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Manager Ange Postecoglou

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Was sacking Ange a good idea?

  • Yes, I think it was a good idea.

    Votes: 73 64.6%
  • No, I think it was a bad idea.

    Votes: 40 35.4%

  • Total voters
    113
Ange is
Daily Telegraph article

Sam Wallace
Postecoglou in danger of being Levy sacrifice
There is only one thing more dangerous for embattled Tottenham Hotspur managers than a disgruntled support directing grievances at them – and that is when the same fans turn on Daniel Levy.

The chairman of Spurs, who has piled up 11 major managerial departures on his watch, gets very jumpy when the supporters aim their rage at him. Over and again, Levy has offered up the manager as a sacrifice – and most of the time it works. The anger abates, the world turns. Levy is not a popular man at the club he has run for two decades. But he is still the man who runs it, and that appears to be the priority.

Enter Ange Postecoglou, the manager who came from nowhere – a dreamer of sorts, a high-line absolutist with a troubled countenance. A man who observes the kind of joyfully reckless football he demands of his players with a touchline aspect of stoic forbearance. It can be a strange combination. In his darker moments, Postecoglou can conduct press conferences with the grim resignation of an old Prussian general who has just had the day’s casualty numbers whispered in his ear.

At a loss: Ange Postecoglou on the touchline during Spurs’ 1-0 defeat by Bournemouth
Sometimes one wonders: does Postecoglou know? Surely, he knows. He must know how it ended for all the others, from Glenn Hoddle to Mauricio Pochettino; from Jose Mourinho to Nuno Espirito Santo, who barely seemed to be there at all.

It could all come apart today for Postecoglou, with a supporter base strung out and frazzled on a lifetime of recriminations. Facing Chelsea at home is freighted with all the usual regrets for Spurs. Discounting even the wider picture, which is to say the divergence in the two clubs’ fortunes over the past two decades, there is the divergence in the past two months alone.

Even Chelsea, leveraged up on private equity cash, living in the far margins of the financial control hinterlands, seem to have momentum. Spurs, on the other hand, are back to quarrelling among themselves. Postecoglou confronting his own supporters at Bournemouth on Thursday felt in keeping with the repeating of a story. A story that endures through many managers, and their many approaches – the iron fist, the arm-around-the-shoulder, three at the back, wing-backs. There have been three home stadiums, one Amazon Prime documentary, Harry Kane’s Skechers boot deal. It never changes.
One can understand Postecoglou’s reasons for refusing to back down in the face of that away-support hostility. We know his backstory, which is an uplifting tale of immigration, adversity, and triumph against the odds. The trouble is he thinks this is all about him. But the 21st-century story of Spurs is never about the manager, whoever he might be. It is about Levy. It is always about Levy at Spurs. He has even outlasted the ruthless Caribbean-domiciled billionaire, Joe Lewis, who enabled his rise to chairman. Another managerial career added to the body count is not going to make much difference.

Which is why Postecoglou needs the supporters – and why those same fans wield such power. When they demand the end of Levy and the reign of Spurs’ parent company Enic, what they are actually effecting is managerial change.

Postecoglou, for his part, has never cashed in what would be an entirely reasonable complaint that he lost Kane before he had even coached a game. Son Heung-min, Hugo Lloris’s successor as captain, is 32 and while still outstanding on his day, the day is closer to its end. Spurs spent £100 million on five teenagers in the summer and Postecoglou has owned the decision on behalf of the club without complaint.

With the fans, Postecoglou has been less sure-footed. The nose-to-nose at Bournemouth followed his grim verdict after the Brighton capitulation which added to the despair. He never quite grasped the essence of the debate when the general mood among Spurs supporters was that they did not wish to help Woolwich’s title prospects when they faced Manchester City at the end of last season. Even if that imperilled their own Champions League qualification.

That would have been an easy issue for Postecoglou to leave alone. Postecoglou will know from his time in Glasgow that supporters’ list of priorities can look peculiar from the outside and that often it is best not to ask, or to challenge. They have their reasons, and that is a debate no manager can ever win. What most fans, of any stripe, cannot stand is being told how to define the nature of that support.

Levy’s most successful manager, Pochettino, did not put a trophy on the boardroom table either, but he kept the complaints of the supporters about Levy at bay for longer than any other. At his most strategic, Pochettino created the notion of a manager-chairman partnership with Levy – a bromance sealed over a white-water rafting trip. But, in the end, it was not enough to save him, either.

There is something compelling about what Postecoglou offers. The nature of the approach, and his resolve to live and die by that. But he has to know what he is up against. In this case, a club with supporters who feel permanently at the end of their tether, and a chairman who is committed to keeping them just about on it. The temptation for any Spurs manager is to believe that the unique experiences of their life mean that the usual rules of the club do not apply to them. So far, all have been proven wrong.

agree 100%
..he needed the supporters to be on his side- i m sure the no. out there reflects those in here.
unfortunately i won't count myself as one (i.e. Angeball fan) but I still want to see him do well -so that the Club might win something.

///The trouble is he thinks this is all about him. But the 21st-century story of Spurs is never about the manager, whoever he might be. It is about Levy. It is always about Levy at Spurs. /////

i think this hits the nail on the head-- the things he constantly sprouts things about himself- his style of play "we are who we are"...." I always win a trophy in my 2nd years - always"

he doesn't do himself any justice - maybe he should at least do the his fans some "favours" by getting on their side.
 
His resume was that uninspiring that even Celtic fans were talking about how baffled they were by his appointment when he first got there. Essentially, pre-2021 he wasn't even considered good enough to manage Celtic. Celtic and Tottenham are worlds apart, no matter how poorly managed you think this club is. A manager considered underqualified to even manage Celtic does not suddenly become qualified to manage Tottenham just because he won a treble there. That's absurd.

Celtic took a gamble on him. It worked out fine for them. We took a -totally unjustified- gamble on him. It hasn't worked out for us. It's not that complicated. No need to double-down on this Ange experiment.
 
I think my biggest concern with Ange is his tactical stubbornness, especially with the full-backs. Pushing them so high and so central makes it much harder for us to play, it just isn't worth it at the moment. It's destroying our players legs to have to make huge recovery runs every time we give the ball away in the middle of the pitch.

Of course he has his own idea of football and he sticks to it, every successful manager does that. But when you're 60 years old and your ideas are not surviving contact with their first exposure to the elite level, you have to adjust.

We have players that look best playing on the break and attacking space. That is not new to Ange, that was also the case under Conte and Mou. We have always been a top counter-attacking side with Son in the team. When we aren't given the opportunity to counter-attack, I'm not sure that Ange's tactics actually work. In fact I'm almost certain they don't.

agree. I have never been a fan of angeball from day-0. Reckon its suicidal /nuts after last season's Chelsea game where we lost 4-1 but some other fans seem to want ange-ball & the super high line as they say we have been sitting back far too much during the conte/mourinho era,
 
His resume was that uninspiring that even Celtic fans were talking about how baffled they were by his appointment when he first got there. Essentially, pre-2021 he wasn't even considered good enough to manage Celtic. Celtic and Tottenham are worlds apart, no matter how poorly managed you think this club is. A manager considered underqualified to even manage Celtic does not suddenly become qualified to manage Tottenham just because he won a treble there. That's absurd.

Celtic took a gamble on him. It worked out fine for them. We took a -totally unjustified- gamble on him. It hasn't worked out for us. It's not that complicated. No need to double-down on this Ange experiment.
Patient soul aren't you?
 
WHAT IF:

AngeBall is the the cause of all our woes --> injuries / conceding soft goals/ useless possession /not-scoring /players morale plummeting becaus they're shit playing it
 
There was a brilliant comment made by a poster several pages back "Ange's Plan B is to do Plan A better" That sums it up for me.
You can bully teams in Aus, Japan and Scotland but it won't work in the PL, There was a camera shot of Ange in the first half on Thursday where he just stood there shaking his head, I think he knows he's been sussed and being the stubborn guy he is, I don't think he can or will change. Why should he change you may ask and its a fair comment. I don't want him to change, I just want him to adapt,
Take Brighton, we are two up at half time away. You know they are going to come out blazing so why not shut up shop for 15/20 mins and keep the lead. No, we come out with Angeball, they score and the wheels come off.
I know TFC is a microcosm of support but he has lost some on here, I'm not sure he hasn't lost some players (Madders ?) the media are on to this and it will only end one way
Anyway 7.0 Spurs today

Please
 
I wonder if Ange really is losing the dressing room? I don’t see a team that is playing well together, I got the impression that Madders and Ange were having problems, is there a personal between him and Spence, I know Ange to be an arrogant type ……
 
Football cannot be simplified to such basic principles.

A truly exceptional manager is someone who makes a team more than the sum of their parts. He does not try and repeatedly force square pegs into round holes. He tinkers with his setup, adjusting the position of those holes, to maximise what he has at his disposal. Overtime, if he is lucky, he gets the type of players that can accommodate his more natural approach.

You can be a perfectly attacking, aggressive team without repeatedly making the same mistakes. To require, for example, Dragusin and Ben Davies to play the ball out from the back is silly. They are not good enough to do it. You have someone drop back and help them. You support the individuals in the team and give them confidence, rather than hanging them out to dry.
This is exactly where the muppet went wrong at Man U and how we all laughed at him and were sad when he got the boot
 
If that's a marker of success then we should go all in for Steve Gerrard who won it for Rangers after a 9 year drought and who's success wasn't replicated after he left.
Do you think that's a good thing for the club?

I don't.

I saw the post-match press conference and I heard him say the opposite. He said that he could have fought to keep Kane (for one year) but that wasn't the right decision. He also said some very interesting things. If you didn't watch it I think you should do it now.
 
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If Ange goes in Dec/Jan (although I doubt it will happen), no harm in giving Potter (no compo - Daniel would like that), a short term contract until the summer, whilst the club look for a longer term candidate to come in during the summer.

If Potter gets us top 4 or a cup + top 6, might consider giving him a longer contract in the summer.
 
If Ange goes in Dec/Jan (although I doubt it will happen), no harm in giving Potter (no compo - Daniel would like that), a short term contract until the summer, whilst the club look for a longer term candidate to come in during the summer.

If Potter gets us top 4 or a cup + top 6, might consider giving him a longer contract in the summer.

Potter or Frank for me, of managers I am aware of but neither are taking the job on a short-term basis.
 
If Ange goes in Dec/Jan (although I doubt it will happen), no harm in giving Potter (no compo - Daniel would like that), a short term contract until the summer, whilst the club look for a longer term candidate to come in during the summer.

If Potter gets us top 4 or a cup + top 6, might consider giving him a longer contract in the summer.

As much as I don’t think Potter would work for us, the bloke has done enough, and is worth enough that there’s no way he’s accepting a temporary “let’s see how you get on till Summer” contract.
 
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