Building the best squad - and we need what?

[Zest]

We seem to have many who think that a £40-50m new outlay this summer was fine.

How does that compare to clubs who were already well ahead of us in squad cohesion, quality and performance?

If we discount Man City.

Liverpool, Woolwich, Chelsea, Villa, Newcastle, Man Utd.

Those are the clutch of clubs who we wish to mix it with. How do we do that with hugely inferior spending, Chelsea aside we finished behind them all, lost our best player, hired a manager new to the league…

Ange clearly has that Gestalt factor within his Characteristics, yet he’s expected miraculous delivery, which in fairness he duly achieved, but the reality of squad paucity has hit this past fortnight.

Levy defenders gonna defend. If we are a 7-10th aspirational team, fine, Levy outline such to the fans, if we aspire to Top 3-4 then his (CB) antics yet again which Ange called out, was frankly just like we saw previously with Berbatov and others, the one consistent variable in that = Levy.

 

[Shadydan]

We seem to have many who think that a £40-50m new outlay this summer was fine.

How does that compare to clubs who were already well ahead of us in squad cohesion, quality and performance?

If we discount Man City.

Liverpool, Woolwich, Chelsea, Villa, Newcastle, Man Utd.

Those are the clutch of clubs who we wish to mix it with. How do we do that with hugely inferior spending, Chelsea aside we finished behind them all, lost our best player, hired a manager new to the league…

Ange clearly has that Gestalt factor within his Characteristics, yet he’s expected miraculous delivery, which in fairness he duly achieved, but the reality of squad paucity has hit this past fortnight.

Levy defenders gonna defend. If we are a 7-10th aspirational team, fine, Levy outline such to the fans, if we aspire to Top 3-4 then his (CB) antics yet again which Ange called out, was frankly just like we saw previously with Berbatov and others, the one consistent variable in that = Levy.

Don't give a shit what we spend and neither should anyone else really, what's important is whether the player who comes in is a good fit and if the manager is happy.

All this talk of sums and net spend and balance sheets is a nonsense truth be told.

 

[Richard Arlison]

Don't give a shit what we spend and neither should anyone else really, what's important is whether the player who comes in is a good fit and if the manager is happy.

All this talk of sums and net spend and balance sheets is a nonsense truth be told.

Cost of the player only comes into question if the player ends up not good enough.

The reverse gamble of buying from the discount aisle.

A club like Spurs that aims to be a big club in the premier league is 100% taking a risk vs performance when they spend less on a player for the first team.

 

[Shadydan]

Cost of the player only comes into question if the player ends up not good enough.

The reverse gamble of buying from the discount aisle.

A club like Spurs that aims to be a big club in the premier league is 100% taking a risk vs performance when they spend less on a player for the first team.

Point is, spend is meaningless to judge ambition.

A big club like ours needs to have a healthy balance between the right spend and the right recruitment i.e the Liverpool method.

If the recruitment is right then you don't always need to spend big, you just need to spend smart.

 

[stevee]

None of those fees are paid in one sum.

Neither were the fees for Porro or Deki.

The only fee that involved a large lump sum this summer was Kane going out and Bayern paid slight;y less because they paid in one chunk.

You either count transfers in lump sums from the date the player first played for Spurs or first plays for the new club you sell them to.

Or you go through the accounting boredom of working out exactly mow much of the total owed is paid each summer.

Unless, of course, you want to bend the facts to fit any narrative you like, i.e., counting the total spend for players like Romero, Deki, and Porro in multiple windows to make it look like a bigger spend by the club, or not counting it when they come in because it's a loan so you have a stick to beat the owners with...

Yes , I know.
For easy reference people clump it all together and make the case if investing x, or net spend of y in a transfer window.

In that case the money received for players must also be considered in the same manner otherwise it's a double standards.

Genuine question;
Does anyone know how much we received up front for Kane from Bayern ?

Nobody has ever counted the total spend for players like Romero, Deki and Porro in multiple windows.

Only those who want a stick to beat Levy with deny the facts that it was this summer, and this summer only that they became our players and therefore it's this summer that their transfer fees apply.

 

[Richard Arlison]

Yes , I know.
For easy reference people clump it all together and make the case if investing x, or net spend of y in a transfer window.

In that case the money received for players must also be considered in the same manner otherwise it's a double standards.

Genuine question;
Does anyone know how much we received up front for Kane from Bayern ?

Nobody has ever counted the total spend for players like Romero, Deki and Porro in multiple windows.

Only those who want a stick to beat Levy with deny the facts that it was this summer, and this summer only that they became our players and therefore it's this summer that their transfer fees apply.

Yes, they absolutely have counted them several times. Skysports for example used the Romero, Deki and Bentancur spends to say that Conte was backed?

Are you saying that they should be included in the amount spent on the squad for Ange?

Surely, you can't claim Deki and Porro are Ange spends from this summer?

The ONLY simple, and honest way to count them is the full, final spend from the moment they play for the manager that was in place when the player first wore a spurs shirt.

 

[stevee]

Yes, they absolutely have counted them several times. Skysports for example used the Romero, Deki and Bentancur spends to say that Conte was backed?

Link showing the spend for Conte please ?

Are you saying that they should be included in the amount spent on the squad for Ange?

Surely, you can't claim Deki and Porro are Ange spends from this summer?

The ONLY simple, and honest way to count them is the full, final spend from the moment they play for the manager that was in place when the player first wore a spurs shirt.

Absolutely they are this year's spend.

We only paid a loan fee previously.
Now we are paying the transfer fee.

How much did we receive up front for Kane ?

 

[Richard Arlison]

Point is, spend is meaningless to judge ambition.

A big club like ours needs to have a healthy balance between the right spend and the right recruitment i.e the Liverpool method.

If the recruitment is right then you don't always need to spend big, you just need to spend smart.

Not meaningless, you can't buy the best players in the world without spending huge sums.

If you go and buy Mbappe, Messi and Bellingham in one summer, your ambition is to win, so that spend means something.

Spend isn't the be all and end all that some assume it to be. You can construct a world class squad with smaller spends but your odds of achieving it are lower if you spend less because you are attempting to beat the market.

 

[Richard Arlison]

Link showing the spend for Conte please ?

Absolutely they are this year's spend.

We only paid a loan fee previously.
Now we are paying the transfer fee.

How much did we receive up front for Kane ?

So, Conte wasn't really backed at all?

 

[stevee]

We seem to have many who think that a £40-50m new outlay this summer was fine.

How does that compare to clubs who were already well ahead of us in squad cohesion, quality and performance?

If we discount Man City.

Liverpool, Woolwich, Chelsea, Villa, Newcastle, Man Utd.

Those are the clutch of clubs who we wish to mix it with. How do we do that with hugely inferior spending, Chelsea aside we finished behind them all, lost our best player, hired a manager new to the league…

Ange clearly has that Gestalt factor within his Characteristics, yet he’s expected miraculous delivery, which in fairness he duly achieved, but the reality of squad paucity has hit this past fortnight.

Levy defenders gonna defend. If we are a 7-10th aspirational team, fine, Levy outline such to the fans, if we aspire to Top 3-4 then his (CB) antics yet again which Ange called out, was frankly just like we saw previously with Berbatov and others, the one consistent variable in that = Levy.

Except we had an outlay of @£230m

Offset by a income on transfers of @£105m

Net = £125m

Tottenham Hotspur - Transfers 23/24

Transfers: Overview of all signed and sold players of club Tottenham for the current season.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

 

[stevee]

So, Conte wasn't really backed at all?

I didn't say that.

I asked for a link showing how much was spent under Conte, which shows Deki and Porro's full transfer fees included.

I've also asked, 3 times now, a link showing how much of Kane's fee was paid up front.

I'm simply asking that you back up your claims with evidence.

 

[Shadydan]

Not meaningless, you can't buy the best players in the world without spending huge sums.

If you go and buy Mbappe, Messi and Bellingham in one summer, your ambition is to win, so that spend means something.

Spend isn't the be all and end all that some assume it to be. You can construct a world class squad with smaller spends but your odds of achieving it are lower if you spend less because you are attempting to beat the market.

It's meaningless in the context of judging a transfer window and only using money as your barometer.

If you go and spend £400m on a load of mediocre shit it doesn't mean you suddenly have ambition hence why I said no-one should really be looking at the balance sheet when it comes to the TW and judge whether are ambitions or not or compare us to our rivals in that respect...

 

[Richard Arlison]

I didn't say that.

I asked for a link showing how much was spent under Conte, which shows Deki and Porro's full transfer fees included.

I've also asked, 3 times now, a link showing how much of Kane's fee was paid up front.

I'm simply asking that you back up your claims with evidence.

There was a quote from Bayern and an Ali G article saying a large chunk of Kane transfer was upfront. It's common knowledge.

 

[Richard Arlison]

It's meaningless in the context of judging a transfer window and only using money as your barometer.

If you go and spend £400m on a load of mediocre shit it doesn't mean you suddenly have ambition hence why I said no-one should really be looking at the balance sheet when it comes to the TW and judge whether are ambitions or not or compare us to our rivals in that respect...

Yeah, I agree.

 

[stevee]

There was a quote from Bayern and an Ali G article saying a large chunk of Kane transfer was upfront. It's common knowledge.

Link? I'm genuinely interested in finding out how much was paid up front.



And also a link showing that Deki and Porro's full transfer fees were included under Conte's reign.

Thanks

 

[Richard Arlison]

I didn't say that.

I asked for a link showing how much was spent under Conte, which shows Deki and Porro's full transfer fees included.

I've also asked, 3 times now, a link showing how much of Kane's fee was paid up front.

I'm simply asking that you back up your claims with evidence.

Ok, so I can't find the GFX used. And CBA to continue the search.

Here is a story from Sky that says they were signed for Conte to say he was backed, even if the numbers they used don't appear to include their full transfers.

Antonio Conte: Gary Neville says Tottenham boss has been backed by club in transfer market

Monday nights Premier League win over Fulham saw Spurs move to within three points of the top four but question marks still remain over the future of Antonio Conte, whose current contract expires in the summer; Gary Neville: The idea Spurs havent supported him is wrong. Its a myth.

www.skysports.com

In fact, these numbers show that Spurs ranked 7th for Net spend during Conte's time, so you can't really justify the claim he was backed to deliver on a remit of winning things.

 

[stevee]

Ok, so I can't find the GFX used. And CBA to continue the search.

Here is a story from Sky that says they were signed for Conte to say he was backed, even if the numbers they used don't appear to include their full transfers.

Antonio Conte: Gary Neville says Tottenham boss has been backed by club in transfer market

Monday nights Premier League win over Fulham saw Spurs move to within three points of the top four but question marks still remain over the future of Antonio Conte, whose current contract expires in the summer; Gary Neville: The idea Spurs havent supported him is wrong. Its a myth.

www.skysports.com

So that's a "No, I can't find a link from anywhere that includes the Deki and Porro's full transfer fees in the figures "

Thought not.

In fact, these numbers show that Spurs ranked 7th for Net spend during Conte's time, so you can't really justify the claim he was backed to deliver on a remit of winning things.

Erm.......I never claimed anything re Conte.

Although I will say that the 6th richest club in the PL being 7th in net spend is not disastrous.

Plus he spent @ £195m whilst here.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/antonio-conte/spielertransfers/trainer/3517/plus/0/galerie/0?station_id=341111

These figures include the loan fees paid for Deki and Porro, but correctly doesn't show the transfer fee as they weren't our players.

Have you found the link re Kane and the amount paid up front ?

 

[Richard Arlison]

So that's a "No, I can't find a link from anywhere that includes the Deki and Porro's full transfer fees in the figures "

Thought not.

Erm.......I never claimed anything re Conte.

Although I will say that the 6th richest club in the PL being 7th in net spend is not disastrous.

Plus he spent @ £195m whilst here.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/antonio-conte/spielertransfers/trainer/3517/plus/0/galerie/0?station_id=341111

These figures include the loan fees paid for Deki and Porro, but correctly doesn't show the transfer fee as they weren't our players.

Have you found the link re Kane and the amount paid up front ?

I haven't bothered looking. Doesn't mean that didn't happen.

But that article I shared counts Deki, Romero, Porro and Bentancur as backing for Conte.

So I guess we are talking about the difference between bringing in players to back a manager and when the actual spend is counted. AGAIN.

So surely, we can agree that if we count the player being brought in to back a manager, then either we count the spend at that time as well? or it's pretty disingenuous to count it later?

 

[stevee]

By

I haven't bothered looking. Doesn't mean that didn't happen.

But that article I shared counts Deki, Romero, Porro and Bentancur as backing for Conte.

So I guess we are talking about the difference between bringing in players to back a manager and when the actual spend is counted. AGAIN.

So surely, we can agree that if we count the player being brought in to back a manager, then either we count the spend at that time as well? or it's pretty disingenuous to count it later?

It wasn't counted FIRST TIME around, as my link clearly shows.

It's pretty ingenious to claim it's counted twice when you have no source to that claim and there is a link saying that it WASN'T counted twice.

 

[Château NoHo]

IMO, our manager roller-coaster over the past 4/5 seasons in an effort to "win something, now" has had more of a disruptive impact on the club than our transfer strategies/player identification + recruitment policies.