• The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Manager Antonio Conte

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Airfixx said:
As I already noted..... I was "entertained" last season and we were also competitive..... If we can refind that balance then I'm happy.

How many so-called elite managers are we really taking about here.......?

Ancelotti win the double last year with fairly reactive football.

We're there question marks obove Conte 5 months ago? No; there wasn't....... Why cos we had the above mentioned balance.

This 'Conte is finished' narrative that's creeping in is extremely knee-jerk...... Especially considering the vast majority of people were banging the "we want Conte" drum the moment we were first linked last summer..... (AND the fact that he did so well last season. #ShortMemories yadda yadda)

..........Ironically; I wasn't one of them and have had certain reservations all along (more-so about his temperament & commitment etc.); but as a work in progress I've been pretty content so far.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I enjoyed it more but there were a LOT of games under Conte last season where we were still very reactive.

Ancelotti is adaptable. Madrid mostly play good football but will adjust for certain teams. The total opposite of Conte actually who is stubborn and has one (maybe two) style/approach that he applies to every single game no matter what.

Even the chasing pack of elite managers are all playing exciting, frontfoot football. How many negative, counter first managerial prospects do you know about? These managers are becoming a rare, rare breed & there's a reason most clubs don't go near them.

I despise the association of being boring to watch & winning. The vast majority of successful club teams have been domineering, exciting sides. A couple of pragmatic, risk averse managers win something & suddenly it's their style which is the one which has substance.

I don't think Conte's done. Rate him as a coach. Just not sure I want this club to commit to his style long-term when I'm not even sure he's all that committed anyway. Not convinced he's the coach to take us in to a rebuild job, nor that we will at least grab some silverware while he's here.
 
Shadydan said:
If I'm honest I prefer front foot football but understand that this current squad isn't going to play consistent exciting football in many approaches.

So...you just take what you can for the time being and let the man do his job, I don't think Conte's end game is playing like this and I'm sure he will want to upgrade the quality as well but whilst we are still rebuilding I'm expecting bumps on the way, as long as we're winning with a view to improving then I'm okay with it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Now this is a statement where I have to jump to other side of the front. From defending Conte to become critical of him.

If you claim that this is not Conte's endgame and plan... then what is? And why didn't he prioritize bringing in BALL-PLAYING CM in the summer like almost every Spurs fan breathing?
I lean towards believing that currently it is exactly like he intends to, with difference that in his dream Son should be finishing chances instead of wasting them.
I otherwise would add that other difference would be that he would expect more creativity from WB positions, but this is clearly not the case and it's proven with the action of keeping Royal starting in this position over and over and over again.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
I enjoyed it more but there were a LOT of games under Conte last season where we were still very reactive.

Ancelotti is adaptable. Madrid mostly play good football but will adjust for certain teams. The total opposite of Conte actually who is stubborn and has one (maybe two) style/approach that he applies to every single game no matter what.

Even the chasing pack of elite managers are all playing exciting, frontfoot football. How many negative, counter first managerial prospects do you know about? These managers are becoming a rare, rare breed & there's a reason most clubs don't go near them.

I despise the association of being boring to watch & winning. The vast majority of successful club teams have been domineering, exciting sides. A couple of pragmatic, risk averse managers win something & suddenly it's their style which is the one which has substance.

I don't think Conte's done. Rate him as a coach. Just not sure I want this club to commit to his style long-term when I'm not even sure he's all that committed anyway. Not convinced he's the coach to take us in to a rebuild job, nor that we will at least grab some silverware while he's here.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Difficult to asses without the players to make it work. We need 3 elite ball playing CB’s that along with good wing backs is the signature of Conteball. We have when fit Romero and Perisic. It’s a gaping hole.

It really comes down to whether we will invest a vast fortune to get the squad how it is needed.
 
Juno said:
We play a style that has seen us amass 1 point from 12 against Chavs, Woolwich, Man U and Newcastle and quite frankly, 4 pitiful performances. The flat track bullying against the weaker sides largely plays out similarly across the duration of a season. Those are the big head to heads that ultimately determine the top positions and we are heading for 7th the way we’re going at the moment.

For a £15 million a year manager who many talk of us as one of the great coaches in the world presently, We should be getting more than weak, tepid, cowardly and submissive displays we’ve served up in all the big top of the table head to heads.

Are Newcastle that much better than us? Look at the displays Eddie Howe got out of them to win at our place, draw at Old Trafford, score 3 and draw with Citeh, and some ropey time keeping from drawing at Anfield against the Dippers.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Bolded part is absolute garbage. You just state it, but bring on some backing for it.

Cause I feel it is fairly obvious that key to get to at least top 4 is to consistently beating teams from 7th place and onwards. Those games account for 84 points. You can win all of them, lose all 10 games with GD of -100 and still make top 4 comfortably. Essentially everything we get from those 10 games are bonus, not the basic expectation.
It is different when we talk about winning the title though. But looking at the big picture - that's not what we are talking about, is it.
 
Although Conte's style is a lot more defensive than the likes of Pep or Klopp, he's not quite Nuno or Mou.

We've scored a fair few goals with extended build up, and we've had games we've passed our way out of a press with quick passing at the back.

Conte clearly wants to do better on the ball, it seems to me that we're struggling to do that in part because our players are shite, and Conte himself isn't especially well versed in that area.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
I enjoyed it more but there were a LOT of games under Conte last season where we were still very reactive.

Ancelotti is adaptable. Madrid mostly play good football but will adjust for certain teams. The total opposite of Conte actually who is stubborn and has one (maybe two) style/approach that he applies to every single game no matter what.

Even the chasing pack of elite managers are all playing exciting, frontfoot football. How many negative, counter first managerial prospects do you know about? These managers are becoming a rare, rare breed & there's a reason most clubs don't go near them.

I despise the association of being boring to watch & winning. The vast majority of successful club teams have been domineering, exciting sides. A couple of pragmatic, risk averse managers win something & suddenly it's their style which is the one which has substance.

I don't think Conte's done. Rate him as a coach. Just not sure I want this club to commit to his style long-term when I'm not even sure he's all that committed anyway. Not convinced he's the coach to take us in to a rebuild job, nor that we will at least grab some silverware while he's here.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I hope you realize that this is quite a subjective statement?

I have not watched ManCity this year with Haaland. But last year and years before, watching their passing and passing and passing was absolute fucking borefest. Don't care for such football at all. Some of the performances under Conte have been much more enjoyable for me.

Though I am a weird breed. My perfect football is Jupp Bayern Munich that won the 2012-13 treble (and made it also to 11-12 final of CL) and decimated Barcelona (7:0 across two games). Then came in Pep who implemented his boring as fuck passing game and suffered absolute embarrassment (0:5 aggregate loss). And he never managed to reach semifinals with Bayern. And made the team extremely boring to watch.
 
TheSpurEst said:
I hope you realize that this is quite a subjective statement?

I have not watched ManCity this year with Haaland. But last year and years before, watching their passing and passing and passing was absolute fucking borefest. Don't care for such football at all. Some of the performances under Conte have been much more enjoyable for me.

Though I am a weird breed. My perfect football is Jupp Bayern Munich that won the 2012-13 treble (and made it also to 11-12 final of CL) and decimated Barcelona (7:0 across two games). Then came in Pep who implemented his boring as fuck passing game and suffered absolute embarrassment (0:5 aggregate loss). And he never managed to reach semifinals with Bayern. And made the team extremely boring to watch.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yeah you're in a tiny minority of people. Pepball isn't what I'd call my ideal model as it's very highly structured, but his team dominate games. Most fans enjoy their team dominating matches more than being passive.

And again, even if you don't recognise a certain type of football as more aesthetically pleasing, it's still factual that Conte's style is a rare breed in 2022. Most of the elite managers & up and those coming through the ranks play very differently, which is the main point.

I'm not saying you have to be a pure possession based team. Heynckes Bayern was very entertaining. They had 15 shots to Barcelona's 4 when they won the first leg of that 7-0 win. That's not a team being passive and just waiting to pounce at all.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
Yeah you're in a tiny minority of people. Pepball isn't what I'd call my ideal model as it's very highly structured, but his team dominate games. Most fans enjoy their team dominating matches more than being passive.

And again, even if you don't recognise a certain type of football as more aesthetically pleasing, it's still factual that Conte's style is a rare breed in 2022. Most of the elite managers & up and those coming through the ranks play very differently, which is the main point.

I'm not saying you have to be a pure possession based team. Heynckes Bayern was very entertaining. They had 15 shots to Barcelona's 4 when they won the first leg of that 7-0 win. That's not a team being passive and just waiting to pounce at all.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Pep ball is super boring as a neutral. But if I supported city, I’d enjoy it.
 
TheGhost said:
Being honest, I loved Italy during the Euros. They were capable of going back to front in three moves and a matter of seconds. Brilliant to watch.
We’ve shown we can do that when we’re firing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Italy were a dominant team in the Euros against everyone except for Spain who play ultra purist possession ball. They had 66% of the ball vs England & 54% vs Belgium, the other big teams they played.

In fact I’d argue the main reason they win that tournament is because Mancini abandoned the stereotypical defence first Italian philosophy for a more progressive style.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
I enjoyed it more but there were a LOT of games under Conte last season where we were still very reactive.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

(See bottom)

Raumdeuterz said:
Ancelotti is adaptable. Madrid mostly play good football but will adjust for certain teams. The total opposite of Conte actually who is stubborn and has one (maybe two) style/approach that he applies to every single game no matter what.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Given the power-base that RM hold over everyone else in their league (even FCB currently!) and 99% of the rest of the world, its inevitable that they'll be forced onto the front foot at times.

Didn't see it in the CL knockouts last season though...... And I doubt he approaches domestic crunch games in that manner either.

What's more; I have a stroooong suspicion that, on the (not entirely rare) occasions when they are put through the ringer and made to sweat by going behind to lower table teams; this is a by-product of them sitting off and allowing the oppo too much of a foothold in the game... Not that their vastly more talented team's front-foot approach to the game has regardless seen them outplayed by a bunch of La Liga minnows.

Raumdeuterz said:
Even the chasing pack of elite managers are all playing exciting, frontfoot football. How many negative, counter first managerial prospects do you know about? These managers are becoming a rare, rare breed & there's a reason most clubs don't go near them.

I despise the association of being boring to watch & winning. The vast majority of successful club teams have been domineering, exciting sides. A couple of pragmatic, risk averse managers win something & suddenly it's their style which is the one which has substance.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I do to, but in a sense you (and others) are just as guilty; perpetuating the extreme by adopting the default assumption that just cos someone says "substance > style"(***) they are some kind of anti-football acolyte that doesn't want the ball.

(***......When i say "priorty", it means just that; what's of most importance...... Not that it's the only thing or that I have a deep-rooted hunger to watch Pulis's Stoke.)

Raumdeuterz said:
I don't think Conte's done. Rate him as a coach. Just not sure I want this club to commit to his style long-term when I'm not even sure he's all that committed anyway. Not convinced he's the coach to take us in to a rebuild job, nor that we will at least grab some silverware while he's here.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

As I said yesterday; for me this all whittles down very quickly to a few basic questions (I think I have the jist of your take already, mate; so don't feel obliged to expand.... But if anyone else wants to answer them then great!):

Bearing in mind Conte-ball is Conte-ball and the man is who he is......

1. Did you want Conte early in summer 2021 when we were first linked (prior to the shit hunt that followed!)?
2. Do you want him gone now?
3. If you just answered "yes" to both; then WDF were you expecting?



One question for you though Deuterz Deuterz - Bearing in mind your last para..... If Conte exhibited 100% commitment, why would that change anything for you? If you don't like the football AND don't feel he'll win anything despite it, then why on earth would him being 100% down with the cause make any difference if you findamentally don't want what he's 'selling'?
 
Last edited:
TheGhost said:
Being honest, I loved Italy during the Euros. They were capable of going back to front in three moves and a matter of seconds. Brilliant to watch.
We’ve shown we can do that when we’re firing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That kind of ultra-efficiency is bad-ass........ Love it. (Same reason I rated Klopp's Liverpool at their peak >>>>>>>>>> what Pep is selling.)

Watching Man City often bores me (*)........ Much like it did watching the wheels come off for Poch where we'd spend the bulk of the game mindlessly probing round the 18 yard box only to get held to a 0-0 or be picked off for a smash-n-grab loss.... Ditto more often than people care to remember under Redknapp.... In fact for all the exciting games; he was also the king of the latter happening to us.


(*As I said; MC often bore me... But in the spirit of "Substance > Style of play"; if that was us, I'd be feeling more inclined to roll with it if the end result justified the means as it does for them. Deuterz Deuterz .... Ya get any better now? )
 
bonaspur23 said:
Pep ball is super boring as a neutral. But if I supported city, I’d enjoy it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Pochball at its peak was incredible to watch made me proud to support Spurs, Klopp football is fun with the right players. Potter and Ten Hag have great systems in terms of style.

Pepball is a mixed bag, looks amazing with Messi or in the case of City De Bruyne but can be very dull with anything less than the best World Class players.
 
AlabamaSpur said:
Yeah... I'd much rather lose 4-3 than watch the shit I've been forced to sit through the last month. Even the wins aren't as fun.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And I am of the opposite opinion. I'd rather win 1-0 than lose 4-3.

I was losing my head towards the end of Poch's run when we lost a bunch of games but people sat around going "But we were playing beautiful football". Like it was a moral victory.
 
TheSpurEst said:
Now this is a statement where I have to jump to other side of the front. From defending Conte to become critical of him.

If you claim that this is not Conte's endgame and plan... then what is? And why didn't he prioritize bringing in BALL-PLAYING CM in the summer like almost every Spurs fan breathing?
I lean towards believing that currently it is exactly like he intends to, with difference that in his dream Son should be finishing chances instead of wasting them.
I otherwise would add that other difference would be that he would expect more creativity from WB positions, but this is clearly not the case and it's proven with the action of keeping Royal starting in this position over and over and over again.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I don't think his end-game is a drastically different style of football..... He just wants better components in certain areas to ensure we can more consistently reach the peaks we did last season.

Starting to think that this is what's behind the drop-off...... That less gifted players can raise their game for a while, but Dier, Sess, Emerson, Doherty (eg) can't play at that level indefinitely through effort and commitment alone.

PEH has his limited technically too, but lucky for him that, so long as everything is humming; he actually suits the way Conte wants to play.
 
TheSpurEst said:
Bolded part is absolute garbage. You just state it, but bring on some backing for it.

Cause I feel it is fairly obvious that key to get to at least top 4 is to consistently beating teams from 7th place and onwards. Those games account for 84 points. You can win all of them, lose all 10 games with GD of -100 and still make top 4 comfortably. Essentially everything we get from those 10 games are bonus, not the basic expectation.
It is different when we talk about winning the title though. But looking at the big picture - that's not what we are talking about, is it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You need to work on your maths. Outside of Citeh, Man U, Dippers, Chavs, Woolwich and Newcastle, there’s 78 points up for grabs, not 84.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top