Player Destiny Udogie

[erlee]

i dont blame him for being loose at the back... he mostly play up front & concentrate his efforts in attacking in the opp's penalty box. VDV usually mops it up for him but yesterday unfortunately VDV had an avg game.

Udogie in action up front- right footer was saved by seagull goalie
(we have attackers who cant score and defenders who dont defend )
we are unique -no other teams have backs up like that in the box for doZens of times

 

[Kaz Hirai]

i dont blame him for being loose at the back... he mostly play up front & concentrate his efforts in attacking in the opp's penalty box. VDV usually mops it up for him but yesterday unfortunately VDV had an avg game.

Udogie in action up front- right footer was saved by seagull goalie
(we have attackers who cant score and defenders who dont defend )
we are unique -no other teams have backs up like that in the box for doZens of times

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there isnt a gap at LB though, when he's out of position like that VDV has dropped into that space, and the Holding mid has positioned himself closer to Romero who have pushed up on the halfway line to squeeze the opponents and potentially catch them offside should they go long .

I don't find it particular controversial, it just requires alot of quality to stop to finish off the chances that are created to kill games completely off and a huge amount of pressing effort and concentration to stop transitions

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

i dont blame him for being loose at the back... he mostly play up front & concentrate his efforts in attacking in the opp's penalty box. VDV usually mops it up for him but yesterday unfortunately VDV had an avg game.

Udogie in action up front- right footer was saved by seagull goalie
(we have attackers who cant score and defenders who dont defend )

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Part of my fear about Ange's chaos ball is it's specificity. It's pretty unique and hard to initially learn for experienced players. What worries me is that Destiny Udogie, and Mickey Van Der Ven have NOT fully learned the fundamentals of playing left centerback and left back in an orthodox four.

Udogie is so similar in the profile of the mistakes he makes to Kyle Walker it's like they cloned him. The loose passing the sliced clearances the over reliance on physicality to solve problems. I recall with fondness the rows about playing Vedran Courluka over him, and with due respect to a good player Walkers career has crushed him.

But Walker only got there because Pochettino actually TAUGHT him and Danny Rose the fundamentals. And trust me (apart from the Doncaster ignorant) Destiny Udogie has much more to work with than Rose did. I really fear that we may do more long term harm than good to some of our brilliant youngsters.

 

[Starks]

Part of my fear about Ange's chaos ball is it's specificity. It's pretty unique and hard to initially learn for experienced players. What worries me is that Destiny Udogie, and Mickey Van Der Ven have NOT fully learned the fundamentals of playing left centerback and left back in an orthodox four.

Udogie is so similar in the profile of the mistakes he makes to Kyle Walker it's like they cloned him. The loose passing the sliced clearances the over reliance on physicality to solve problems. I recall with fondness the rows about playing Vedran Courluka over him, and with due respect to a good player Walkers career has crushed him.

But Walker only got there because Pochettino actually TAUGHT him and Danny Rose the fundamentals. And trust me (apart from the Doncaster ignorant) Destiny Udogie has much more to work with than Rose did. I really fear that we may do more long term harm than good to some of our brilliant youngsters.

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Walker was never a good defender at Spurs. Ever.

He always relied on his pace to get him out of trouble. Rose, to his credit, was a much better defender than Walker.

There's this revisionist view that Walker was improved defensively under Poch, but it's complete bollocks. So much so that people were actually happy with Trippier coming in to replace Walker when we sold him. Because whilst there may not have been much in it defensively, Trippier "offered more offensively"

Us having a great defensive record doesn't mean Walker was a good defender. We used his strengths (ridiculous pace) to help the way we defended because it was high but he was never good defensively, just a freak athlete who benefitted from the system we implemented.

Udogie, even when at Udinese, struck me as someone who didn't care for defending much. But like Walker, is a bit of a freak athletically and can rely on it at times. But even early last season I was calling him out for letting crosses in too easily or being quite weak in engagement.

He's just a flawed footballer, like many we have. When their strengths are highlighted and they're on song, brilliant. When their weaknesses are targeted, it can be a struggle. We see that with Romero, we see it with Son, we see it with Bentancur, Maddison etc.

 

[bonaspur23]

Was he match-fixing ?

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Please tell me this is sarcasm

 

[Richard Arlison]

Please tell me this is sarcasm

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He was that bad. So was the whole team in that second half.

 

[bonaspur23]

He was that bad. So was the whole team in that second half.

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Yes sometimes players are bad.

Suggesting they are match fixing is some bullshit. Imagine someone accused you of shit like that every time you messed up in life.

Treat the players like people.

 

[Richard Arlison]

Yes sometimes players are bad.

Suggesting they are match fixing is some bullshit. Imagine someone accused you of shit like that every time you messed up in life.

Treat the players like people.

Click to shrink...

Treat the fans like people and don't put up crap like last night.

And let's remove Udogie the individual for a second here, I don't know him personally so have zero reason to actually suspect him as a person of match-fixing.

But the sheer volume of players getting done for betting and the very suspect relationships that football has with betting syndicates needs further investigation.

 

[bonaspur23]

Treat the fans like people and don't put up crap like last night.

And let's remove Udogie the individual for a second here, I don't know him personally so have zero reason to actually suspect him as a person of match-fixing.

But the sheer volume of players getting done for betting and the very suspect relationships that football has with betting syndicates needs further investigation.

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There’s 0 evidence there was match fixing. Was that the first ever loss when leading 0-2 at halftime? There’s probably been thousands like that. And how many due to match fixing? Maybe one or two tops?

Also factor in that these players are very well paid and that makes match fixing more unlikely.

It’s just disrespectful to throw out serious accusations like that which are close to a 0% chance of being true.

 

[Richard Arlison]

There’s 0 evidence there was match fixing. Was that the first ever loss when leading 0-2 at halftime? There’s probably been thousands like that. And how many due to match fixing? Maybe one or two tops?

Also factor in that these players are very well paid and that makes match fixing more unlikely.

It’s just disrespectful to throw out serious accusations like that which are close to a 0% chance of being true.

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We actually hold the record now as a club in the PL era being the first to lose from 2-0 up. We have done it 10 times.


Of course, there is no evidence but the circumstances were perfect for it.


Players are well paid but Tonali and Toney both had gambling issues. Paqueta as well. If people think that the stuff about betting syndicates and the PL doesn't need investigation then they are in denial.

 

[AlabamaSpur]

I think LB is the place where we need to spend some money and get a real player. Udogie is fine, but I just dont think he can consistently be someone that defends well. He seems to have mental lapses quite often

 

[jonomarch]

nothing wrong with destiny he had a bad game out of all the players we have how many times he has bad games. Why did the team stop pressing we went to a half ass press where it was beaten time and time again

 

[superspurs61]

nothing wrong with destiny he had a bad game out of all the players we have how many times he has bad games. Why did the team stop pressing we went to a half ass press where it was beaten time and time again

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First half Brighton were caught out countless time with their highish press 2nd half
Their manager just dropped the defence deeper and made sure the wide men were 'hit' quicker as both, on the day, had the measure of both porro and destiny.. simple but effective.

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

Walker was never a good defender at Spurs. Ever.

He always relied on his pace to get him out of trouble. Rose, to his credit, was a much better defender than Walker.

There's this revisionist view that Walker was improved defensively under Poch, but it's complete bollocks. So much so that people were actually happy with Trippier coming in to replace Walker when we sold him. Because whilst there may not have been much in it defensively, Trippier "offered more offensively"

Us having a great defensive record doesn't mean Walker was a good defender. We used his strengths (ridiculous pace) to help the way we defended because it was high but he was never good defensively, just a freak athlete who benefitted from the system we implemented.

Udogie, even when at Udinese, struck me as someone who didn't care for defending much. But like Walker, is a bit of a freak athletically and can rely on it at times. But even early last season I was calling him out for letting crosses in too easily or being quite weak in engagement.

He's just a flawed footballer, like many we have. When their strengths are highlighted and they're on song, brilliant. When their weaknesses are targeted, it can be a struggle. We see that with Romero, we see it with Son, we see it with Bentancur, Maddison etc.

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Totally disagree. And you miss the substative point. Walker 100% improved I went to near every game that last season at WHL. You claiming he was wasnt very solid defensively just belies logic and reality frankly I think it's totally bollocks. That Pep Guardiola paid a world record for a fullback tells you how much better he'd become and he was way better than Rose. Now if you are saying that Pep made the finished article ( or as near as he became) then fair enough. But I watched him live numerous times he was excellent zero revision needed from where I was sat. Udogie is a child he needs coaching on the basics of effective fullback play, it's a part of a few players issues in this current detour we have taken that might take a fair bit of fixing. We will have to agree to differ. But this is the core issue I'm addressing.

 

[FOK]

He made a few errors last season but he also had a lot of good games. I’m not gonna give up on based off an admittedly poor performance yesterday.

 

[Starks]

Totally disagree. And you miss the point. Walker 100% improved I went to near every game that last season at WHL. You claiming he was wasnt very solid defensively just belies logic and reality frankly I think it's totally bollocks. That Pep Guardiola paid a world record for a fullback tells you how much better he'd become and he was way better than Rose. Now if you are saying that Pep made the finished article or as near as he became then fair enough. But I watched him live numerous times he was excellent zero revisionneeded. Udogie is a child he needs coaching on the basics of effective fullback, it's a part of a few players issues in this current detour we have taken that might take a fair bit of fixing. We will have to agree yo differ.

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No, the team improved. So your overall perception of the team and the players changed. Quite normal in football.

It's the exact same way Johnson is all of a sudden great but just 7 games ago he was shit, waste of money and got so much abuse he had to delete his social media. How Romero is world class when we're on form and a liability who doesn't care when he conceded a goal and makes a mistake.

You're never going to convince me Walker improved defensively. I watched the same games you did. The amount of times his pace would get him out of trouble, the numerous times he'd be the wrong side of his man. The only thing that improved was the quality of players around him, a system that benefited every single player in the eleven which in turn caused us to control and dominate some games so much so that defensively, we didn't look troubled.

Guardiola didn't splash the cash on Walker for his defensive abilities. He bought him because he knew what his strengths could bring to his City vision (high line, rapid recovery pace) and weaken a rival in the process.

Udogie simply needs to stay switched on. He lapses far too often, that's on him, not the coaches.

 

[Kaz Hirai]

He made a few errors last season but he also had a lot of good games. I’m not gonna give up on based off an admittedly poor performance yesterday.

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easy to forget his age, he will have gotten a roasting in the game analysis this morning. Lets see how he responds...hopefully better than Romero who keeps making the same mistake over and over again

 

[bonaspur23]

He made a few errors last season but he also had a lot of good games. I’m not gonna give up on based off an admittedly poor performance yesterday.

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I wouldn’t give up on him but we need to consider a more dynamic option there.

How many times does Udogie get a pass up the line from the left winger and then either just turn around and go backwards or play a cutback to no one?

We can probably count on one hand the number of times he has found a teammate for a scoring chance on a cutback.

Udogie is a solid player and has a future here. He often dominates his matchup. But even on his best games, he adds very little in the final 3rd and this is a team that needs all the help it can get in the final 3rd.

I’d love to say he just needs to improve but he’s improved very little since he got here, which is concerning. He needs another complimentary left back with a different skillset. Maybe that’s Spence but there aren’t many right footed left backs.

 

[1882]

Was he match-fixing ?

Click to shrink...

Please tell me this is sarcasm

Click to shrink...

He was that bad. So was the whole team in that second half.

Click to shrink...

Yes sometimes players are bad.

Suggesting they are match fixing is some bullshit. Imagine someone accused you of shit like that every time you messed up in life.

Treat the players like people.

Click to shrink...

Treat the fans like people and don't put up crap like last night.

And let's remove Udogie the individual for a second here, I don't know him personally so have zero reason to actually suspect him as a person of match-fixing.

But the sheer volume of players getting done for betting and the very suspect relationships that football has with betting syndicates needs further investigation.

Click to shrink...

There’s 0 evidence there was match fixing. Was that the first ever loss when leading 0-2 at halftime? There’s probably been thousands like that. And how many due to match fixing? Maybe one or two tops?

Also factor in that these players are very well paid and that makes match fixing more unlikely.

It’s just disrespectful to throw out serious accusations like that which are close to a 0% chance of being true.

Click to shrink...

We actually hold the record now as a club in the PL era being the first to lose from 2-0 up. We have done it 10 times.


Of course, there is no evidence but the circumstances were perfect for it.


Players are well paid but Tonali and Toney both had gambling issues. Paqueta as well. If people think that the stuff about betting syndicates and the PL doesn't need investigation then they are in denial.

Click to shrink...

There's no way that was fixed... It was TOO obvious!
As they say, if you're gonna cheat in a test, don't draw attention by giving yourself 100% ...go in under the radar at 75/80%
Losing a 2-0 like that was SO blatant, it had to be ineptitude!

I think LB is the place where we need to spend some money and get a real player. Udogie is fine, but I just dont think he can consistently be someone that defends well. He seems to have mental lapses quite often

Click to shrink...

...maybe he can put some of yesterday's WINNINGS towards finding a replacement?!!

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

No, the team improved. So your overall perception of the team and the players changed. Quite normal in football.

It's the exact same way Johnson is all of a sudden great but just 7 games ago he was shit, waste of money and got so much abuse he had to delete his social media. How Romero is world class when we're on form and a liability who doesn't care when he conceded a goal and makes a mistake.

You're never going to convince me Walker improved defensively. I watched the same games you did. The amount of times his pace would get him out of trouble, the numerous times he'd be the wrong side of his man. The only thing that improved was the quality of players around him, a system that benefited every single player in the eleven which in turn caused us to control and dominate some games so much so that defensively, we didn't look troubled.

Guardiola didn't splash the cash on Walker for his defensive abilities. He bought him because he knew what his strengths could bring to his City vision (high line, rapid recovery pace) and weaken a rival in the process.

Udogie simply needs to stay switched on. He lapses far too often, that's on him, not the coaches.

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Yeah..your logic falls down on the just like Johnson bit, his form had no effect on my perception. I said days ago Johnson had NOT changed, despite the form. Walker is the exact opposite. Always liable to make the same kind of issue but coached to minimise hence the stark improvement it. You won't convince me or I you, so let's save the go round as I said ATD