you assume that I think we won't sign anyone who's above drinking age. Such a weird assumption.
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Haha mate - You're telling me I strawmanned your overall point - Those were your frigging words mate, you chose those words and I can only go by what you said and you still haven't even clarified what you perceive young to be.

You talk about age range, what range? Between 16-21? 16-23? 16-26? What am I meant to go by...? When you're vague like this you should probably expect people to assume what you're talking about, there's nothing weird about something it especially if you struggle to clarify what you actually mean in the first place.

But again this is a subjective argument, what young and experienced is can be different to what we perceive, there's no black and white answer - you said my definition is off...no, it's just a definition you happen to disagree with.

Jarritos said:
To be clear, we do have a strategy of youth and the combined ages of both windows you mention are 100% consistent with that (exceptions and all). This strategy has been explicitly stated by our chairman. His words, not mine. That's an objective fact, not an opinion.
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Thank you for clarifying sir :thumbup:

Jarritos said:
So you find an exception to the strategy and you think that invalidates the entire thing? Are you a child? Call it mental gymnastics, I don't care, there are obvious positions where you still need experience (and a 26 year old is far from a grandad footballer). That does not mean an overall strategy doesn't exist. It's like arguing there is no such thing as two genders because intersex exists.. it's juvenile reasoning.
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Mate please stop, you can't present an argument saying the the board aren't buying players for the manager and ignore a player like Maddison who is one of the best in his position in the PL and put him on £170k a week...That's a pretty fucking big exception lmao And you dressing it up as a no brainer signing is neither here nor there, we still fucking signed the guy. Yes well done you need experience playing as playmaker, you also need exp playing as a CB, as a 6 etc, absolute cobblers lol
Jarritos said:
You: Ange didn't have an opportunity to genuinely play youth last season
Me: Cites Phillips vs Royal
You: *proceeds to talk about fish*
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Yeah you're gonna have to do better than this mate because if you genuinely expected Ashley Phillips an 18 year old who didn't have a minute of Premier League football to play up against Haaland and Watkins then I think we need put those happy pills down, btw the way Ashley Phillips went to Plymouth in Jan and whilst he did well overall he wasn't consistent and showed that he clearly wasn't ready for top level football so we'll just park that argument there shall we?
Jarritos said:
Missing out on your first choices doesn't invalidate that they were indeed your choices. You say I'm making a false equivalence but did you choose to ignore this or did you miss it:

"If you think Levy is capable of backing any human-being besides himself then you're barking up the wrong tree. Never has, never will"

The whole point of my post was that I don't believe Levy ever backs his managers, ever. So anyones suggestion that he is currently doing so or ever has is incorrect in my opinion. I actually agree with you on the point about earning trust which emphasises the fact that Ange has simply been given the final say and not the right to curate the shortlist along side his DOF (no shit about this being the modern hierarchical structure). This is not backing for me, sorry I just don't subscribe to the illusion of choice.
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And the whole point of my post which you willfully ignoring is that according to your logic not one chairman backs their manager then, if other clubs with higher profiles and more money than us are missing out on their first choices then maybe, just maybe that's a football thing and not a Tottenham thing.

Yes I got your point, you don't believe that Levy backs his managers but like I said it's a false statement because you don't actually know what his managers wants so it's a nothing argument...🤷‍♂️
Jarritos said:
You make my point for me by mentioning Klopp and Arteta. Once they earnt their stripes they got exactly what they desired. Karius botched the champions league final, Liverpool narrowly miss out on the league - get rid of that guy and go get me the best keeper and defender that money can buy. Arteta gets 8th 8th 5th and 2nd twice in a row and they push the boat out for him to finally get over the hump. Poch gets 5th, 3rd, 2nd, 4th, a champions league final, publicly states the new stadium needs "new furniture" and what does he get? First, a job title change then the sack.
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Poch got Ndombele and Lo Celso and Sessegnon his first choice targets and the irony is that they all flopped.

Besides all that despite Levy not really 100% supporting him when he was here we had 0 money in the main so comparing that situation to Woolwich's and Liverpool's is a bit of a false equivalence - You gotta stop doing those mate.
 
I like that he used Kulusevski and Maddison in the middle today, with Bissouma as the anchor. If Ange is gonna do it his way, he may as well pick the best footballers to try and execute it.

I still am unconvinced that Angeball is the way, the teams at the top are very solid with defensive players in defensive positions. But if we can perform in the next couple of games, i might become a believer yet. Two really tough fixtures ahead.
 
Shadydan said:
The funny thing is, we played pretty much the same against Leicester, we just didn't put the game to bed when we had chances.
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Yup, just watched the full game.

I didn't think we were particularly brilliant, nor particularly bad, we just had quite a few spells where we turned it on and took the chances we created.

It's just really nice to come on here and share the happiness of a convincing win, while the usuals go into hibernation for a bit.
 
Shadydan said:
But my friend I'm going by your own definition because you said this:



🤷‍♂️ I'm sorry unless I'm mistaken you are citing project yout dem as and cited 18 year olds being in the team and you're citing our academy players who are in fact...teens so I think you need to pick an argument here and just stick with it.

Regardless The literal definition of young is totally subjective regardless so we'll be here all day arguing about it so it's a bit pointless going back and forth, my point is though that we aren't flooding the squad exclusively with teens which would be the easy thing to do if your the board who are just looking purely for value and a sure fire way to throw a manager under the bus, as far as I'm concerned that isn't happening, let's be fair in our judgements.



Okay you can have Werner and Vicario fine but I'm not having the rest of your mental gymnastics, sorry.

Maddison being a 'complete no brainer' due to him being a playmaker of his age is a load of nonsense and you know it, the bottom line is you can protest and give me all these desperate excuses all you want at the end of the day we signed a player in his prime, if not coming into his prime at 26 years of age - we also made him our 2nd highest paid player and out vice captain...so much for project 'yout dem' hey...


Eh? What does this have to do with the price of fish lmao



As is every manager in the Premier League and the vast majority of clubs in world football, welcome to the real world.

Like every manager for the most part don't get to pick their players mate, this isn't the 90s anymore they're not going out there and picking players themselves...the way football clubs operate particularly within a DOF structure they will have a philosophy that operates within a certain means and will hire a manager to fit that exact philosophy , that's literally how it's meant to work hence why we bought in Lange to maintain those standards and work the coach on what type of player he wants.

And not even the likes of Klopp or Arteta had that sort of autonomy on players until they could be trusted, they only really got to start picking their own players when they were in after a certain amount of time anyway, you ever hear the story of Klopp wanting Julian Brandt and Michael Edwards choosing Salah over him and they fell out? Klopp didn't choose Van Dijk or Allison by the way - that was all Edwards...in fact the moment that Edwards left Liverpool gave Klopp autonomy and they bought in duds like Nunez and Gakpo and started to plateau, go figure...



Arteta? Haha The guy literally missed out on his first choice targets in Caicedo, Mudryk, Zubimendi, Buendia and Mason Mount - what are you talking about? 😆 And like I said before comparing us to Arse and Arteta to Ange is such a massive false equivalence anyway:

Before the Rice transfer Arteta had to prove to his club that he could firstly improve his players which he did therefore he has bought value directly back into the club...like for example if Arse were to sell Saka, Saliba and Martinelli they could legit ask for over £200m.

Also Arse have shown gradual improvement every season and he had them in a title challenge - basically he has gained trust from his bosses...like he would never have been able to get Rice in his 2nd season which Ange is in now, he's in year 4 so until Ange can prove the above which he needs to he isn't going to get that sort of autonomy and backing regardless.
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What
 
Murphy said:
Johnson has started the season terribly, there's no question but the hatred for him is well overblown. He has limitations as a footballer but things would have been even worse had he not contributed last year.

He's got to be taken out of the firing line.
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Newcastle will be interesting because Solanke will be back or Richy will be fit to start.

I suspect Ange will start Odobert but if he keeps Johnson for the pressing I wouldn’t be shocked.
 
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