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Manager Ange Postecoglou

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Was sacking Ange a good idea?

  • Yes, I think it was a good idea.

    Votes: 73 64.6%
  • No, I think it was a bad idea.

    Votes: 40 35.4%

  • Total voters
    113
Ok, but guys, we focus here on the past a lot.
Let me draw you future scenario from here until the end of season, so we can come back to it later.

First of all - from now until the transfer window, not much will happen.
There will be rabbit out of hat, one player that is most likely not very good fit and just happened to be available will join us. Which will not nearly be enough.

I do not care much about this week results, but overall I think we will get into top 8 in EL.

Now roll on next (domestic cup week) - first of all - Liverpool game. With first half they will score 3-4 goals.
2nd half Slot is cleaver manager - he knows there are lot of games. So he starts subbing on rotation players in 2nd half. We manage to score 1. And then on 88th-92nd we score one more. So Ange can say that "we pushed them really to the limit here, mate. We were really close and created enough, but today it was not our day". Even though team who progresses was clear by 40th minute.

Then Villa game rolls on. Emery knows what is needed to be done. He packs the middle part of the field and turns possession over to us. We run and pass a lot. But twice during the game they find 3-4 passes combinations and score from both. In the end 2:1 or 2:0 win for them. So we are out of both domestic cups and in last 1/3 of EPL table.

Levy pulls the trigger.
Either appoints Mason or more likely someone like Tersic with short term contract (1,5 years or smth).

We see a bounce in league, getting some 2:0 / 3:1 wins against sides lower than us.

In EL we progress from first play-off round and some people start to feel hope.
We go ahead in the 2nd play off round in 2nd round. Just to crumble to the ground in repeat fixture.
So we are out of all cups.

In EPL we end season on 11-13th place.
And it will go down to history as shockingly poor season.

In summer Levy sanctions few reasonable deals, but again inevitably too little to bridge all the needed gaps. We (hopefully) sell Romero in the summer.
Form in league improves, but not enough. Rinse and repeat.

Cool story bro
 
The fact that I can cherry pick any set of dates and numbers to fit MY agenda is exactly my point because I'm doing it consciously to show people who are doing it to fit their own agenda.

Remove sample sizes and there are 3 objective facts to deal with here:

1. Finished 5th last season after replacing Lloris, selling Kane without a replacement, losing Son for a month, losing Maddison and VDV for months, losing Bissouma and Sarr for about a month, and reducing the wage bill from Conte's squad.

2. Having a very poor league season this season. Granted with mitigating factors around injuries and another significant reduction of the wage bill but no doubt should be doing much better in the league.

3. Still in all 3 Cup competitions, 1-0 up in the league cup SF, next round of the EL (hopefully top 8 so straight to R16), only lost 1 game all season outside the league.

You absolutely could sack him for the league form this season. Other managers would have been and I am surprised he hasn't been. I would stick with him because I can filter out all the noise, agendas, and opinions on what is and isn't good football, to see a very promising project that has a great chance to end our trophy drought this season and then go even further than that in the future with some extremely talented young players already bedded in ahead of schedule.

No doubt you are led by your opinion on what is or isn't good football and don't agree on the chance of ending the trophy drought so want him gone. That's fine, different opinions are allowed but people are starting to reach a point where any opinion other than "sack him, he's a fraud" are offensive to them like it's an objective fact that he's certain to fail for the rest of the season. Football, and sport in general, don't work that way. Its never black and white the way people expect it to be.

But that is not really the case, is it?

I mean we can literally look at 100% of his games as Spurs manager and his point return is still not good enough.
Plus there is the factor - more recent sample, the worse it all gets.

Meaning all his games - almost decent.
Last full season (38 games) - pretty poor.
Last half season (19 games) - shocking
last 10 games - worse than words describe.

How is that cherry picking exactly? It is linear trend of regress.
 

‘Lads I know we are literally going to be 16th and actively in a relegation battle where we are losing to our relegation rivals, but oh man we’ve beaten Hoffenheim and *checks notes* some team in Eastern Europe as well as TAMWORTH!!!

Oh and we have a few fantastic results in England’s 2nd domestic cup. That’s definitely enough to keep on a coach who has us 3-0 down to Everton.

Nobody is taking you seriously, these arguments aren’t serious. They’re just dumb.
 
But that is not really the case, is it?

I mean we can literally look at 100% of his games as Spurs manager and his point return is still not good enough.
Plus there is the factor - more recent sample, the worse it all gets.

Meaning all his games - almost decent.
Last full season (38 games) - pretty poor.

Finished 5th


Last half season (19 games) - shocking

Cherry picking.

last 10 games - worse than words describe.

Cherry picking again.
 
I don't even get enjoyment when we score tbh.
When we went 1 up Vs Newcastle I barely flinched. I had a Spurs supporting Geordie sat next to and she was over the moon. She asked why I wasn't cheering. I just said "i'll wait for VAR"
Truth is a bit of that as it was close and also that going 1 up in the first few minutes means absolutely nothing.

I didn't even cheer the first 3 goals against City. Only the 4th made it feel safe :roflmao:
Same, VAR shares the blame for that one then, can't get too worked up knowing that there's a chance that 60 seconds later you'll find it's been chalked off for a small toe being in an offside position.

Add in the fact that there's always a high chance that Spurs will cock it up removes the excitement almost entirely.
 
Unprecedented injury crisis aside (def at least partly caused by our coaching and team set up / tactics btw)
It doesn't really matter when you look at what we are doing on the pitch in every single game. The MOTD analysis laid it out very well at the weekend imo - Bentancur is covering 50 yards of space ON HIS OWN and was the cause of both goals alongside Porro being too far up the pitch and completely shot (again from tactics and being overplayed)
You could see a team who have lost 7 games on the spin and are pure shite just moved Bent from one side to the other like a boxer cornering someone in the ring them bang - straight in on goal when they wanted.
Just unbelievable to watch this happening from the sidelines and not change something but as we all know only too well he just doesn't do that game management and tactical tweak bollocks does he.

I like many others on here have been banging the same drum for over a year - you CANNOT play with one 6 (we don't have a proper 6 in our ranks!) and two FBS up the pitch in ANY game in this division - Leicester and others have shown us that. I find it absolutely insane that we are still playing this way especially with all our injuries, its just plain fucking stupid frankly and its the reason I have changed to get him out now rather than see out the season with him and let him have a go at the cups.

Make no mistake about it - we could be relegated if hes still here for another month and even with Romero and VDV prob rushed back again at Anfield we have another 8 players missing and zero chance of winning that game.
Villa I think we actually have a very slim chance because they give away a lot of chances and have played a lot of football too but regardless - priority is now getting 15 points in the league asap and with the fixtures we have left thats a scary proposition.

(I also don't wanna hear 32 points should keep us up - we need to be WELL fucking clear by the last few games considering the lack of guts we display on the pitch for the most part)
 
There is literally zero point ‘debating’ with people who have outright said they stand by the coach till the end no matter what.

It is an ideology to them. A cult of personality, they won’t change their mind as they’ve decided no matter what they’re behind their God. All the way to relegation if necessary.

Fans of a person now, not a club.
 
Basically we need at least 2 more top class centre backs considering VDV and Romero are always injured. But we also need a centre midfield boss, a top striker to rotate with Solanke and also 2 top class wide forwards. This is just to make sure Ange's system can actually work.
 
Finished 5th




Cherry picking.



Cherry picking again.

It is not.
If you don't understand how statistics or trends work, it is 100% on you.
Wouldn't really take pride in stupidity.

Point I was making - these exact numbers are half arbitrary, whatever number you choose, more recent results are significantly poorer than less recent results.

Does not matter how many times you close your eyes and scream "I cant see! I cant hear!" :)
 
It is not.
If you don't understand how statistics or trends work, it is 100% on you.
Wouldn't really take pride in stupidity.

Point I was making - these exact numbers are half arbitrary, whatever number you choose, more recent results are significantly poorer than less recent results.

Does not matter how many times you close your eyes and scream "I cant see! I cant hear!" :)

We are about to be 16th and just lost to Leicester at home. Deservedly. They looked the better team.

Anyone who still thinks Ange is the answer is trolling or needs help. There is no point using logic on either group of people.
 
Basically we need at least 2 more top class centre backs considering VDV and Romero are always injured. But we also need a centre midfield boss, a top striker to rotate with Solanke and also 2 top class wide forwards. This is just to make sure Ange's system can actually work.
Honestly I don't even think a prime Kante could marshall that 6 position in this 'system' on his own - its an absolute defensive nightmare to watch. And even if it did work we would need TWO of those world class 6 players because one would always have a hamstring injury no doubt.
 
If you dont trust your eyes which show an uncoached rabble then just look at pretty much every stat be it ppg, home form, away wins, number of defeats, clean sheets, chances given up. Every one you're having to go back 30 to 50 years to see anything as bad. There is no argument to be had anymore, no positives to take. Just whether this is as bad as Gross in 98 or our relegation year in 77.
 
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It is not.
If you don't understand how statistics or trends work, it is 100% on you.
Wouldn't really take pride in stupidity.

Point I was making - these exact numbers are half arbitrary, whatever number you choose, more recent results are significantly poorer than less recent results.

Does not matter how many times you close your eyes and scream "I cant see! I cant hear!" :)

Brother I did an MSc that needed a thesis written on statistical significance, correlations, and trends. P values and all that jazz. I still don’t claim to “ understand how statistics or trends work”.

If you do, I’m happy for you. I haven’t seen any evidence of that understanding in your posts but then again, there’s none in mine either because niether of us have actually gone that deep into the data because we are chatting shit on a fan forum.

Not denied recent results have been enough to get him sacked in any of my posts. All I said is that I wouldn’t for my own reasons outside those recent results.
 
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