The same Nuno who has Forest near top of the league? Sweet, we’ve got a good one then.
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Manager Ange Postecoglou
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Does PPG really work with a small sample size? Blokes been here one and a bit seasons.
And no I’m not trying to discount it, I just mean in terms of look at each manager after maybe two consecutive seasons for it to really show something and give a clearer picture.
If we sacked Ange and brought in a new manager tomorrow who wins his first match it’s like raving that as a manager he’s got a hundred per cent record.
On a side note, I thought he got his team spot on last night. We need to try and win something and that’s going to mean using our best players. We’re not close to City’s quality even when they drop down to their second team.
I’m not buying the “they played the kids and it was only the carabao” anymore than I’m buying the “he’s won 8 of the last 10… including Coventry, Ferenvaceros and Quarabag” stuff, but last night I thought he got it right.
And no I’m not trying to discount it, I just mean in terms of look at each manager after maybe two consecutive seasons for it to really show something and give a clearer picture.
If we sacked Ange and brought in a new manager tomorrow who wins his first match it’s like raving that as a manager he’s got a hundred per cent record.
On a side note, I thought he got his team spot on last night. We need to try and win something and that’s going to mean using our best players. We’re not close to City’s quality even when they drop down to their second team.
I’m not buying the “they played the kids and it was only the carabao” anymore than I’m buying the “he’s won 8 of the last 10… including Coventry, Ferenvaceros and Quarabag” stuff, but last night I thought he got it right.
After 9 games of the 15/16 season, we'd only lost once (1-0 on mw1 away at Old Trafford to an own goal)
We also had 1 more point than now.
We weren't great that early in that season, but we weren't "shitter"
We were actually better and harder to beat.
Yet he was and still is far more capable of tangible "success" at Spurs.
A motivated Conte would have this set of players in the top 4 ahead of Villa, Chelsea, Newcastle etc comfortably.
Ange won't.
Mate, I wouldn't. Only one reason someone would come in here and be all grumpy after beating City and progressing to a cup QF.
He made some smart moves yesterday and outsmarted Pep.
It's not out of question that we can win a trophy this season. Maybe Ange is a cup specialist but not so well suited for a long grind in the league.
It's not out of question that we can win a trophy this season. Maybe Ange is a cup specialist but not so well suited for a long grind in the league.
Those stats aren't telling the whole story because the managers served for different lengths of time. Bill Nick was our manager for 16 years which is why his PPG is a lot less than Conte's who only served for 15 months. He also managed in an era when teams were only awarded 2 points for a win.
Poch 1.91
Sherwood 1.9
Conte 1.88
AVB 1.83
Redknapp 1.74
Mourinho 1.68
Ange 1.68
Nuno 1.5
Jol 1.5
Ramos 1.17
Rowe 1.63
Nicholson 1.62
Burkinshaw 1.45
Hoddle 1.28
Ossie 1.15
Dirty secret: Mourinho was our best goals per match across all competitions since Nicholson.
Fair play. That was a good response to Palace, first 30 minutes was excellent, as was the recovery in the 2nd half. As ever the question is can we follow it up?
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The PPG is a funny one because Anges stats are so heavily titled to the first 10 of last season. For example the last 20 league games he has the same amount of points (26) as Ossie Ardiles had in his last 20 league games. Bless Ossie, sublime player, great guy but probably our worst manager of modern times. That trajectory does matter.
To sort of back that up a bit Christian Gross had 27 pts from his last 20 league games.
To sort of back that up a bit Christian Gross had 27 pts from his last 20 league games.
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The thing is what ever manager we get we are going to need to give them time , there is no instant success these days - The times where you could just buy they league like City and Chelsea and even United did back in the 90's are over - the PL is the most competitive , financially sound league in the world - yet some fans still expect us to sign every player who looks good on You Tube and a new manager to come in and win every game while playing fluid attacking football!
I'm not saying Ange will be successful here, however I'd rather give the guy who wants to play good football a go, I still do think that if we had improved on the likes of Richie and Timo then we would be a lot closer to City and Pool at the top of the league , I guess on the other side of the coin could say a manager should play to our strengths , however Ange has won every where he has been playing his football - why would he change now - its literally Do or Die and I really admire that!
TLDR - Whoever we get in we are going to need to give them a couple of seasons bare minimum.
Considering starting point for context (PPG and GD in the 38 league games before they took over):
AVB 1.94 (1.82, +25)
Conte 1.89 (1.47, +4)
Ange: 1.68 (1.58, +7)
Mourinho: 1.66 (1.52, +19)
Pochettino 1.66 (1.82, +4)
Redknapp 1.66 (1.11, +0)
Of course there's transfer windows to consider too.
I'm now sat wondering why we sacked AVB but seem to remember it being inevitable at the time.
why u not listing the legend christian gross
Poch 1.91
Sherwood 1.9
Conte 1.88
AVB 1.83
Redknapp 1.74
Mourinho 1.68
Ange 1.68
Nuno 1.5
Jol 1.5
Ramos 1.17
Rowe 1.63
Nicholson 1.62
Burkinshaw 1.45
Hoddle 1.28
Ossie 1.15
Dirty secret: Mourinho was our best goals per match across all competitions since Nicholson.
Who is that I’m comparison to when you say Modern era? All Premier league managers?
I’d look at this game and say if we lose we could be in the bottom half of the table having lost more games than we have won this season. And be 8 points behind a rival for top 4 with our hardest months of fixtures coming up.
Yet we seem to be skirting between greatness and mediocrity somehow if you read comments on here.
Hopefully November and December we really kick on starting Sunday.
So what?
You can't just ignore points because they don't fit in to a narrative.
His last 10 games were as shit as his first were good so let's just ignore them all and look at the middle 18 then?
A lot of fans on here seem to fall into a narrative that every defeat is Ange's fault and every win is an Ange masterclass. The truth is somewhere in the middle, and we need to stop this reactionary approach where your judging Ange solely on the last result. It was overly negative on Monday and its overly positive today.
Lets judge him in May and not freak out at every bump in the road
Lets judge him in May and not freak out at every bump in the road
The point is managers dont get sacked on what they did 15 months ago. Every single manager gets sacked because of recent results over 10, 20, 30 games and his recent results over 20 league games are as bad or worse than every Tottenham manager who has been sacked for the last 40 or so years apart from Juande Ramos.
PPG is such a crap metric. If it mattered Tim Sherwood or AVB would still be our manager and Bill Nic and Keith Burkinshaw would have been sacked years before they left
Thats not to say i'd sack him, just pointing out that recent league form is really poor. Last night has bought him some time. Didnt you say if we dont get at least 10 pts from West Ham, Palace, Villa and Ipswich then serious questions need to be asked?
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Agreed. Ultimately I want him gone because I don't believe in him anymore, but I'm not someone who wants to be proved right, and I'll change my stance if Ange continues to get results and show he knows what he is doing.
I still think our games are too chaotic and I don't see how we will ever be a competitive league side with the way Ange has us set up, which is my main issue with him. We simply can't keep clean sheets and our defence is often all over the place.
If he wins a cup this season and finishes midtable I'd say thanks very much but still move him on.
Fair play for last night though, he got the win. Now let's follow it up with 3 points on Sunday.
He needs to start getting consistent results in the league, and he needs to improve our away form. I won't be changing my mind on him until I see evidence of consistent improvement.
Well the 1890s and 1940s ain't the modern era. Not sure we were even top flight for those seasons.
Looking at stats, Ange has only lost 1 cup game. City last season as Fulham counted as a draw due to pens.
I think everyone needs to step back and not get carried away by the defeats or the victories. Would do everyone a lot of good. Got to be pleased with the wins though and you can only beat (or not) what is put in front of you.
We arent packed with a squad who is used to playing in two high pressure games a week. It is what a lot of fans who's clubs arent in the CL or EL dont get. To perform every game in both competitions at a top level without it dropping is hard, especially when players are swapped in and out.