I agee as someone who voted leave.
There’s been a seismic shift to the right which I find disconcerting. I’m centre-left generally, but politically aware enough to know not everything is black and white. I’ve certainly got particular opinions that are more on the ‘right’ side of the spectrum.
It wasn’t a pop at anyone who voted to leave. It’s obviously far more complex than that, and I can respect the fact that people on both sides of the vote might have perfectly good reasons to make their decisions. It’s just for me, the overarching narrative of the leave campaign was driven by right-wing scaremongering. Doesn’t mean I think everyone who voted that way was influenced by that narrative. Apologies if I caused any offence.
Anyway, it’s the West Ham thread so...when punctuation is beyond your club’s budget:
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For you yes, but not for all. You’re insinuating that everyone who voted leave is a moron who is ultra susceptible to propaganda. I voted leave and that propaganda didn’t even register with me. I don’t read newspapers. I can’t be arsed to explain why I voted leave, but it was not for the reasons you attribute to the majority. Trump has nothing to do with Brexit - to suggest so is hysterical and you’ve forced a decent poster from the board with your one eyed views. You’re miserable because you want it both ways up and that ain’t going to happen. Deal with it like the rest of us have to when votes don’t go our way. I initially thought you were a half decent poster, but you couldn’t help but denigrate over half the British public in a poxy West Ham thread. Aren’t there other outlets for your frustration?
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Wrong thread, but for reasons you have no interest in, finding out you voted leave...
Oh well, I like your posts but fuck ,,, I guess politics and well everything else doesn't mix.
Please don't divulge anymore, leave us with something ..
You like Cats / Dogs / Babies ... don't you ??
I’ve got time for
Dr Rocktopus
and think you may be eschewing his explanation.As an outside observer who didn’t delve too deep into Brexit, I will say I don’t believe it to be a right-wing nationalist campaign - I know and respect people who voted both sides and there were logical reasons to go both ways. I believe you should have remained, but it isn’t my prerogative. I do think, in the over-arcing macro sense (which I think Jerry was getting at) it’s something of a symptom of the global shift right. Populist-nationalist-conservative politics is regaining a foothold in many countries, and damagingly so to varying degrees. As I said, there were a lot of reasons to vote Leave, more than I know I’m sure, but there was a section of that campaign that played to nationalist ideals and a section of the voters taken in by it.
At the end of the day I hold one maxim to be true, and I’ve told many others the same - if you aren’t big enough to have your politics questioned and respond with gentlemanly discourse, then don’t discuss politics. I hope
ChiversRegal
doesn’t leave, as I have a lot of time for him as well. Adults, at least I’d like to think so even in this period of political upheaval, can discuss divergent opinions and at the very least agree to disagree. There’s no reason for any of us to respond in punitive means.As you say, the Leavers won the election. Any other debates at this point are purely speculative.
I don’t believe in a United States of Europe with Germany at the helm. I believe we should be trusted to make, and abide by, our own laws without outside interference. We are a grown up country. I don’t think that view represents a mistrust of other European countries in general terms.
I like dogs.
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OK sure, just feels weird when the UK and the British Empire is based on a certain philosophy but the regards the EU the reverse stands*
* I fully appreciate this is not a political forum nor am I trying to get at you.
There is no British Empire. The opposition to the ceding of our right to live by our own laws is not imperialist or necessarily right wing. It’s quite frantic to suggest otherwise. Personally I hope that this vote gets overturned and we can leave the shell of democracy behind us. We’ll all know where we stand then, or kneel.
I’ve got time for
As an outside observer who didn’t delve too deep into Brexit, I will say I don’t believe it to be a right-wing nationalist campaign - I know and respect people who voted both sides and there were logical reasons to go both ways. I believe you should have remained, but it isn’t my prerogative. I do think, in the over-arcing macro sense (which I think Jerry was getting at) it’s something of a symptom of the global shift right. Populist-nationalist-conservative politics is regaining a foothold in many countries, and damagingly so to varying degrees. As I said, there were a lot of reasons to vote Leave, more than I know I’m sure, but there was a section of that campaign that played to nationalist ideals and a section of the voters taken in by it.
At the end of the day I hold one maxim to be true, and I’ve told many others the same - if you aren’t big enough to have your politics questioned and respond with gentlemanly discourse, then don’t discuss politics. I hope
As you say, the Leavers won the election. Any other debates at this point are purely speculative.
On a baser level many people object to the moralising of the German government. (Our leaders in the EU) A country whose human rights record hardly bears scrutiny in comparatively recent years. Once that generation is forgotten it’s full steam ahead, and the devil take the hindmost. For me? I’ll be living in the Hebrides and arguing the toss with the cow men and other animal husbandrististas (if that’s a word, which I doubt it is). Cheer Will.
The EU is as democratic as the UK and when it comes to moralising, the rump of the British Empire is in no position to try to hold the moral high ground. The very sad truth is the brutality of the colonial powers only became an issue in world terms when they turned on each other.
The EU is a members club, its a walk in the park in comparison to how the UK came about never mind the British Empire. We had a referendum for more democracy and no one was interested, so we retained the antiquated first past the post and the unelected quasi German Saxe Coebergs, cos were British 'innit.
The EU is a members club, its a walk in the park in comparison to how the UK came about never mind the British Empire. We had a referendum for more democracy and no one was interested, so we retained the antiquated first past the post and the unelected quasi German Saxe Coebergs, cos were British 'innit.
Fucking lol. Do you think that a vote like that would have had the blessing of the EU? If we stick with these jokers that vote would be illegal in 10 years time. But, as I said, I hope you get it overturned. For me, at least, it would confirm something I’ve suspected for years.
And what British Empire?
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You lost me there
I’m definitely not insinuating that everyone who voted leave is a moron. Like I said, I understand that people had plenty of different reasons for their choices. I was referring to the broader promotional drive being right-wing, which swept up a lot of racist right-wing morons along the way. The fact that so many left-wing Labour voters chose ‘leave’ shows that it was more complex than a shoot-out between bigots and sane people. I’ve read plenty of logical reasons behind ‘leave’ votes that I can sympathise with, so I’m not lumping millions of people under one banner.
But yes, Trump and Brexit are connected. Just as there were people who voted for Trump because they were fed up with the political status quo and the bland media lip service offered by Clinton, there were many more who voted for him due to his appeal to small-minded nationalism. That’s the parallel. Not everyone who voted Brexit or Trump is a dumb racist, but every dumb racist in the UK or the US voted leave or Trump. That’s my view.
Anyway, it’s a highly emotive subject and I will do my best to stay clear of it in the future. Just know I’m not painting all leave or Trump voters with the same brush, and I respect individual independent reasons for voting either way when they aren’t driven by the media narrative.
And fuck West Sham.
Chaps,I fully understand the EU is still an emotive issue, but.. West Ham are in their biggest crisis/melt down in living history... Let's not take our eye of the ball with the real issues here 
Aye, there's a 'Brexit' thread for this kind of bollocks. What I'm looking forward to is 'Bubblegone'.
That’s laudable Jerry, but that’s not what you meant when you fired off your generalisation. You still can’t stop yourself from using phrases like ‘right wing morons’. I’ve been left of centre all my life, but people like you accuse me of being a ‘right wing moron’. This is the divide and I hope you and Paddy get what you want. That’s far more important than silly things like democracy and I’m happy to live under your dictatorship - just leave me alone in future.
There’s a lot of dumb racism and predudice in many aspects of politics, it exists in parts of the left as well as right.
That isn't correct at all. I know a guy that is a committed racist who voted remain because he was worried about his shares portfolio.
Trump doesn't equal Brexit. That's just lazy journalists who have a poor understanding of both issues.