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Player Archie Gray
- Thread starter The Fighting Cock
- Start date
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Hiding is not making yourself available to receive a pass in tight spaces. Basically what Bentancur and Palinha did under Frank
I mean it literally is.
Frank was telling the players to do it under instruction, Gray did it against Sunderland under De Zerbi when he should have been showing for the ball.
No mate, you’re wrong on this one. He was subbed against Sunderland for not making an automatic pass from De Zerbi’s system. Not for hiding.
Ok, its confirmed, you're completely bonkers.
What?
He didnt show for the ball against Sunderland at all? What are you actually taking about????? Xakha absolutely dismantled him.
This is what I mean with you and trying to discuss players that you rate, there's zero objectivity.
I remember I pulled up numerous stats that showed Gray was performing really bad to which you informed me that stats don't mean much....you then used stats (on the same fucking day) to show why you thought Bentancur was shit.
You think it was a coincidence that none of them got many minutes after RDZ's first game?
Heck, despite the turgid style of play, we were harder to beat when Frank played Bentancur and Palhinha rather than any of the other 3.
They may one day be ready, but I don't think we could contemplate any of them being regular starters now.
Just argues for the sake of arguing.
Why? Sarr definitely isn’t exciting. Gray is really mature and hard working but exciting isn’t a word I’d use for him either.
Which basically just leaves Bergvall. Who yeah, can and has been exciting, but not for a little while and he hasn’t really improved at all since we signed him.
I think it was more down to a very particular way he had to approach those last games and the mentality needed for them.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that start next season RDZ will be incorporating Archie and Lucas into the team virtually straight away. Of course they have to gather experience but what you're saying is you've seen nothing at all. That's just clean nuts. I do agree with you about Sarr though, he's fallen off the cliff unfortunately. Personally I'm really excited about Archie and Lucas and think they will be amongst the most coveted players in the league in a few years time, if not before.
Waffle
Objectively, Gray is young and has plenty to learn. He needs to be more assertive and more consistent.
And you still dig out those stats as if he didn’t massively improve in the later stages of the season after Frank left and you flat out refused to accept that when he came into the team to break up the Palinha and Bentancur partnership, the team instantly looked better. You also flat out refuse to accept that he’s scored goals and assisted goals that won points that we would have been relegated without. You also refuse to accept that he’s covered pretty much every position and put in high level performances against some of the best teams we’ve played
And then you have the nerve to talk about objectivity
go sign Scotty Canham for your dream midfieldYes agree on Sarr, but for the age and experience of the other two, I am excited. With Archie I'm excited that we have a mature, hardworking and very skillful footballer with superb awareness. With Lucas I'm excited that we have someone with superb technical ability, again excellent awareness, who stepped up, just like Archie, into an underachieving and horrifically coached team and was very often a stand out performer. I'm excited. My query was that Matt said he hadn't seen "anything special at all" from these two.
Is this an attempt at humour?
You already forgot the darkest of times, recording 0.01xg for several games in a row, including games against the scum and Chelsea? You conveniently forgot Palinha refusing to show for the ball on those games?
I’ll always be grateful for the way he played in the run in. If he comes back then fine as long as it’s in a professional mentoring capacity but let’s not act like Palinha’s goal output massively hid the fact that he was a key part of Franks attempt to create the worst brand of football in history
Seriously... Are you joking?;Gray?!
He's gonna be this generations Gary Mabbutt...
A versatile all rounder and future Captain material...
And you can quote me on that, cos I'm gonna die on that hill!
Exactly that.
He was instructed to play it safe and boring by safe and boring coach.
When we look at the result and our playing style under Frank, one would have to guess - if we use that as benchmark- is there any player at all that we should keep? From the top of my head... then maybe Kudus? cause he single-handedly kept the ball up.
So are you suggesting to sell or sack absolutely every single player except for Kudus?
Or maybe actually cut the players some slack who stepped up when a manager with the plan stepped in?!?
Would you play the ball.forward with Muani and Richy ahead of you??
Look, I’m grateful to Palinha. I wouldn’t sign him permanently but I’m not against him coming back either.
De Zerbi found the right way to use him as a 3rd CB in possession. With no pressure on him and facing forwards, he will make solid enough decisions and out of possession he’s a monster. Huge heart, passionate leader and great pro.
But if you ask him to do the work of a midfielder, he will hide from receiving under pressure in midfield and will pretty much lose the ball so he can tackle it back.
I’m hoping Gray has learned loads from Palinha out of possession this season because in possession Gray is a completely different level of talent. His ability and courage to dribble his way out of tight spaces, then connect with a 1-2 like with Simons plenty of times, or ping a perfect pass down the line or cross field, that’s something Palinha can’t do and top end premier league midfielders can.
I could only really see either of them being eased in over the next 2 years rather than being fast tracked into the starting 11.
I'm not sure how fair that is for their careers tbh. I always support players who want to leave to play regularly.