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Manager Ange Postecoglou

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Was sacking Ange a good idea?

  • Yes, I think it was a good idea.

    Votes: 73 64.6%

  • No, I think it was a bad idea.

    Votes: 40 35.4%
  • Total voters
    113
Shotgunofmichalebrow said:
There's some really interesting stuff by the FT journalist Dan McCrum on bluesky, on exactly what a few of us spent nearly a year arguing with the dudu dudu OziBeerMan OziBeerMan AberdeenYid AberdeenYid of this world about The nature of how Postecoglou sides play football causing injuries. It was so obvious that it was needlessly attritional and the root of so many of our problems yet they just howled their denial. Its been the most bizzare time in this clubs history, the personal loyalty to the man is unprecedented. It seems demotic of some broader social phenomenon...some thing is wrong with the world at the moment.
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Not overly convinced I’ve been that vociferous about our injuries, the nature of them, or how they’ve happened. I’ve seen Ange interviews from his time at Celtic saying his training and playing style leads to more muscle injuries. So I’m aware of that. I’ve actually little idea why we’ve had so many injuries, but assume the style of play has played its part.

What I was previously outspoken about was I wanted us to stick with the manager a lot longer than most. Basically because I am sick of being stuck a year into a longer term project over and over again.

I see us having a fantastic record with our back five in place, so that’s great. However a plan that needs those five to remain fit doesn’t work at all. His idea when they aren’t seems to be to try to keep the ball as far away from this weakened area, but that’s not worked either.

Yes, I supported him because I wanted him to succeed. He hasn’t and he won’t, so he should go, but I’ll not have the anger towards him others have. He tried and failed. It happens.

And if my opinion on this, or anything else bugs you, I’m happy for you not to tag me into any “told you so” posts in future.
 
AberdeenYid said:
Not overly convinced I’ve been that vociferous about our injuries, the nature of them, or how they’ve happened. I’ve seen Ange interviews from his time at Celtic saying his training and playing style leads to more muscle injuries. So I’m aware of that. I’ve actually little idea why we’ve had so many injuries, but assume the style of play has played its part.

What I was previously outspoken about was I wanted us to stick with the manager a lot longer than most. Basically because I am sick of being stuck a year into a longer term project over and over again.

I see us having a fantastic record with our back five in place, so that’s great. However a plan that needs those five to remain fit doesn’t work at all. His idea when they aren’t seems to be to try to keep the ball as far away from this weakened area, but that’s not worked either.

Yes, I supported him because I wanted him to succeed. He hasn’t and he won’t, so he should go, but I’ll not have the anger towards him others have. He tried and failed. It happens.

And if my opinion on this, or anything else bugs you, I’m happy for you not to tag me into any “told you so” posts in future.
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If I've unfortunately lumped you in with the tactical brains who wanted to argue the toss and against all logic would produce charts and metrics for other teams pressing, I apologise.

They were adamant and could not be shifted despite the obviousness of our issues. You were indeed deeply committed to Ange for what effectively appeared to be the axiom "He clung to nurse for fear of worse" It's a very silly argument to say we are stuck in a pattern of doing this wrong thing, so we will keep doing this deeply flawed thing in the hope it comes right in the end. Sorry mate that's utterly bonkers.

At a very basic level Levy has made some terrible footballing decisions why would an untested Postecoglou be any diffrent.? He is the nadir, he is the bottom of Levy's failures . I think Redknapp's appointment in extremis is his best, Pochettino being his second choice.
 
Shotgunofmichalebrow said:
There's some really interesting stuff by the FT journalist Dan McCrum on bluesky, on exactly what a few of us spent nearly a year arguing with the dudu dudu OziBeerMan OziBeerMan AberdeenYid AberdeenYid of this world about The nature of how Postecoglou sides play football causing injuries. It was so obvious that it was needlessly attritional and the root of so many of our problems yet they just howled their denial. Its been the most bizzare time in this clubs history, the personal loyalty to the man is unprecedented. It seems demotic of some broader social phenomenon...some thing is wrong with the world at the moment.
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From four years ago, but I guess the only thing Levy was interested in was how cheap he would be to get.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

Ange Postecoglou admits his Celtic training demands can bring injuries

Kyogo Furuhashi and Albian Ajeti both limped off with injuries in the win over Real Betis.
www.dailyrecord.co.uk www.dailyrecord.co.uk
 
ThePreacher said:
Five of those clubs managers haven't spent 350mil on players.

The three B's have managers have all coached players with limited ability to play beyond their current skill level, something Poch was good at and that Jose, Conte and now Ange just pays lip service to.

Looking like a twenty five game losing season, one that has never been witnessed at Spurs in the PL era.

That alone and irrespective of the result in the EL Final, should facilitate his exit on Thursday morning.
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"Five of those clubs managers haven't spent 350mil on players."
Well, actually those teams have spent quite a lot in just the last 3 seasons on players.
Forest 430
Bournemouth 360m
Brentford 250
Brighton 380
palace 250
Everton 180

"The three B's have managers have all coached players with limited ability to play beyond their current skill level"
I think it's disingenuous to suggest that their squads have limited abilities. None of them are finishing 5th in the EPL; so how did Ange "Fluke" it?
 
luciaspuds said:
I just want to say one thing on the injury excuses.

Even one of us with a competent coaching team and the first XI available would look half decent. The real management is when you don't have your first choice, when you have to fit in players that have weaknesses. If you need the perfect players for every position, well, what's the need for you then?

The entire point of a manager or coaching team is to organise, maybe less good defenders into a functional defence and then if they make dumb mistakes and have lapses in concentration, well, that can happen.

It's to make attackers who might not have the best qualities attack with the same attacking plan as always, or some new twist, just something organised

The biggest flaw of Postecoglou is that even with a first XI, we rarely look organised, we just have the quality to sort out issues, whether it be defenders with pace that can deal with 1 on 1s better, or attackers that can take on their man and create
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We have rarely had our first 11 available. And even when we are playing backups - this list of available players changes from week to week with no consistency.

These were the back 4's we had to play in the EPL. No coach in the history of the EPL has EVER had this to deal with - every single week a different player in the back 4 changes; and each with different attributes.

Vic - Porro - Romero - VDV - Udogie
Vic - Porro - Romero - Dragusin - Udogie
Vic - Porro - Dragusin - Davies - Udogie
Forster - Porro - Dragusin - Davies - Udogie
Forster - Porro - Dragusin - Gray - Udgoie
Forster - Spence - Dragusin - Gray - Udgoie
Forster - Porro - Dragusin - Gray - Spence
Austin - Porro - Dragusin - Gray - Spence
Kinsky - Porro - Dragusin - Gray - Spence
Kinsky - Porro - Davies - Gray - Spence
Kinsky - Porro - Davies - Gray - Spence
Kinsky - Gray - Danso - Davies - Spence
 
harry7 said:
We have rarely had our first 11 available. And even when we are playing backups - this list of available players changes from week to week with no consistency.

These were the back 4's we had to play in the EPL. No coach in the history of the EPL has EVER had this to deal with - every single week a different player in the back 4 changes; and each with different attributes.

Vic - Porro - Romero - VDV - Udogie
Vic - Porro - Romero - Dragusin - Udogie
Vic - Porro - Dragusin - Davies - Udogie
Forster - Porro - Dragusin - Davies - Udogie
Forster - Porro - Dragusin - Gray - Udgoie
Forster - Spence - Dragusin - Gray - Udgoie
Forster - Porro - Dragusin - Gray - Spence
Austin - Porro - Dragusin - Gray - Spence
Kinsky - Porro - Dragusin - Gray - Spence
Kinsky - Porro - Davies - Gray - Spence
Kinsky - Porro - Davies - Gray - Spence
Kinsky - Gray - Danso - Davies - Spence
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Interesting how you view Ange as a victim of circumstance in the light of this fact, whereas I'm very much more of the opinion that the reason he has has this unequivocal "misfortune" with injuries is because it is a rod he has made for his own back with his kamikaze approach to the defensive setup, poor fortune would be a succession of impact injuries and unrelated knocks, why is almost every single injury suffered across the defence this year a muscular injury, particularly groin/hamstring? Nothing to do with the massive amount of tracking back we are required to do game after game, then?

I'll admit a lot more of the recent injuries have been fairly unfortunate impact injuries sustained in games, the sort you expect to get after a hard season of putting minutes into players' legs. The consistency with which we have received muscular injuries across the squad over 2 seasons is just not a coincidence, is it? It's a pattern. It's not poor fortune, it's poor management.
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
“If you’re so dismissive of everything I have done, and I am here (in the Europa league final) then it doesn’t say much for the competition I’m in, either I’m doing something significant and I’ve earned the right, or this isn’t that big a deal anyway because anybody could do it.”

That statement is, frankly, laughable and reveals the exact kind of warped logic that makes Ange so frustrating for a lot of fans.

You can’t measure the quality of a manager solely by reaching one European final while actively presiding over a complete collapse in the league. We are 17th in the Premier League ffs and even if we weren’t, the idea that his presence in a cup final somehow invalidates any criticism is nonsense.

Plenty of managers have fluked cup runs while struggling domestically it’s the nature of knockout football. One-off games, favourable draws, or players turning up on the night don’t suddenly make you a managerial genius.

By Ange’s logic, if he gets to a final, his methods are beyond criticism and he deserves to be there but where’s that logic when we’re losing to teams we should be beating every week in the league?

It’s also incredibly arrogant (shock) he’s basically saying: “If I’m in a final, it must mean I’m brilliant, otherwise the final doesn’t mean much and the competition must be shit”

That’s not leadership; that’s a man trying to spin one success to cover for months of mediocrity. It’s insecurity masquerading as confidence, and it doesn’t wash imo.

By that logic, Roberto Di Matteo must have been a world-class manager because he won Chelsea the Champions League or the champions league can’t be that great of a competition? Must be really easy to win it ey? 😂.

Maybe, just maybe, finals don’t always reflect managerial greatness…
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He's such an odious cunt, I cannot wait until he's gone.
 
Mostly wrong said:
Interesting how you view Ange as a victim of circumstance in the light of this fact, whereas I'm very much more of the opinion that the reason he has has this unequivocal "misfortune" with injuries is because it is a rod he has made for his own back with his kamikaze approach to the defensive setup, poor fortune would be a succession of impact injuries and unrelated knocks, why is almost every single injury suffered across the defence this year a muscular injury, particularly groin/hamstring? Nothing to do with the massive amount of tracking back we are required to do game after game, then?

I'll admit a lot more of the recent injuries have been fairly unfortunate impact injuries sustained in games, the sort you expect to get after a hard season of putting minutes into players' legs. The consistency with which we have received muscular injuries across the squad over 2 seasons is just not a coincidence, is it? It's a pattern. It's not poor fortune, it's poor management.
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Vicario was injured vs City following a collision with Savinho. In the same game, Romero picked up his foot injury following a tackle.

Odobert, Davies, Werner, Udogie and Van De Ven all bad hamstrings. This would suggest issues with our medical department and conditioning of the players. A coach will expect players to give 100% on the pitch - it's the MEDICAL teams job to prepare them physically and sign them off fit to play.

I don't buy the argument that our players are getting injured because Ange asks them to run on the pitch. Spurs aren't the first team in football history whose players are expected to run for 90 minutes. For example, teams who play similar styles (Klopp's Liverpool, Bielsa's Leeds) NEVER suffered this level of injuries.

Also, we were dominating possession in all our early season games. 70%+ of the ball vs Newcastle and Woolwich for instance. We weren't spending the game chasing down balls and closing down the opposition. We were in control and dictating the pace of the game.
 
harry7 said:
None of them are finishing 5th in the EPL; so how did Ange "Fluke" it?
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It’s quite simple really , we got 28 points in the whirlwind start after 10 then his tactics were worked out , we then got 38 points from 28 games , 1.3 points per game , if that were throughout the 23-24 season we’d have got 51 points , just below West Ham in 10th .

This decline has continued from 1.3 points per game to 1.05 points per game 👍

The Chelsea game last season was important but I also think the Wolves result & how they bullied us just after set the blueprint for other teams to follow .
 
One of the problems of him being unable to manage squads is that with all these injuries is that he expects the back ups to just come in and perform and be motivated. Unfortunately the modern day player is a baby and needs a softly softly hand held approach. They need to feel loved and involved. Trouble is, he obviously hasn’t done that and now he needs them to step into the team and help out either in the league or now because of injuries the Europa League.

Just another thing he’s done wrong to add to the list.
 
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