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Player Dejan Kulusevski

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FightingIllini said:
I find the case that he's a one-trick-pony who has been found out by PL defenses deeply unconvincing.

Even amid otherwise desultory performances he still has moments where he makes a fool of his defender 1v1.
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I'm avoiding any inconvenient questions here but I'd like to know, when this all reaches it's predictable denouement, will you be there with as many words saying how you had it so, so wrong or will you, like so many of the Dele folks, just face-savingly put it off on Kulu regressing? You know, you had it right all along but Kulu let you and your opinion down.

...and he's a 2-trick-pony FTR...but, rest assured, he is still pony...and a slow one at that
 
todd1882 said:
I'm avoiding any inconvenient questions here but I'd like to know, when this all reaches it's predictable denouement, will you be there with as many words saying how you had it so, so wrong or will you, like so many of the Dele folks, just face-savingly put it off on Kulu regressing? You know, you had it right all along but Kulu let you and your opinion down.

...and he's a 2-trick-pony FTR...but, rest assured, he is still pony...and a slow one at that
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Name five Premier League players not on the seven big clubs that you think are good.
 
Kulusevskis ratings have taken a dive since the start of March. Until then he was up there with the highest raters when fit.
Probably too soon to write him off. I get the impression though that he might be a bit streaky performance wise. Either brilliant or poor.
 
FightingIllini said:
Name five Premier League players not on the seven big clubs that you think are good.
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This is not germane to my question. I posed 'inconvenient' questions to you yesterday and you avoided them as well. What gives?

You are spilling tomes for this player and ignoring almost 9 months of evidence because of a few months of productive play (not overall play) when he first came. But there is evidence of what we are seeing now baked into those initial few months of "borderline world class" play. He was held in check by BHA , Villa and Brentford (Cucurella, Digne, and Henry...all players more athletic than Kulu) was petulant throughout those games. Evidence is there for you to see but you are avoiding it in order to hold on to your previous opinion. It amazes me that folks prefer to be right in the past but wrong currently.

So I ask, when this all comes to a head will you be raising your hand and saying how wrong you were? Simple question...and I ask it because those that can admit it can learn from it. We have ~75% in a poll saying keep this player...that's a sad number of folks that don't want better for the club. Will your mea culpa be as loud as your blind support for this player? It's the internet, it never is as loud...and that's why the bookmark function is so great.

And to be clear, no one is saying this player is without competency. What I am saying is that the things in which he has competence cannot be put in play because he lacks the more fundamental athletic ability for this league. He would have to simplify his game relative to his athletic ability to be a consistent player. And it's not worth persevering for so little upside...unless folks just need a new Lamela for the next 7 years.
 
Think people are reading too much into his lack of form.

The way we set up and play has suffocated our attacking players.

He’s also still only young. He’s definitely earned enough leeway to get a shot under a new manager

Wasn’t too long ago Kane/Son/Kulu looked like one of the most potent attacks going
 
Steed_Train said:
Think people are reading too much into his lack of form.
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Perhaps you aren't reading enough into it...
Steed_Train said:
The way we set up and play has suffocated our attacking players.
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Yeah? You mean golden boot Sonny or 24 goal Kane?
Steed_Train said:
He’s also still only young. He’s definitely earned enough leeway to get a shot under a new manager
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Right but this is his 4 or 5 first team season...how long is a PL career? Pretty sure it would put him mid-career. Now with that new perspective how's he look?

And you don't buy a player that is not yours to give him a "shot under a new manager"...that's foolish. That is exactly what the 18 month try before you buy was for. Or would you prefer to kick the can down the road on this? Seems to be a thing with us.
Steed_Train said:
Wasn’t too long ago Kane/Son/Kulu looked like one of the most potent attacks going
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You mean over a year ago? Because afterward it seems...

The Dealer said:
Kulusevskis ratings have taken a dive since the start of March.
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maybe those few games where he scored were just part of a purple patch and we are seeing the Kulu from Juve this season...surely not good enough to make permanent and assume all the risk just so a new manager can kick the tires.
 
The last 18 months for our team has been a rollercoaster. I don't know how you hold that against a young player who showed similar rollercoaster type form over the same period - incidentally coinciding with our ups and downs as a team, and with other players form.

You are willingly choosing to ignore relevant evidence to get to your conclusion.
 
todd1882 said:
Perhaps you aren't reading enough into it...

Yeah? You mean golden boot Sonny or 24 goal Kane?

Right but this is his 4 or 5 first team season...how long is a PL career? Pretty sure it would put him mid-career. Now with that new perspective how's he look?

And you don't buy a player that is not yours to give him a "shot under a new manager"...that's foolish. That is exactly what the 18 month try before you buy was for. Or would you prefer to kick the can down the road on this? Seems to be a thing with us.

You mean over a year ago? Because afterward it seems...


maybe those few games where he scored were just part of a purple patch and we are seeing the Kulu from Juve this season...surely not good enough to make permanent and assume all the risk just so a new manager can kick the tires.
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You have a shit ton of replies in this thread.

Surely if you don’t like the player you post your answer and go??

Are you hoping more will listen to your revelation and then join together to get a Kulu Out movement going?
 
todd1882 said:
This is not germane to my question. I posed 'inconvenient' questions to you yesterday and you avoided them as well. What gives?

You are spilling tomes for this player and ignoring almost 9 months of evidence because of a few months of productive play (not overall play) when he first came. But there is evidence of what we are seeing now baked into those initial few months of "borderline world class" play. He was held in check by BHA , Villa and Brentford (Cucurella, Digne, and Henry...all players more athletic than Kulu) was petulant throughout those games. Evidence is there for you to see but you are avoiding it in order to hold on to your previous opinion. It amazes me that folks prefer to be right in the past but wrong currently.

So I ask, when this all comes to a head will you be raising your hand and saying how wrong you were? Simple question...and I ask it because those that can admit it can learn from it. We have ~75% in a poll saying keep this player...that's a sad number of folks that don't want better for the club. Will your mea culpa be as loud as your blind support for this player? It's the internet, it never is as loud...and that's why the bookmark function is so great.

And to be clear, no one is saying this player is without competency. What I am saying is that the things in which he has competence cannot be put in play because he lacks the more fundamental athletic ability for this league. He would have to simplify his game relative to his athletic ability to be a consistent player. And it's not worth persevering for so little upside...unless folks just need a new Lamela for the next 7 years.
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I mean whatever, the truth is the truth, he plays well or he doesn't. I'm not a "Dele was always bad" guy.

I asked the question of you because I've never seen you say a player was good with the exception of guys playing in foreign leagues where the things they could offer on a Premier League pitch are purely hypothetical.

"All players are bad" would make for a funny schtick and contains a certain germ of truth, but I don't think you would admit to that being your view.
 
FightingIllini said:
I mean whatever, the truth is the truth, he plays well or he doesn't. I'm not a "Dele was always bad" guy.

I asked the question of you because I've never seen you say a player was good with the exception of guys playing in foreign leagues where the things they could offer on a Premier League pitch are purely hypothetical.

"All players are bad" would make for a funny schtick and contains a certain germ of truth, but I don't think you would admit to that being your view.
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And I'd directly answer your question but you still haven't answered my question...will your takes be proportional? Folks tend to hide or rationalize when the gig is up on these players.

And yes, all players are bad in the sense that they all have deficiencies along with their strengths and it is reductive to say player A is good while player B is not. Player A can do certain things but not others while player B can do his respective things and not others...that's it. If people understood that whatever then they'd better understand that whatever Kulu can do he can't do it in the PL. His lack of athleticism precludes this ATM...unless he were to simplify his game and become a 1 touch merchant but then that would negate all the stuff most folks think he is and it sure as hell wouldn't amount to goals which is what built up his profile here.
 
FightingIllini said:
No. Sorry. I find it a bit of a bore to shit on players who are bad.

Maybe I should try your method of shitting on players who are good.
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So do you act in bad faith often?*

And I accurately portray a players performances and potential.

FightingIllini said:
I asked the question of you because I've never seen you say a player was good with the exception of guys playing in foreign leagues where the things they could offer on a Premier League pitch are purely hypothetical.
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...and have you seen me inaccurate or wrong often? then perhaps that's your answer and there's no shitting going on. Maybe I don't go crazy over players because they shouldn't get gold stars for doing that which they are paid millions to do. For their profile, adulation, and remuneration they shouldn't have the basic deficiencies that they have. Pointing that out is not the blithely dismissive "shitting on" them, as you say.

*they always say that reasonable people can disagree. I have come to believe that that is for the very rare occasion. In most cases 1 party is acting in bad faith.
 
FightingIllini said:
Name five Premier League players not on the seven big clubs that you think are good.
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In good faith I said I'd answer your question...first off, who the fuck are the "seven big clubs"? I'll utilize the big 6 of MU, MC, CH, LP, TH, WL...

BTW this will be easy as I've often said a league-winning team can be picked of 25 players NOT on a big 6 teams... Deuterz Deuterz was my latest victim and he did very well...but this task is even easier since it's just players that are good in my estimation and ignoring qualities matching systems...(just going down the table till I get to 5)

Joelinton
Isak
Guimaraes
Douglas Luiz
Jacob Ramsey
Caicedo

all players I'd be interested in or seeing more of...gave you six because I took so many from NUFC but I'm pretty familiar with all 3 of those since before their Newcastle days. But all have shown longer and more consistently than your boy Kulu...
 
todd1882 said:
In good faith I said I'd answer your question...first off, who the fuck are the "seven big clubs"? I'll utilize the big 6 of MU, MC, CH, LP, TH, WL...

BTW this will be easy as I've often said a league-winning team can be picked of 25 players NOT on a big 6 teams... Deuterz Deuterz was my latest victim and he did very well...but this task is even easier since it's just players that are good in my estimation and ignoring qualities matching systems...(just going down the table till I get to 5)

Joelinton
Isak
Guimaraes
Douglas Luiz
Jacob Ramsey
Caicedo

all players I'd be interested in or seeing more of...gave you six because I took so many from NUFC but I'm pretty familiar with all 3 of those since before their Newcastle days. But all have shown longer and more consistently than your boy Kulu...
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Cheers. And agreed on all counts.

The big seven clubs are the big six plus Newcastle, they're in that tier and never going back, that's crystal clear by now.

Haaland will win Player of the Season and deserves it, but Guimaraes ought to get real consideration, he's not hyped as much as he should be. Patrick Vieira reborn.
 
I wish we flip our wingers a bit more often. I think the inverted winger has become a bit too predictable for a lot of players. I miss the same foot winger. The one time I remember Kulu popping up on the left he scored a great low and hard shot. Much in the way Bale used to do. An underrated shot and less telegraphed. Son too, rarely gets a shot off these days when he cuts inside.
 
BlackLips said:
I wish we flip our wingers a bit more often. I think the inverted winger has become a bit too predictable for a lot of players. I miss the same foot winger. The one time I remember Kulu popping up on the left he scored a great low and hard shot. Much in the way Bale used to do. An underrated shot and less telegraphed. Son too, rarely gets a shot off these days when he cuts inside.
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Rarely a decent cross comes in on the run much anymore. Anderton's right foot at pace was a particular thing of beauty IMO.

Miss it a bit myself tbh.
 
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