Next Monday wtf it's not a good look is it really especially for the fans who want clarity
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Manager Ange Postecoglou
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Woolwich fans managed to gaslight people into forgetting that they spent a bunch of time at the top of the table and bottled it in the January.
They were 2 points clear at the top 20 games in, and 6 points clear of us. By match 25, we'd gone into second above them level on points and Leicester were 5 points clear.
We got within 2 points of Leicester after match 27 and although we lost to west ham in the next game when they drew (thus could have been level on points) we still would have been 2nd in GD. They went unbeaten for the rest of the season (W7 D4), so Spurs really are very unfairly criticised for having a 6 wins in a row between mid Jan and March, and instead are labelled like losers - even though it was Woolwich who dropped a load of points and relinquished their hold on the top of the table.
As you can see from this pic, Man Utd are the champions of "Winning the league in a weak season"
Our bad luck was getting 86 points in the following season when Conte won with the 2nd highest ever points tally (at that point).
Our 86 would have been enough to win 11 of the prior 24 PL seasons. I think that's a big part of why we went downhill from there, because Poch kept saying we couldn't win it, and the team had an amazing season and probably felt defeated as a unit - like a bastard stepson realising they would never be good enough (which, of course, is not true)
That 16/17 season was unquestionably the best Spurs season in my lifetime. Undefeated at home; imperious at times.
The fact that the league rolled over for the Chav scum who had no Europe is one of the great travesties of football.
they fucking won 13 times in a row that year. just brutal and up there with their champions league run that squeezed us outWoolwich fans managed to gaslight people into forgetting that they spent a bunch of time at the top of the table and bottled it in the January.
They were 2 points clear at the top 20 games in, and 6 points clear of us. By match 25, we'd gone into second above them level on points and Leicester were 5 points clear.
We got within 2 points of Leicester after match 27 and although we lost to west ham in the next game when they drew (thus could have been level on points) we still would have been 2nd in GD. They went unbeaten for the rest of the season (W7 D4), so Spurs really are very unfairly criticised for having a 6 wins in a row between mid Jan and March, and instead are labelled like losers - even though it was Woolwich who dropped a load of points and relinquished their hold on the top of the table.
As you can see from this pic, Man Utd are the champions of "Winning the league in a weak season"
Our bad luck was getting 86 points in the following season when Conte won with the 2nd highest ever points tally (at that point).
Our 86 would have been enough to win 11 of the prior 24 PL seasons. I think that's a big part of why we went downhill from there, because Poch kept saying we couldn't win it, and the team had an amazing season and probably felt defeated as a unit - like a bastard stepson realising they would never be good enough (which, of course, is not true)
So you’re saying it’s acceptable? If so for you, fair enough. Not for me
That's it really in a nutshell. "Spursy" isn't about bottling it - it's about feeling like the universe is a woolwich fan
You are not a real Tottenham Hotspur fan.
How could lowly Tottenham hotspur with a miserly 9th highest revenue in the world be expected to compete on multiple fronts, I wonder..?
Is there something that leaps out to you about Liverpool's player acquisition during the formation of that Klopp side that we would have been incapable of achieving in the same time period? Granted if most of those players are given a straight choice between us and Liverpool they will go to Liverpool, barring some minor factors like if the playing time guarantee is much better at Spurs for example, but that does not mean to say that any of those players, Salah, Mane, Firminho, Coutinho, Alisson, with where they were bought from, were unrealistic purchases for Tottenham Hotspur.
I feel like you're conflating me with other posters because I have at no point disparaged the significance of winning the Europa league, particularly ending a 17 year trophy drought and getting us into the CL. I'm not so twisted in hatred of Ange that I can't give the appropriate weight to that achievement. Where different lines in the sand are being drawn are largely based on how believable you think his claim is that he simply fucked the league off in Feb to focus on the EL, and frankly looking back at his first season and the eerily similar drop off a cliff in form from Jan onwards in a season we had no European football to contend with and went out of both cups early, it rings rather hollow for me, I simply think he is completely out of depth at league level and there is a huge body of evidence to support this theory. Like those 22 games we lost this season, many of which to absolute dross.
IDK if you're having some bizarre malfunction in reading comprehension but this is the third time you've chosen to ignore the context in which I'm placing the relevance of a final appearance on the overall match load of a season, and that by reaching the final you have managed precisely the same matchload as the other manager contesting the final with you, in no way am I championing the simple act of reaching a final as any kind of an achievement and I haven't done at any point, you're simply obfuscating my point by attributing opinions to me I have never said.
Do you think we lost the 2019 Champions League final because Poch didn't take it seriously? How about the 2009 league cup final we lost on penalties to Man Utd, Redknapp just wasn't taking it seriously? Bit weird to go to all the effort of playing every single game required to reach a final and then jacking it in for the last game because you were never that bothered about winning it in the first place...
he completely switched their tactics up too and reinvented a forward as a wingback. that shit never works out like that. it was only the universe fucking us
I'm saying I look back on that game less concerned about how we gave away a halftime lead and more concerned about how we were in a position to have so little in player fitness to dedicate to a Premier League game in the first place. The 22 human legs that took the field for that game, and their available substitutes, WERE the weakest collection Leicester faced in their miserable run, it's not surprising that was their only win in that sense.
Disgraceful and unacceptable. How does that happen?
Ange's training, Ange's tactics, the physio staff, the composition of the squad in the first place, many potential culprits. It needs sorting out.
If Ange can't convince me that the brutal gauntlet of CL then PL every week will be handled differently and more successfully then I think we ought to thank him for his contributions and move on.
Not having this. 30%+ of the Ange in votes will be from fans of other clubs.
The consistency of form after the first 10 games, and the muscle injuries, makes me think he's incapable of setting pace over a season. Could be from some international experience, but doesn't seem hugely likely as he's been a success as a league manager.
The standard of those league does make me wonder if his key has been getting a team to be fit and professional in league that are less so.
For example, as much as everyone thinks it was better 'in their day' (e.g last century), you had pot bellied players drinking and smoking between kicking a ball. I reckon a modern championship team would walk the PL of the early 90s just on the basis that the teams back then wouldn't have a clue how to handle the pressing and endurance. Not meaning it to discredit, but Celtic is really hard not to do well there (I mean, Lennon and Rodgers haven't really translated Celtic form to the PL, bar the Slippy G season). Is it the case that's there no real magic trick to pull off in this league?
Brilliant question, we've been asking the board this question since they've taken over this club...answers on a postcard...
And this just further's the point really - the board are responsible for how this club's ran...I'm not sure what any of this has to do with your stance though?
This is fair enough but what kicked off this debate was you shitting on the achievement of us winning of the Europa League, something no manager has done at this club for 40 years.
There's no reading comprehension malfunction, the point you're making is bogus - we got to finals in evidence that we can sustain a challenge on both fronts but so fucking what, are we in football to challenge or football to win?
If there's a sustained pattern of this club getting to finals and not winning whilst maintaining a decent league campaign then maybe it cannot be done under this board? We've had many managers come and go that have tried and failed yet this manager has managed to win and the expense of the league, what does that tell you?
I think we lost the CL final and previous finals because ultimately we weren't good enough on the day, we won the EL final because ultimately we were good enough, there's a very thin margin between success and failure, this manager has managed to achieve something where our other managers have failed spectacularly, and that's all there is to it.
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Yeah, perhaps it would have been better to name another caretaker who, if he'd somehow won the Europa Final, would he now be owed another season?
Because Ange was basically a caretaker. He was a dead man walking from approximately the new year. Statements leaking out that even winning the Final may not be enough to save him. They'd printed up his walking papers and were only waiting to hand them over. That's what I call a caretaker, or a glorified one.
I don't think if Mason or anyone else who might have been appointed had been in charge and played negative football in the final he'd automatically be owed another go.
So we're saying then, that Ange gets another year because the final plus something else - plus his record of accomplishments besides - earned him another year? How could that be, there is nothing to his credit at all besides that cup Final.
That's what I mean
There's some of that for sure.
I also think there's just a sheer physics matter of Premier League quality sides being able to recover possession against you more often and to threaten your goal upon recovering possession more rapidly than even equally matched Scottish, Japanese or Australian sides can.
Long, max effort recovery sprints are required to play this way, and the Premier League is going to put a more taxing quantity of those into a player's legs than any other competition in the world.
Andoni Iraola makes similar asks of his players, and they get hurt. Fabian Huerzeler and Roberto de Zerbi, the same.
How do we find some balance?
Well, the two aren't the same thing, because of factors like him having recruited and built the team.
And then I continue to think it's ridiculous to act like selling Harry Kane and still finishing a goal-happy 5th bought Ange zero credit or credibility.
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Doesn't really work for the lottery analogy though does it?
When you're matching your skillset against others, you reduce the random factors by practicing and improving. When you're picking a bunch of random numbers, you're not preparing for anything, it's pure good fortune or "luck" that sees you win.
When you win something where you have odds in the millions against you, the word that we have attributed to that is luck. We could have called it Ermintrude and it would still be the same thing.
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I think that's an absolute fact. And that's true across all sports. Not long ago the players weren't olympic athletes crossed with bodybuilders, they just looked like anybody you might know. Perhaps even a top team from 2000 may not be able to match pace required for 90 min today.
not so sure it's that simple especially with football. no doubt the more modern player would out run and out physical the older teams but you still had to have skill and understanding of the game at a high level that the modern championship players still wouldn't have. it's still really hard to kick a ball well and the elite have always been elite
