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England squad

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Tomo said:
The advantage Tuchel brings is he can coach how to attack even if he is primarily a defence first coach. Southgate could never coach anything beyond hoofing the ball which worked with Rashford and Sterling but doesn’t with Saka and Foden.
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I think he's a terrible attacking coach.

He is good at using the players at his disposal to win a football match though, enough to get a team over the line in a Tournament (way better than Southgate).

Southgate was 100% on the right lines of how to win an International tournament but lacked that final in-game tweak to put the oppo on the back foot (I'm talking about vs a good side) or recognise or react to an oppo coach who's doing that to us.

It is in these moments where I see Tuchel way superior, he is usually the manager that the oppo is trying to react to.

When Southgate looked to play a more expansive style, when we were up again dross, he fell into exactly the same trap as Hodgson (with Neville) did which was to select players that played in attacking, high-pressing club sides and copy thair formations and then said go do what you did for your Clubs. They didn't have a clue how to actually coach it (Southgate better understood it than Hodgson/Neville), didn't understand pressing traps and triggers, couldn't implement attacking patterns and counter-press moves with runners from midfield etc...

The real issue is attacking football, and I mean properly coached patterns and rotations and well-designed presses and counter-presses are myths in International football. That's because the managers do not have the time with the squad to train it (it's why Club managers take two years before you see their own teams click when doing it - as per Pep, Artetta, Ange, Klopp & Poch to name a few).
 
CarrieFi said:
I suppose if you win things, people won’t complain too much about a ‘negative’ or ‘boring’ style. However, if you play that way and nothing comes of it, then there’s no incentive to get behind it.

I’m not the biggest fan of Tuchel, but he has got experience of winning things, particularly in tournament football. Southgate, hasn’t
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I love to watch teams that want to get on the ball and play it and hate the opposite of this (there isn't a wrong or right way, just expressing my preference). But the rule of thumb is that it's harder to coach a team to play with the ball than it is to coach one that doesn't want the ball.

This is why International football is shit to watch because most including the best teams adopt a very negative brand of football because they don't have the time to coach a team that's on that wants the ball. I adore the Tournament vibe however, a carnival of football brought to life mainly by the supporters rather than the football. Basically, it's the opposite of League Club football.
 
Guido 🇺🇦 said:
I think he's a terrible attacking coach.

He is good at using the players at his disposal to win a football match though, enough to get a team over the line in a Tournament (way better than Southgate).

Southgate was 100% on the right lines of how to win an International tournament but lacked that final in-game tweak to put the oppo on the back foot (I'm talking about vs a good side) or recognise or react to an oppo coach who's doing that to us.

It is in these moments where I see Tuchel way superior, he is usually the manager that the oppo is trying to react to.

When Southgate looked to play a more expansive style, when we were up again dross, he fell into exactly the same trap as Hodgson (with Neville) did which was to select players that played in attacking, high-pressing club sides and copy thair formations and then said go do what you did for your Clubs. They didn't have a clue how to actually coach it (Southgate better understood it than Hodgson/Neville), didn't understand pressing traps and triggers, couldn't implement attacking patterns and counter-press moves with runners from midfield etc...

The real issue is attacking football, and I mean properly coached patterns and rotations and well-designed presses and counter-presses are myths in International football. That's because the managers do not have the time with the squad to train it (it's why Club managers take two years before you see their own teams click when doing it - as per Pep, Artetta, Ange, Klopp & Poch to name a few).
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Never figured why alot of managers can’t grow. Fergie apparently used to hire coaches/assistants who could do things he couldn't, when he wanted to adapt and change style he would do this. It seems remarkably rare for that to happen now. If Southgate hired a good tactician and had them driving both in game and out game maybe he could have covered his weakness.

I don’t know if managers are to egotistical or to insecure to say I am a good man manager but tactically I am shit I will hire an elite assistant.
 
bus-conductor said:
The thing is, I don't think Southgate intended to be a bus park coach, it's just what happens when you can't coach, or come up against coaches who actually can.
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I don't think Southgate was a bus park coach, his teams always dominated the ball for example. Mainly that was because we have a better quality of collective footballers available than the oppo, so even if Southgate wanted to play without the ball the oppo just simply wouldn't have enabled us to do this as their default would have been no we are going to sit deeper and you have the ball (ever seen a Moyes team, even with good players at his disposal know how to play with the ball, know what to do with it when the oppo want to sit even deeper than them?)

Southgate had a far better understanding of attacking principles than say Hodgson did, who just copied Poch with his team but didn't have a fucking clue how to actually get them to play like Tottenham despite having over half the team made up of Tottenham players!

Where Southgate's ability was most brutally exposed was vs Croatia and Italy. Two good teams, well coached, with good players but inferior players (Croatia had world-class players but were past their best. Italy with up-and-coming players). Southgate's England against these two were made to look quite ordinary, both showing a tactical plan which was well executed. What Mancini did with Italy was one of the best International Coaching feats in recent times.

In my opinion, Southgate was always on the right track with England, it's why we got to the pointy end of tournaments for the first time in my lifetime (with the exception of Euro '96). But he's not an elite coach, give him a couple of months to set up a team to play two games on the bounce and he's fine. Deep into a tournament, up against oppo that he hasn't had 2 months to study how they play and more importantly how we should play against them and he's toast every time. Unable to recognise where it's going wrong and unable to make changes to fix it. This is where Tuchel would be different (but I'd expect to see him bring in 2 sitting midfielders and play a conservative brand of football).
 
Tomo said:
Never figured why alot of managers can’t grow. Fergie apparently used to hire coaches/assistants who could do things he couldn't, when he wanted to adapt and change style he would do this. It seems remarkably rare for that to happen now. If Southgate hired a good tactician and had them driving both in game and out game maybe he could have covered his weakness.

I don’t know if managers are to egotistical or to insecure to say I am a good man manager but tactically I am shit I will hire an elite assistant.
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I'm still not sure that changes much with International squads purely because of the time the management team have with the squad.

It will be interesting to see what Poch can do with the septics. I'm guessing they'll play like we did in his last season with us???
 
Guido 🇺🇦 said:
I'm still not sure that changes much with International squads purely because of the time the management team have with the squad.

It will be interesting to see what Poch can do with the septics. I'm guessing they'll play like we did in his last season with us???
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It would change in game calls though. Spain are now able to play pretty decent football, it’s not impossible to get a management who can at least implement something. Eddie Howe got Newcastle playing decent football in 3-4 games and he is very flexible, a sort of modern day Harry Redknapp.
 
We all just saw against Greece that playing a load of brilliant attacking players ultimately means nothing if the balance isn't right. Imagine playing that way against a Germany or a Spain, it would have been a cricket score.

Tuchel is a much better version of Southgate. Someone that knows how to win things and get his teams over the line. He doesn't guarantee anything, but he's exactly what England need.
 
Tuchel is top. bus-conductor bus-conductor slobbers all over Nagelsmann but Tuchel is the far better tactician and much better at negotiating cup games.

We would be a force to be reckoned with.
 
Tomo said:
It would change in game calls though. Spain are now able to play pretty decent football, it’s not impossible to get a management who can at least implement something. Eddie Howe got Newcastle playing decent football in 3-4 games and he is very flexible, a sort of modern day Harry Redknapp.
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The named managers I gave as examples changed how there teams played in a very short period of time, however during their first couple of years their teams were very vulnerable at various points be that against a certain oppo profile or in a period where their first 11 wasn't available and lacked depth.

I've not got the full outlook on Howe as I didn't watch his teams as often and in as much detail as I did with the others but my take on Howe is he's a follower, not an innovator. I don't think he lives and breathes the brand of football he wants to play. I think he looks at a particular brand and says that's how I want to play one day.

Why don't Newcastle play the way they did last year? They are just a hoof-it-long team now, whereas last year they were aggressively pressing oppo teams high up the pitch.

I don't think Howe is a bad manager, far from it, but I don't see him as a tactical marvel, one that changes and reacts mid-game. When under pressure as he is now (I think they've been dog shit in every game this season, just lucky their oppo couldn't finish their dinner) he's reverted to underdog football, totally abandoned to a brand of football we have been told is his.

Spain is a fair shout but with them, they haven't changed how they play for years. It's just whether that squad at that time (time of a tournament) is collectively deeper/fitter than it was at the previously. I think this is the only major influence that determines how far they go in a tournament.
 
Guido 🇺🇦 said:
I don't think Southgate was a bus park coach, his teams always dominated the ball for example. Mainly that was because we have a better quality of collective footballers available than the oppo, so even if Southgate wanted to play without the ball the oppo just simply wouldn't have enabled us to do this as their default would have been no we are going to sit deeper and you have the ball (ever seen a Moyes team, even with good players at his disposal know how to play with the ball, know what to do with it when the oppo want to sit even deeper than them?)

Southgate had a far better understanding of attacking principles than say Hodgson did, who just copied Poch with his team but didn't have a fucking clue how to actually get them to play like Tottenham despite having over half the team made up of Tottenham players!

Where Southgate's ability was most brutally exposed was vs Croatia and Italy. Two good teams, well coached, with good players but inferior players (Croatia had world-class players but were past their best. Italy with up-and-coming players). Southgate's England against these two were made to look quite ordinary, both showing a tactical plan which was well executed. What Mancini did with Italy was one of the best International Coaching feats in recent times.

In my opinion, Southgate was always on the right track with England, it's why we got to the pointy end of tournaments for the first time in my lifetime (with the exception of Euro '96). But he's not an elite coach, give him a couple of months to set up a team to play two games on the bounce and he's fine. Deep into a tournament, up against oppo that he hasn't had 2 months to study how they play and more importantly how we should play against them and he's toast every time. Unable to recognise where it's going wrong and unable to make changes to fix it. This is where Tuchel would be different (but I'd expect to see him bring in 2 sitting midfielders and play a conservative brand of football).
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He wanted his team to dominate the ball, they generally only did it against weaker nations, nations whose coaches didn’t want to dominate the ball (Deschamps) or when game state dictated it. It could all turn to shite as soon as the opposition decided they wanted the ball.
 
Deuterz said:
Tuchel is top. bus-conductor bus-conductor slobbers all over Nagelsmann but Tuchel is the far better tactician and much better at negotiating cup games.

We would be a force to be reckoned with.
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I think Tuchel is a smart cookie. Imagine the humiliation though, Germany having to win you a trophy. (With the help of Ireland of course)
 
Deuterz said:
Wouldn’t care at all.
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Animation Lying GIF
 
bus-conductor said:
I think Tuchel is a smart cookie. Imagine the humiliation though, Germany having to win you a trophy. (With the help of Ireland of course)
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Nobody will care about the nationality of a manager if they help to win something. The same as nobody could care less that Sarina Wiegman is Dutch after the success she has brought the ladies team.

It was different for someone like Capello because he had never managed in England before and could barely speak English. Tuchel is fluent and has obviously spent time in the country managing an English club.
 
RicharliSon said:
Nobody will care about the nationality of a manager if they help to win something. The same as nobody could care less that Sarina Wiegman is Dutch after the success she has brought the ladies team.

It was different for someone like Capello because he had never managed in England before and could barely speak English. Tuchel is fluent and has obviously spent time in the country managing an English club.
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Spurs fan; according to posts here when he was linked to our last manager search.

PWOPPER LUNDAAHN!
 
RicharliSon said:
We all just saw against Greece that playing a load of brilliant attacking players ultimately means nothing if the balance isn't right. Imagine playing that way against a Germany or a Spain, it would have been a cricket score.

Tuchel is a much better version of Southgate. Someone that knows how to win things and get his teams over the line. He doesn't guarantee anything, but he's exactly what England need.
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Wouldn't mind him at WHL either....
 
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