Manager Ange Postecoglou

[FightingIllini]

Let's say Southgate was brought in at the end of January, when we were 15th and losers of 6 out of 7, but still could have salvaged the domestic cups. I think at that point 90% were Ange Out except those who didn't want to make a change but for the cups.

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It's actually kind of a good hypo, because I think some people might look at a manager with only those results to his name MORE favorably than Ange and others less.

(Southgate himself obviously comes with certain narrative baggage as well, maybe best to disregard that)

 

[Maureen]

How's it not relevant to Ange when discussing his potential replacement? Surely you're going to measure the guy potentially coming in against the guy potentially going out?
You're determined that anyone potentially coming in is a bad fit for one intangible reason or another, if it's a guy overperforming on limited resources like Frank it's "he's only ever finished midtable, players won't respect him", when it was Glasner in question who has quanitifiably achieved more at Europe's elite level in the past 5 years and finished miles above Ange with a team that has far less resources and had their best player taken off them in the summer, recovering from a winless period of their first 11 games, it's a "sideways step", and we talk about a proven winner in Inzaghi who has 2 CL final appearances and a Serie A title in the last 3 years all while never spending more than 30m euros on a single player and it means fuck all because Inter have a bigger wage budget than the other teams in the league?

You are playing devil's advocate in the extreme lately to back your horse, that's fine, it's the internet, people do it, but I've no interest in indulging it further.

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No to inzaghi do we really want to go back to a low block setup playing counter attack? Also will he develop our young players. He seems to molded an aging team at inter.

 

[dudu]

This guy is putting his "ITK status" at risk


View: https://x.com/Bergvallisking/status/1930323966486286549

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LOL twitter handle that couldnt be more than a year old.

 

[daveyboy88]

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your point, but those are not the same bets.

• B365 bet is about who will our manager be by mid-August, so can include Ange.
• Sky and PP are bets on who will be our NEXT manager, so don't include Ange.

Hence those odds make sense. Well, as I say, unless I'm misunderstanding you. The odds were much more strange a week or so ago, the 2nd and 3rd favourites with some bookies were down at like 4/1 or 5/1, yet up at 30/1 with another bookie - have look back a few pages and you'll see - think it was Poch, Xavi and another, can't remember exact details.

Manager markets are often weird though - someone becomes the big favourite, everyone bets on them, prices plummet to odds on, then the next day they're out at 30/1, bookies have made a killing, and the next favourite surfaces. It's often like that it seems. In fact right now is about as stable and normal a market as I've ever seen.

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ah yea good spot. they dont actually give odds for manager on the first game, only 365 do.

 

[manmountainbutters]

You still seem to be making the representation that this is a binary issue, that there exists no such person in world football management who may have similar chances to Ange of winning a trophy (especially if gifted such an easy run to a final) without having to utterly sacrifice the league campaign to achieve it. The proof is there in that we have reached 4 finals, including the most prestigious final in world club football, inside the 17 year timeframe between our two most recent trophy wins. You have to play just as many games to lose a final as win one, which means actually getting over the line at the final hurdle has absolutely no bearing on whether the league form would have suffered to the same extent.

I don't really understand how me not wanting to roll the dice with the only Tottenham manager to accumulate a points total that has got teams relegated in the premier league era, equates in your head to "valuing league form over a cup win". I would take 8th and a cup over 4th and no cup, even if it meant no CL qualification. There is a gulf of difference between being ok with a 25-30% placement underachievement in exchange for silverware vs rolling the dice on genuine relegation form on the off chance we can Stoke our way to another cup next season.

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Well put

IMO we are far more likely to be in a relegation battle with Ange than we are to win a trophy. There is a slim chance of both.

 

[Shadydan]

You still seem to be making the representation that this is a binary issue, that there exists no such person in world football management who may have similar chances to Ange of winning a trophy (especially if gifted such an easy run to a final) without having to utterly sacrifice the league campaign to achieve it. The proof is there in that we have reached 4 finals, including the most prestigious final in world club football, inside the 17 year timeframe between our two most recent trophy wins. You have to play just as many games to lose a final as win one, which means actually getting over the line at the final hurdle has absolutely no bearing on whether the league form would have suffered to the same extent.

I don't really understand how me not wanting to roll the dice with the only Tottenham manager to accumulate a points total that has got teams relegated in the premier league era, equates in your head to "valuing league form over a cup win". I would take 8th and a cup over 4th and no cup, even if it meant no CL qualification. There is a gulf of difference between being ok with a 25-30% placement underachievement in exchange for silverware vs rolling the dice on genuine relegation form on the off chance we can Stoke our way to another cup next season.

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Unfortunately in the land of winning and losing football is binary and especially for a club like Tottenham who are trophy starved and don't really have the means or the board to sustain a Title challenge, picking up pots is the most important thing we can do. If Ange had been gifted an easy run to the final then we can say the same thing for our previous managers, NS Mura, Genk, Zagreb etc...I didn't see us get past those matches did you? Unless you live in some alternative universe or something.

Once again reaching a final is great but you don't get to celebrate finishing 2nd, you'd have a point if we had won a trophy and finished high up in the league but alas we didn't so I can't accept your argument I'm afraid, this is all very Woolwich.

You don't need to understand it, you obviously don't agree and that's that...IMO he's earned the right to be here another season

 

[Dixiefish61]

Spoken to a few Spurs fans over the past two weeks and what strikes me is that not one of them has been completely anti-Ange as some are in here.

Even at the Brighton game everyone was unsure of what we should do.

I'm not sure keeping Ange would divide the fanbase as some on here would have us believe.

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I don’t think anyone either Ange in or out should be castigated for their opinion. Both are valid in my book.

I loved us winning a trophy again.

However, just looking at Leicester’s run of Lost 7, won 1, lost 8 keeps telling me that he shouldn’t survive. The dreadful league form, for me cannot be mitigated by a trophy, as good as it was.

 

[Deuterz]

Why would you have a lamb kofta in Heathrow when you are ON YOUR WAY TO GREECE?!

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Context is awesome. It’s just better when it’s applied evenly and not solely to support an agenda. Like how you highlight beating Man Utd in a final being different to losing to Liverpool or Man City in one breath, yet in the next downplay the entire achievement of winning the Europa League based on the quality of opposition, conveniently ignoring all the times Tottenham have lost to less than stellar competition in previous cup competitions (Butbutbut they weren’t taking it seriously, they were fully focused on winning the ‘4th place finish in the league trophy!’) Anything to avoid giving the manager a shred of credit I guess.

Remember Mourinho getting pumped 3-0 and dumped out of Europe by Dinamo Zagreb (who?) I’m certain if we put our heads together we could come up with other examples. You know what’s a hell of lot worse than beating sides the quality of Bodo, Frankfurt, and AZ Alkmaar? Losing to sides of that quality and not winning a goddamn thing.

Cheer up and enjoy it.

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They were focused on fighting for the league you dunce. When Pochettino went out of the EL we were in a league title race so we rested entire teams.

Jose was about five years past his peak when he rocked up at Tottenham, he was terrible for us as well. Not sure what the point is other than ‘look at this other guy who was coaching us terribly and still had us about 9 places above Ange’.

But yes, well done him for throwing literally everything at those games and winning them. Now fucking bring in a coach who can do it against premier league opposition regularly.

 

[Shadydan]

We can't do both?

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No you're not allowed.

 

[sudoku]

I suggest they make an announcement quickly.

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At last some decent ITK.

 

[John Duncan]

MC got canned from Boro for a lot of the same issues that we have with Ange.

Too set on his way to play football and struggling to adapt to his opponents or make in game changes.

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100 % get that ; You’ ve always struck as someone who actually knows what they’re talking about ( along with 2 or 3 others ) . But isn’t it time to bask in the glory of what we’ve just achieved and to think a bit “ outside the proverbial box “ and just “ go for it “ .

The hoo-doo’s off our back ; a year or two of running wild whilst also sensibly ”testing the waters ”with a new young maverick may just push that needle to where its never been much in the last 65 odd years.

It may not be sensible but equally it’s not completely crazy ; this Club has done far worse IMO .

 

[1882]

Odds massively shortening since news of Carricks sacking. He's as low as 12/1 now.

Levy on hearing the news

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Why let Mason go and then get Carrick into the club...? They're kinda the same thing ain't they?
Unless Carrick is gonna be someone's assistant, there's no WAY he's coming here as our manager....

or did I miss the joke?

Was it...Silence of the Lamb Kofte....?

I’ve just had a rubbish lamb kofta in my Heathrow hotel. And I’m going to Greece tomorrow.

Fuck know what that means.

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...it means that Heathrow hotels do rubbish lamb kofte!!

We were in the Hilton lounge and it was free.

It was worse than a stadium burger.

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... and now you know why it was free!

 

[Coys1955]

So why haven’t we heard a decision yet?

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Ange is the manager. Technically no decision is required. City won’t announce that Pep hasn’t been fired so why should Levy? Unless he decides to fire him of course.

 

[Mince Charming]

They were focused on fighting for the league you dunce. When Pochettino went out of the EL we were in a league title race so we rested entire teams.

Jose was about five years past his peak when he rocked up at Tottenham, he was terrible for us as well. Not sure what the point is other than ‘look at this other guy who was coaching us terribly and still had us about 9 places above Ange’.

But yes, well done him for throwing literally everything at those games and winning them. Now fucking bring in a coach who can do it against premier league opposition regularly.

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That’s interesting. So Poch threw everything at the league (and just to be clear, you’re talking about the easiest, most winnable Premier League season in modern history right?) and he failed to win it, managing to finish 3rd (lol)

Ange threw everything at the Europa, which he… won?

I’ll take the latter scenario thanks!

 

[Deuterz]

That’s interesting. So Poch threw everything at the league (and just to be clear, you’re talking about the easiest, most winnable Premier League season in modern history right?) and he failed to win it, managing to finish 3rd (lol)

Ange threw everything at the Europa, which he… won?

I’ll take the latter scenario thanks!

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Yeah mate, the easiest, most winnable premier league season in modern history and it was still about twelve thousand times harder to win that this years Europa league.

But yes, I’m sure you will. And that’s definitely how football works and how we should judge coaches. And I’m sure it’ll work out great for us next season.

 

[Coys1955]

Why let Mason go and then get Carrick into the club...? They're kinda the same thing ain't they?
Unless Carrick is gonna be someone's assistant, there's no WAY he's coming here as our manager....

or did I miss the joke?

Was it...Silence of the Lamb Kofte....?


...it means that Heathrow hotels do rubbish lamb kofte!!


... and now you know why it was free!

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TBH I think that Kofta is always rubbish. I’d definitely never pay for it. The free drinks were good though.

 

[Mostly wrong]

LOL, luck is a made-up idea by humans as a psychological and cultural mechanism for coping with randomness.

It is not a force, you cannot measure it, it is a completely subjective and made-up

The concept exist but luck itself does not outside of peoples imagination.

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Most human ideas are made up by humans. Funny how that works.
A man goes all in 15 times in a row on 32 red on a roulette table, and it comes up 32 red every single time, a massive statistical anomaly. You can call him "a beneficiary of an incredibly unlikely sequence of random chance events" or you can just save yourself from typing all that drivel and call him "lucky" instead.

If I win the lottery playing against millions of other people in a completely random chance draw, am I not considered "lucky" to have won instead of all those other millions of people? Just because "luck" isn't measured with a speedometer doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

[Rooster]

That’s interesting. So Poch threw everything at the league (and just to be clear, you’re talking about the easiest, most winnable Premier League season in modern history right?) and he failed to win it, managing to finish 3rd (lol)

Ange threw everything at the Europa, which he… won?

I’ll take the latter scenario thanks!

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Lol, he threw everything in Europa because he was so terrible in the league. It was later on that he changed that mindset because he was forced to do so, the league was lost anyways, while Poch was actually competing for the league til the end.

Remember Poch got us to a UCL final which no one has ever done for us.

 

[sudoku]

Most human ideas are made up by humans. Funny how that works.
A man goes all in 15 times in a row on 32 red on a roulette table, and it comes up 32 red every single time, a massive statistical anomaly. You can call him "a beneficiary of an incredibly unlikely sequence of random chance events" or you can just save yourself from typing all that drivel and call him "lucky" instead.

If I win the lottery playing against millions of other people in a completely random chance draw, am I not considered "lucky" to have won instead of all those other millions of people? Just because "luck" isn't measured with a speedometer doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

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Gary Player, the renowned South African golfer, famously said, "The more I practice, the luckier I get."
This quote highlights the idea that increased effort and preparation can lead to increased opportunities and a feeling of being lucky.
Essentially, the more someone prepares, the more they increase their chances of success, which can then be perceived as luck.

 

[Phomesy]

We were in the Hilton lounge and it was free.

It was worse than a stadium burger.

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Blatant "I was in the Hilton lounge and it didn't meet my lofty standards" post