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Manager Ange Postecoglou

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Was sacking Ange a good idea?

  • Yes, I think it was a good idea.

    Votes: 73 64.6%
  • No, I think it was a bad idea.

    Votes: 40 35.4%

  • Total voters
    113
alot of good work from pape sarr in those clips, his form has been toilet this season.

also the energy is much higher, lots of sprints. We needed to sign a ton of players in the summer to keep the system ticking over
It has.

Too many seem to see this as some sort of unfortunate fluke, and would you believe it, Ange is just so unlucky that along with so many of his players succumbing to injury, the rest are all suffering from a crater in form, and all at the same time too!

Fact is that form will always fluctuate, but if it's plummeted deep into the shitter, for almost the entire squad, there's usually an underlying reason.

Lack of any sort of base to build from, lack of tactics, lack of any organised rotation to get through the dips, all down to one man.

Instead we continue to run players into the ground at times when there are alternatives, then unceremoniously hook players at half time when we're losing again.

Oh, and then dig out the class dunce for flunking his exam, whilst the rest who also failed are not mentioned.
 
This guy needs to be studied for science, honestly.

The mental gymnastics people online will do to convince themselves that he’s actually a great coach hamstrung by absolutely everything the world can throw at him, despite every single piece of evidence that whilst yes, there is some mitigation for us being SO bad, the main factor is, he just isn’t a good football manager is actually genuinely quite impressive.

I’m actually genuinely impressed people have bought into him to this level.

Part of me does empathise with some of those who would like Ange to be given more time, because our manager merry-go-round has been exhausting, but the "Ange In forever" crowd (some on twitter actually use that as their call to action) is baffling.
 
Redknapp was just a kick about with talented players. As soon as we played anyone organized we ended up seeing none of the ball. Loved it because it had character but it wasn’t better.

Poch had better counter attacks than anyone in the league but it was like watching Rugby at times. We used to kick it out of play in their half so we could press them. We really had no ideas or patterns if Eriksen didn’t find a pass.
I don't know what you're seeing that I'm not, but to me it seems like we have all of the negatives you're listing about Poch/Redknapp, without any of the positives.

We have no organisation like you point at Redknapp, but we're not only coming up short against the better clubs, it's everyone, we make everyone bar Southampton look organised.

Under Poch no ideas or patterns if Eriksen didn't find a pass, well under Ange there is the same problem just no Eriksen at all.

I find it difficult to credit Ange for any of the positives we have seen during his time, because to me it just looks like a disorganised rabble that had enough natural talent threat occasionally it just clicks. If any of that were down to coaching/management then you'd expect to see more and more consistently good stuff. Under Ange over the entire time, the bad far outweighs the good.

And it's not even about the results, we're getting the results our play deserves, not playing well and being unlucky.
 
One thing being optimistic, another being totally naive. I love attacking football but not without the backing of a half-decent defence.
Also, as already mentioned, Poch and 'Arry 's teams were much more entertaining and managed a few wins too.
I really wanted Ange to succeed but his tenure has turned out to be a total nightmare, time to wake up before it's too late.

I think it’s all about recency and nostalgia. Right now we are getting beaten by awful teams so everything feels terrible. I’m not here to argue that.

But Ange ball at its best, as hard as that is to remember atm, was better to watch than both H and Poch imo. The thing is, the way we played under Redknapp and Poch was much more robust and there’s no chance we’d be seeing some of these recent results under them. Injuries or no injuries.
 
If something sounds too good to be true then it probably is. You'd always be better off erring on the side of caution, this makes you neither pessimistic nor cynical.

A guy who had spent 20 something years in obscurity before being appointed by Celtic, an appointment that even their fans scorned at by the way, wasn't going to take the biggest league in the world by storm just because he won a treble in Scotland. The most realistic assesment of Ange has always been that he was just another victim of Peter principle, not that he was some kind of a hidden gem that was going to revolutionize the game of football at the ripe age of 60.

Cheering for the underdog might give some people a sense of moral superiority, but there's no virtue in living in cloud cuckoo land. Nor is it praiseworthy to choose a total stranger as your hill to die on just because you've already invested so much time, effort, and personal pride in him.
 
I was very much there. Was at WHL, Wembley, Boxing Day games, never used to miss a minute back then.

People can have a different opinion without being delusional or ahistorical
They can but I just find it astonishing anyone sentient can come to those conclusions. Nothing personal but I just don't see the thinking behind this at all.

I just find it amazing people see anything in Ange at this stage given what I see as mountains of evidence to the contrary.

Where we are aligned, I think, is on the role of Levy in all of this.
 
Ange I think is a good coach. He does have tactics and ideas, they're just not suitable for this level in some instances. Maybe more than some.

The problem he has is his game theory will lead to mistakes being made. The bigger problem is that has the players get better mistakes are punished more often. And he's at the big show now where even the lowest ranked team has the ability to punish your mistakes.

Along with a few other things is the flaw in the system. Funny thing is he could sensible change things up and still keep most of what he's built over his years.

Stubborn to the point of self defeat isn't a good trait. I think if he gets shit canned he'll one day have some regrets about this period of time. I think he should've been on to these problems a long time back.
 
They can but I just find it astonishing anyone sentient can come to those conclusions. Nothing personal but I just don't see the thinking behind this at all.

I just find it amazing people see anything in Ange at this stage given what I see as mountains of evidence to the contrary.

Where we are aligned, I think, is on the role of Levy in all of this.

Football is a funny old game mate.

Never exactly as it seems.
 
People say we lose to “anyone organized” I don’t really see any pattern other than our own energy levels. We’ve beaten and been beaten by all different types of team. From Liverpool and City to Leicester and Southampton.

The only real pattern I see is that we play a high risk, high reward style that relies on physical domination. When we can’t dominate the front third with our press and give the ball away with sloppy passes, we look way too easy to play through. When we can dominate teams physically, we suffocate them and give up very very little.

In practice there’s really not a lot difference to the way city play and the issues they had this season when they struggled physically.

Ange’s issue is not having no ideas, it’s that he’s stubborn about sticking to one idea.

The pattern I see is numerous teams finding us easy to play against because all you have to do is sit in, let us run very high up the pitch toward you and if you play out, you’re in.

The problem is, as you say, we like to physically dominate teams, but this is why it’s basically moron ball at this point, because everyone else has worked this out and they know we have nothing else to offer. You don’t have to physically dominate us, you have to out think us, we’ve lost 13 out of 23 games this season, lots of people out think us. Villa and City are the only teams in the top half we’ve beaten this season.

A team like Southampton, low on confidence, losing to let’s face it basically everyone. We can go there and we can dominate them because they’re so bereft of any real care at this point because they know they’re long gone. Look at the teams we have actually dominated, in the most part it’s the poorer teams, and once we’ve scored one, because they’re poor, we’ve gone on to grab a few. It’s buffed our goal difference stats well because a lot of our goals have come when we’ve scored 3 or 4 against a poor team.

It isn’t as simple as because we can’t physically dominate, it’s when we come up against managers who have actually thought about it. If you basically get your team to sit a little deeper, and just wait we will give you chances all day long. We will get high up the field and then tap it about in front of the box, defend well and eventually someone tries a wild pass which is cut out. Problem is, everyone except a CB and maybe whoever is given the death knell of playing as the 6 that day are all that stands between the other team and our keeper. One decent pass and you’re away.

You’re right, a lot of our game relies on us trying to be physically dominant. Even that though isn’t well set up, if you watch us press, we actually do it in a very disorganised way, teams play along their back line and Son, for instance, goes running after them, as the ball gets moved away from him, you then see Solanke do the same, until it moves over to Johnson who follows suit. Problem is, very often you see that they don’t press together. They press solo onto whoever has the ball, the play gets moved around and quite often teams simply play out. So our press is knackering our players out because there’s no support, it makes the opposition think quickly, but doesn’t result in them ceding possession as often as it should because our disorganised way of pressing leaves gaps to play through.

The bigger problem is that whilst this is happening in front of them, our midfield are basically told to stand high up the pitch as well. So when our disorganised press is beaten, there’s this huge green square in behind us which is why we so often see strikers with the ball in our area, and up to about 20 yards out and our nearest defender is sprinting after them from some ridiculous position.

We DO struggle against organised teams because they can see that all we have is our managers ‘principle’. There’s not a lot there to suggest they have really been coached into how to do it properly, they just do it as if they read what he’s after on a post it note so there’s no cohesion to us.

You can watch basically any of our games, numerous times you see groups of our players caught in one part of the field, numerous times you see three or four attackers running into deep, open spaces behind our defence on transitions.

A lot of our fans have been conned into thinking that we play this cavalier attacking football because there’s lots of goals in our games, we don’t, we play school playground football which originally shocked everyone for the first ten games (and even then it struggled against real quality such as Liverpool) however after those ten games the league basically said “oh… that really is it, that is literally all they do” and simply adapted. We play poorly coached, poorly thought out, poorly executed football and this is why we have lost the majority of our games. All we want to do is bully teams, and we’ve only managed it seven (seven!) times this season.
 
The pattern I see is numerous teams finding us easy to play against because all you have to do is sit in, let us run very high up the pitch toward you and if you play out, you’re in.

The problem is, as you say, we like to physically dominate teams, but this is why it’s basically moron ball at this point, because everyone else has worked this out and they know we have nothing else to offer. You don’t have to physically dominate us, you have to out think us, we’ve lost 13 out of 23 games this season, lots of people out think us. Villa and City are the only teams in the top half we’ve beaten this season.

A team like Southampton, low on confidence, losing to let’s face it basically everyone. We can go there and we can dominate them because they’re so bereft of any real care at this point because they know they’re long gone. Look at the teams we have actually dominated, in the most part it’s the poorer teams, and once we’ve scored one, because they’re poor, we’ve gone on to grab a few. It’s buffed our goal difference stats well because a lot of our goals have come when we’ve scored 3 or 4 against a poor team.

It isn’t as simple as because we can’t physically dominate, it’s when we come up against managers who have actually thought about it. If you basically get your team to sit a little deeper, and just wait we will give you chances all day long. We will get high up the field and then tap it about in front of the box, defend well and eventually someone tries a wild pass which is cut out. Problem is, everyone except a CB and maybe whoever is given the death knell of playing as the 6 that day are all that stands between the other team and our keeper. One decent pass and you’re away.

You’re right, a lot of our game relies on us trying to be physically dominant. Even that though isn’t well set up, if you watch us press, we actually do it in a very disorganised way, teams play along their back line and Son, for instance, goes running after them, as the ball gets moved away from him, you then see Solanke do the same, until it moves over to Johnson who follows suit. Problem is, very often you see that they don’t press together. They press solo onto whoever has the ball, the play gets moved around and quite often teams simply play out. So our press is knackering our players out because there’s no support, it makes the opposition think quickly, but doesn’t result in them ceding possession as often as it should because our disorganised way of pressing leaves gaps to play through.

The bigger problem is that whilst this is happening in front of them, our midfield are basically told to stand high up the pitch as well. So when our disorganised press is beaten, there’s this huge green square in behind us which is why we so often see strikers with the ball in our area, and up to about 20 yards out and our nearest defender is sprinting after them from some ridiculous position.

We DO struggle against organised teams because they can see that all we have is our managers ‘principle’. There’s not a lot there to suggest they have really been coached into how to do it properly, they just do it as if they read what he’s after on a post it note so there’s no cohesion to us.

You can watch basically any of our games, numerous times you see groups of our players caught in one part of the field, numerous times you see three or four attackers running into deep, open spaces behind our defence on transitions.

A lot of our fans have been conned into thinking that we play this cavalier attacking football because there’s lots of goals in our games, we don’t, we play school playground football which originally shocked everyone for the first ten games (and even then it struggled against real quality such as Liverpool) however after those ten games the league basically said “oh… that really is it, that is literally all they do” and simply adapted. We play poorly coached, poorly thought out, poorly executed football and this is why we have lost the majority of our games. All we want to do is bully teams, and we’ve only managed it seven (seven!) times this season.
Perfect. And that's why we kill keep on losing. Levy is deluded again to let Ange play the semi against Liverpool, we are getting absolutely smashed against tem.
 
The pattern I see is numerous teams finding us easy to play against because all you have to do is sit in, let us run very high up the pitch toward you and if you play out, you’re in.

The problem is, as you say, we like to physically dominate teams, but this is why it’s basically moron ball at this point, because everyone else has worked this out and they know we have nothing else to offer. You don’t have to physically dominate us, you have to out think us, we’ve lost 13 out of 23 games this season, lots of people out think us. Villa and City are the only teams in the top half we’ve beaten this season.

A team like Southampton, low on confidence, losing to let’s face it basically everyone. We can go there and we can dominate them because they’re so bereft of any real care at this point because they know they’re long gone. Look at the teams we have actually dominated, in the most part it’s the poorer teams, and once we’ve scored one, because they’re poor, we’ve gone on to grab a few. It’s buffed our goal difference stats well because a lot of our goals have come when we’ve scored 3 or 4 against a poor team.

It isn’t as simple as because we can’t physically dominate, it’s when we come up against managers who have actually thought about it. If you basically get your team to sit a little deeper, and just wait we will give you chances all day long. We will get high up the field and then tap it about in front of the box, defend well and eventually someone tries a wild pass which is cut out. Problem is, everyone except a CB and maybe whoever is given the death knell of playing as the 6 that day are all that stands between the other team and our keeper. One decent pass and you’re away.

You’re right, a lot of our game relies on us trying to be physically dominant. Even that though isn’t well set up, if you watch us press, we actually do it in a very disorganised way, teams play along their back line and Son, for instance, goes running after them, as the ball gets moved away from him, you then see Solanke do the same, until it moves over to Johnson who follows suit. Problem is, very often you see that they don’t press together. They press solo onto whoever has the ball, the play gets moved around and quite often teams simply play out. So our press is knackering our players out because there’s no support, it makes the opposition think quickly, but doesn’t result in them ceding possession as often as it should because our disorganised way of pressing leaves gaps to play through.

The bigger problem is that whilst this is happening in front of them, our midfield are basically told to stand high up the pitch as well. So when our disorganised press is beaten, there’s this huge green square in behind us which is why we so often see strikers with the ball in our area, and up to about 20 yards out and our nearest defender is sprinting after them from some ridiculous position.

We DO struggle against organised teams because they can see that all we have is our managers ‘principle’. There’s not a lot there to suggest they have really been coached into how to do it properly, they just do it as if they read what he’s after on a post it note so there’s no cohesion to us.

You can watch basically any of our games, numerous times you see groups of our players caught in one part of the field, numerous times you see three or four attackers running into deep, open spaces behind our defence on transitions.

A lot of our fans have been conned into thinking that we play this cavalier attacking football because there’s lots of goals in our games, we don’t, we play school playground football which originally shocked everyone for the first ten games (and even then it struggled against real quality such as Liverpool) however after those ten games the league basically said “oh… that really is it, that is literally all they do” and simply adapted. We play poorly coached, poorly thought out, poorly executed football and this is why we have lost the majority of our games. All we want to do is bully teams, and we’ve only managed it seven (seven!) times this season.

Woah, that is A LOT of words mate.

I’m sure it was great but I can’t take that long to read that in a meeting without looking at my phone for too long.

I’m sure it was great though
 
This guy needs to be studied for science, honestly.

The mental gymnastics people online will do to convince themselves that he’s actually a great coach hamstrung by absolutely everything the world can throw at him, despite every single piece of evidence that whilst yes, there is some mitigation for us being SO bad, the main factor is, he just isn’t a good football manager is actually genuinely quite impressive.

I’m actually genuinely impressed people have bought into him to this level.
It's his cult that needs studying.
Especially that wally Sim on youtube. Look at his face when he defends Ange.

On here it's faceless nameless people. But you can actually look at him when he says we should keep him after saying we have been shit and that the injuries are because of his style and that he isn't up to a relegation fight. But then finishes it off with "we should keep him and I believe he can turn it around"
That right there is some serious brainwashing. That is some one willing to blow themselves up because they have been totally and utterly convinced by someone to do it. It's insane.
 

View: https://x.com/kizz10_/status/1884056238880874987?s=46&t=fbqxNuG9CT4qTaiJx8mBjg

Big 10 days for Ange. Do or die for his future. Odds are he’s probably a goner but at its best Ange ball is the best football we’ve seen at Spurs in the PL era and it’s not close.

Sure, it’s risky and fragile when everything isn’t clicking and we are a mess atm but when it is, we’ve done it to every level of team and battered them.


I have to say, I admire your optimism (of some sort - I mean you do reckon that more likely or not he'll be gone).
And I agree - these kinds of moves were nice on the eye.

But the thing is - you don't buy a player based on highlight reel.
To me Angeball is tactic equivalent to Ndombele as player - absolutely magnificent while looking at highlights.
At the same time, absolute shocker when the quality is required to be applied over long stretch of time.

There was 10 game run that was exciting, edge-of-the-seat stuff. Unfortunately it has followed up with 5x amount of something very different. And despite adding some important pieces to puzzle (better back-up CB; high-pressing CF; some youth talent) none of these movements and patterns are visible in the games of today. Which absolutely sparks major questions and concerns.
 
Redknapp was just a kick about with talented players. As soon as we played anyone organized we ended up seeing none of the ball. Loved it because it had character but it wasn’t better.

Poch had better counter attacks than anyone in the league but it was like watching Rugby at times. We used to kick it out of play in their half so we could press them. We really had no ideas or patterns if Eriksen didn’t find a pass.
Redknapp had good halves of games but I think there’s a lot of rose tinted specs when people talk about him. Some of the football was woeful but many think its apocryphal to criticise him.

Same with Poch. There were amazing times with both of them but we all moaned that Poch only had one way of playing and couldn’t change his tactics. Once people worked them out and the players started aging he didn’t have a solution.
 
Woah, that is A LOT of words mate.

I’m sure it was great but I can’t take that long to read that in a meeting without looking at my phone for too long.

I’m sure it was great though

Yeah tbf, I typed my thoughts and didn’t realise how long it was getting.

On the plus side though we’ve just acted out Ange ball, you rushed forward and spoke about Anges greatness and the opposition took a bit longer to think about a response. That would have prompted you to counter, but in true Ange style you said you didn’t have time and made a slightly sarcy remark most likely as you headed into the tunnel having to be held back.

Not for the first time this season, it’s a Greek tragedy.
 

View: https://x.com/kizz10_/status/1884056238880874987?s=46&t=fbqxNuG9CT4qTaiJx8mBjg

Big 10 days for Ange. Do or die for his future. Odds are he’s probably a goner but at its best Ange ball is the best football we’ve seen at Spurs in the PL era and it’s not close.

Sure, it’s risky and fragile when everything isn’t clicking and we are a mess atm but when it is, we’ve done it to every level of team and battered them.

But we seem to have completely lost all those patterns of play and discipline.
 
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