This has been an on going issue for years Rangers & Celtic joining the English league but the only ones going on about it is the two teams themselves plus I think one or two chairmen here Bolton being one and look how that’s panned out for them! But if they got to move then the two top teams in Belgium will want the same or the top two in portugal will want to jump ship and go to Spain for example and so it will go on so no they can stop where they are.
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I think they have quoted the “precedent” of the Welsh teams being in the English Leagues but I don’t think it is ever going to happen.
I live in Scotland and it never really rates a mention, it was a hot topic around the early/mid 2000s but it has pretty much died a death in recent times.
Mostly because of what happened to Rangers it suddenly disappeared from the agenda! But in saying that the doom merchants said it would be the end of Scottish football Rangers going down in fact it had the opposite affect.
Yes that’s a major part of it, the Rangers meltdown, they have bigger issues to worry about just now.
Agreed, in at least the last 15 years, the only folk moaning about the old firm playing in England are mentally subnormal English daft cunts. I can't remember anyone up here suggesting it. Nobody here gives a single fuck. Our league is shite. So fuck. Move on.
Not sure Twitter us important, but I agree: the old firm following internationally is overstated.
“The old firm” hasn’t existed since 2012.
I hate to say it, but social media is a good barometer of the size of fan base.
The Celtic fan base is big in Scotland for the same reason Liverpool and Man United is in england..... a long history of success.
If (and I'm not championing it) Celtic joined the English league, that success would dry up over night. In 20 years, they will rely on the children of their older supporters to follow them as there would be fuck all other reason to do so. Especially if Rangers stayed in the SPL and dominated.
The Celtic fan base is big in Scotland for the same reason Liverpool and Man United is in england..... a long history of success.
If (and I'm not championing it) Celtic joined the English league, that success would dry up over night. In 20 years, they will rely on the children of their older supporters to follow them as there would be fuck all other reason to do so. Especially if Rangers stayed in the SPL and dominated.
I'm not sure it is either but I guess it's as good a barometer as any, for some context Spurs have 3.6 million followers, Newcastle have 1.4 million, West Ham 1.5 , Leeds have 430,000 , Sheffield Utd 250,000.
I guess a lot of the followers follow multiple teams so they aren't what you'd typically call supporters I'm also fairly certain Celtic could double or treble their amount of followers with a few years of Premier League exposure but ultimately I do feel there is some merit in Twitter and other social media alluding to the fact The Old Firm's global support is grossly exaggerated.
Jeez Vince you go deep!
Some days I pretend to care.
Good article. I didn't even know Celtic were knocked out of the CL. Vile club.
www.theguardian.com
If Celtic take delivery of the Scottish Premiership trophy for a 10th time in succession come May, you can guarantee a bloody nose at the hands of Ferencvaros will not feature as a reference point. Nor will previous European embarrassments at the hands of Cluj, AEK Athens, Malmö and Maribor amid dominance at home.
It remains an astonishing reality that winning by umpteen lengths in what is, at most, a two-horse race matters significantly more to some than making inroads in a more illustrious competition. The remainder of Scottish football has no reason to feel smug about Celtic’s latest horror show, given the pre-eminent team in the country has just been shown up by the champions of a nation ranked below Liechtenstein in Uefa’s coefficient table. That won’t stop the sniggering, of course.
Chronic overpraise towards either half of the Old Firm when they demolish domestic sides with a 30th of their wage budget means the reaction when results such as the Ferencvaros reverse arise is hilariously furious. When Neil Lennon spoke of Celtic players believing their own hype, that is perfectly understandable; their weekly environment encourages this. So, too, the lauding that follows the odd decent result in Europe.
In truth – and for all Ferencvaros will not make a meaningful European impact this season – this was not as shocking a Champions League outcome as some would believe. As Celtic lorded it over the rest of Scottish football under Ronny Deila and Brendan Rodgers, their leeway provided a raft of opportunity. Celtic had scope to develop scores of their own players, build a playing template and aim far higher than St Mirren and Hamilton.
Praise rightly falls on a policy that saw Kieran Tierney and Moussa Dembélé leave for a combined £40m and will inevitably draw a record sum when Odsonne Édouard grows tired of his environment. Yet an astonishing level of wastage – Celtic’s salary bill was last recorded at £60m – has preceded the club’s earliest Champions League exit since 2005. This club, which can attract 50,000 season-ticket holders and likes to portray itself as a giant, should deliver far more.
Planning, especially in recruitment, looks overtaken by short-termism. From the team who lost to Ferencvaros, there is a viable case for Celtic’s best value signing being Ryan Christie, a £500,000 purchase from Inverness. Many flatter to deceive when the stakes are raised, as rather explains why they have landed in Scotland in the first place. Others, bought for seven-figure fees, have vanished without trace.
All the while it is unclear what the model actually is, beyond regular punts on players from abroad. Patryk Klimala, a £3.5m striker, was not deemed good enough to throw on with Celtic desperately needing potency against the Hungarians. Albian Ajeti’s arrival from West Ham came too late for him to be deemed fit to start. Celtic were scraping around for a first-choice goalkeeper days before their season started.
At a time when the football boundaries have changed so significantly and the Scottish game’s own financial gap has never been wider, it is bizarre that 10 in a row is afforded such status. Lennon cannot be spared criticism for the Ferencvaros affair; no manager can when his team lack pace, are ponderous in attack and make regular defensive blunders.
Yet he is more aware of a bigger picture than most. He acknowledged as much before this campaign. “Everything doesn’t just stop at the end of this season if we achieve it,” said Lennon of the 10-title haul. Lennon has played in and managed Celtic teams who have made great headway in Europe. He knows the weight that carries.
Stroppiness when questions over the level of Scottish football are raised emphasises parochialism that is undermined by watching games. The standard of fixtures in the early stages of this season has been shockingly poor, from what was a pretty low water mark in 2019-20. Celtic have missed a chance to elevate themselves to a position where the Scottish Premiership – while still, naturally, a fundamental part of their work – is merely the stepping stone to broader success.
Lennon’s broadside at certain members of his squad raised eyebrows. The inference is that some Celtic players are already looking towards pastures new. The blunt reality is that, with the odd exception, players of high currency care little about 10-in-a-row. Unpalatable though that sounds, and as contrary as it is towards marketing campaigns, maybe it’s hard to blame them.
People who needlessly hype up Scottish football and its humdrum achievements are far more problematic than those who can see bigger and better things elsewhere. Celtic are now suffering from a skewed focus.
Celtic's hype bubble is burst by another Champions League failure | Ewan Murray
Talk of 10 titles in a row belies falling standards in Scotland. Is a home defeat to Ferencvaros really such a surprise any more?
www.theguardian.com
If Celtic take delivery of the Scottish Premiership trophy for a 10th time in succession come May, you can guarantee a bloody nose at the hands of Ferencvaros will not feature as a reference point. Nor will previous European embarrassments at the hands of Cluj, AEK Athens, Malmö and Maribor amid dominance at home.
It remains an astonishing reality that winning by umpteen lengths in what is, at most, a two-horse race matters significantly more to some than making inroads in a more illustrious competition. The remainder of Scottish football has no reason to feel smug about Celtic’s latest horror show, given the pre-eminent team in the country has just been shown up by the champions of a nation ranked below Liechtenstein in Uefa’s coefficient table. That won’t stop the sniggering, of course.
Chronic overpraise towards either half of the Old Firm when they demolish domestic sides with a 30th of their wage budget means the reaction when results such as the Ferencvaros reverse arise is hilariously furious. When Neil Lennon spoke of Celtic players believing their own hype, that is perfectly understandable; their weekly environment encourages this. So, too, the lauding that follows the odd decent result in Europe.
In truth – and for all Ferencvaros will not make a meaningful European impact this season – this was not as shocking a Champions League outcome as some would believe. As Celtic lorded it over the rest of Scottish football under Ronny Deila and Brendan Rodgers, their leeway provided a raft of opportunity. Celtic had scope to develop scores of their own players, build a playing template and aim far higher than St Mirren and Hamilton.
Praise rightly falls on a policy that saw Kieran Tierney and Moussa Dembélé leave for a combined £40m and will inevitably draw a record sum when Odsonne Édouard grows tired of his environment. Yet an astonishing level of wastage – Celtic’s salary bill was last recorded at £60m – has preceded the club’s earliest Champions League exit since 2005. This club, which can attract 50,000 season-ticket holders and likes to portray itself as a giant, should deliver far more.
Planning, especially in recruitment, looks overtaken by short-termism. From the team who lost to Ferencvaros, there is a viable case for Celtic’s best value signing being Ryan Christie, a £500,000 purchase from Inverness. Many flatter to deceive when the stakes are raised, as rather explains why they have landed in Scotland in the first place. Others, bought for seven-figure fees, have vanished without trace.
All the while it is unclear what the model actually is, beyond regular punts on players from abroad. Patryk Klimala, a £3.5m striker, was not deemed good enough to throw on with Celtic desperately needing potency against the Hungarians. Albian Ajeti’s arrival from West Ham came too late for him to be deemed fit to start. Celtic were scraping around for a first-choice goalkeeper days before their season started.
At a time when the football boundaries have changed so significantly and the Scottish game’s own financial gap has never been wider, it is bizarre that 10 in a row is afforded such status. Lennon cannot be spared criticism for the Ferencvaros affair; no manager can when his team lack pace, are ponderous in attack and make regular defensive blunders.
Yet he is more aware of a bigger picture than most. He acknowledged as much before this campaign. “Everything doesn’t just stop at the end of this season if we achieve it,” said Lennon of the 10-title haul. Lennon has played in and managed Celtic teams who have made great headway in Europe. He knows the weight that carries.
Stroppiness when questions over the level of Scottish football are raised emphasises parochialism that is undermined by watching games. The standard of fixtures in the early stages of this season has been shockingly poor, from what was a pretty low water mark in 2019-20. Celtic have missed a chance to elevate themselves to a position where the Scottish Premiership – while still, naturally, a fundamental part of their work – is merely the stepping stone to broader success.
Lennon’s broadside at certain members of his squad raised eyebrows. The inference is that some Celtic players are already looking towards pastures new. The blunt reality is that, with the odd exception, players of high currency care little about 10-in-a-row. Unpalatable though that sounds, and as contrary as it is towards marketing campaigns, maybe it’s hard to blame them.
People who needlessly hype up Scottish football and its humdrum achievements are far more problematic than those who can see bigger and better things elsewhere. Celtic are now suffering from a skewed focus.
Having a discussion with a friend about which club is bigger, Spurs or Celtic. I would say historically Celtic, but if we take a snapshot of the clubs at this moment in time I would say Spurs.
I would say not to underestimate the global fanbase of Celtic but I think they are not on the level of the premier league’s current elite due to the vast fortunes that have been accumulated in recent years by the PL’s biggest clubs. I think there is a yardstick for comparison with the tier of clubs just sitting under the true elite of Liverpool, Man United, Woolwich, Chelsea and, perhaps latterly, Man City. Hypothetically, a share of PL TV money and Celtic would, in my view, challenge the top eight fairly consistently after a season or two (not that that scenario will arise!)
Celtic
Won the CL, first British club to do it
Dozens of league titles, cups, etc
Far more silverware (in a less competitive league)
Huge global fanbase
Passionate support - would take an amazing away following anywhere
Had a lineage of incredible players on their books, historically
Spurs
Did the FA/League double in ’61, first English club to do it
Massive global fanbase, esp. in Asia - (see Son Heung-Min)
Arguably best stadium in Europe
Arguably best infrastructure
Reached a CL final last year
Squad full of superstars, one World Cup winner
Celtic 5th, Spurs 6th
The 50 Biggest Football Clubs in Britain - Ranked
Spurs 6th, Celtic 8th
Top 30 biggest football clubs in Britain - counting down from 30 to number one
YouGov lists Rangers above Celtic, quite surprisingly to my mind
The most popular football clubs in the UK | Sport | YouGov Ratings
I would say not to underestimate the global fanbase of Celtic but I think they are not on the level of the premier league’s current elite due to the vast fortunes that have been accumulated in recent years by the PL’s biggest clubs. I think there is a yardstick for comparison with the tier of clubs just sitting under the true elite of Liverpool, Man United, Woolwich, Chelsea and, perhaps latterly, Man City. Hypothetically, a share of PL TV money and Celtic would, in my view, challenge the top eight fairly consistently after a season or two (not that that scenario will arise!)
Celtic
Won the CL, first British club to do it
Dozens of league titles, cups, etc
Far more silverware (in a less competitive league)
Huge global fanbase
Passionate support - would take an amazing away following anywhere
Had a lineage of incredible players on their books, historically
Spurs
Did the FA/League double in ’61, first English club to do it
Massive global fanbase, esp. in Asia - (see Son Heung-Min)
Arguably best stadium in Europe
Arguably best infrastructure
Reached a CL final last year
Squad full of superstars, one World Cup winner
Celtic 5th, Spurs 6th
The 50 Biggest Football Clubs in Britain - Ranked
Spurs 6th, Celtic 8th
Top 30 biggest football clubs in Britain - counting down from 30 to number one
YouGov lists Rangers above Celtic, quite surprisingly to my mind
The most popular football clubs in the UK | Sport | YouGov Ratings
As a irish spurs fan with a celtic affinity how are celtic fans vile?? Because they wont wear a symbol of an army and country that have killed millions of the same people who founded theyre club?
Would you wear a swastika and the germans killed maybe 1/10 through direct warfare that was killed in ireland since 1200 through famine war pestilence
Always surprised me that Celtic formed up way back in 1888 in a British City/Country and not in Ireland...
My personal opinion is no. But in parts of ireland it would be yes
Hard to imagine people can be that ignorant, to assign some primeval feelings of hatred to a paper copy of a flower or to a sacred religious symbol (long before Hitler) says far more about the limited intelligence of your Irish brethren than it does about those symbols. Do those same people also despise the Celtic Cross used by Norwegian Nazi's, multiple other White Supremacist groups, and for years featured on the Celtic strip?
