Management ENIC

[Shadydan]

My comment about the club could have just upgraded the old stadium instead of building a new one was related to; The club is mainly currently targeting young players with potential, It's the sort of thing that happened with the old stadium with the likes of Walker, Berbatov, Modric, Bale et al not that it;s a bad thing to seek great potential. So the stadium hasn't really helped to bring in any quality ready made players to compete with the best teams in Europe, rather the club has reverted to seeking young players with potential. As I say the team the few years before the old stadium closed was better than the team of last season. Levy has failed to make the new stadium a game changer. The club is back to square one.

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Your logic is a bit weird.

Our wages were capped at £100k a week in that 2016/17 season, people talk about low wages now...we wouldn't be getting anywhere near what we pay now had we stayed in the old WHL.

That means there is a host of players we wouldn't have been able to buy let alone been able to keep or increase their salary.

The club haven't always reverted to seeking young players, this project youth has only really happened since Lange walked through the door which was 2 years ago.

 

[Ed Vanderlay]

Your logic is a bit weird.

Our wages were capped at £100k a week in that 2016/17 season, people talk about low wages now...we wouldn't be getting anywhere near what we pay now had we stayed in the old WHL.

That means there is a host of players we wouldn't have been able to buy let alone been able to keep or increase their salary.

The club haven't always reverted to seeking young players, this project youth has only really happened since Lange walked through the door which was 2 years ago.

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We could take the view Lange is executing his brief from Levy . Or one could choose to believe that Levy is instructing Lange to go and compete / find the best players and he is ignoring him and going rogue focusing on youth .

I think I will blame Lange for failing to sign a stadium naming rights deal whilst I’m at it

 

[dudu]

We could take the view Lange is executing his brief from Levy . Or one could choose to believe that Levy is instructing Lange to go and compete / find the best players and he is ignoring him and going rogue focusing on youth .

I think I will blame Lange for failing to sign a stadium naming rights deal whilst I’m at it

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OK lets be real here -

Did you honestly, for real, think that when we moved stadium, we would be competing with the likes of Man City, Real Madrid, Bayern, Chelsea for wages on players?

Also - over the last 3-4 years we haven't just focused on youth have we?

Maddison, Bissouma, Richalison, Romero, Porro, VDV, Solanke, Bentancur, Kulusevski - none youth.

So its is more likely that we are trying to balance things out with some younger players too - you know, trying to buy the next Modric, Bale, Romero's etc - because that's also what top fucking clubs do isn't it?

What is it with these completely blinkered views that ignore half our team and purchases?

 

[McCOYS]

Your logic is a bit weird.

Our wages were capped at £100k a week in that 2016/17 season, people talk about low wages now...we wouldn't be getting anywhere near what we pay now had we stayed in the old WHL.

That means there is a host of players we wouldn't have been able to buy let alone been able to keep or increase their salary.

The club haven't always reverted to seeking young players, this project youth has only really happened since Lange walked through the door which was 2 years ago.

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Most of the players that the club did sign since 2019 have been relatively ordinary anyway, or as per recently affordable because they are young with potential, so the new stadium hasn't amounted to anything. The old stadium could have been done up with an increased capacity making it more affordable to have the likes of the more experienced players that were signed, or as per Brentford, Brighton, and Bournemouth, as you say, the club could have employed better coaches, and make cheaper players better. The club could have still finished 5th and kept up with Aston Villa in the 2023/24 season, and with the same possibility of winning the Europa League final in May last season, if the same teams were the opposition, and probably would have been at least level if not higher in the league than 17th.

 

[Shadydan]

We could take the view Lange is executing his brief from Levy . Or one could choose to believe that Levy is instructing Lange to go and compete / find the best players and he is ignoring him and going rogue focusing on youth .

I think I will blame Lange for failing to sign a stadium naming rights deal whilst I’m at it

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[Shadydan]

Most of the players that the club did sign since 2019 have been relatively ordinary anyway, or as per recently affordable because they are young with potential, so the new stadium hasn't amounted to anything. The old stadium could have been done up with an increased capacity making it more affordable to have the likes of the more experienced players that were signed, or as per Brentford, Brighton, and Bournemouth, as you say, the club could have employed better coaches, and make cheaper players better. The club could have still finished 5th and kept up with Aston Villa in the 2023/24 season and have the same or similar standard players than the one's who were actually signed, with good coaching, with the same possibility of winning the Europa League final in May last season, if the same teams were the opposition, and probably would have been at least level if not higher in the league than 17th.

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So yeah you're essentially agreeing with me that the strategy and direction has been executed poorly since the new stadium was built, that's the issue here.

Moving stadiums was the right thing to do but the decision making since then has been piss poor, everyone acknowledges this though so you're not saying anything new.

Had we stayed in the old stadium our match day income doesn't increase and we're perennially capped at a salary budget we won't be able to sustain and money we won't spend.

Even if we expanded the old WHL we don't generate anywhere near the amount of cash we are making now, that would be a completely pointless move.

 

[Trotter]

When we were told the stadium was a game changer, I believed it. I thought it meant huge revenues and more money than ever being spent on the team.

Whilst that’s true to an extent, it’s certainly not lived up to the billing in my head at the time.

Got me thinking about other clubs that had any success in the years following a stadium move. Are there any? That lot along the road are just getting their shit together now and their hovel has been open almost 20 years. Did I underestimate how tough moving to a new stadium would be? Did Levy? Did we all?

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Plenty of teams have not been affected by stadium move

Atletico Madrid
Bayern Munich
For a couple of English ones
Brentford
Brighton

And plenty of teams have not been affected by significant expenditure on expanding their ground

Liverpool being the obvious one

The main difference though for the successful ones, is the owners continued funding the team before during and after stadium build, we didn’t shown by the massive PSR/FFP space we have had over the years, showing the underfunding compared to what we could have invested in the team alongside some very poor decisions in respect of recruitment.

 

[McCOYS]

So yeah you're essentially agreeing with me that the strategy and direction has been executed poorly since the new stadium was built, that's the issue here.

Moving stadiums was the right thing to do but the decision making since then has been piss poor, everyone acknowledges this though so you're not saying anything new.

Had we stayed in the old stadium our match day income doesn't increase and we're perennially capped at a salary budget we won't be able to sustain and money we won't spend.

Even if we expanded the old WHL we don't generate anywhere near the amount of cash we are making now, that would be a completely pointless move.

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The club is presently a few hundred million in debt with the transfer budget, and the team is mediocre. I'm struggling to think what good the new stadium has done. It's debatable that the best the team has achieved recently purely on footballing merit is to reach the Champions League final, having to play some of the very best teams along the way, Those players then were all purchased either when WHL was in use, or the time when Wembley was used for the home matches but I'd think mainly the former because in 2018 no players were signed.

Yes I do agree with you about the coaching, but that could mean that the club would not have needed to have signed expensive players and spent £700m since 2019, rather an upgrade to the old stadium would have sufficed.

 

[Ed Vanderlay]

OK lets be real here -

Did you honestly, for real, think that when we moved stadium, we would be competing with the likes of Man City, Real Madrid, Bayern, Chelsea for wages on players?

Also - over the last 3-4 years we haven't just focused on youth have we?

Maddison, Bissouma, Richalison, Romero, Porro, VDV, Solanke, Bentancur, Kulusevski - none youth.

So its is more likely that we are trying to balance things out with some younger players too - you know, trying to buy the next Modric, Bale, Romero's etc - because that's also what top fucking clubs do isn't it?

What is it with these completely blinkered views that ignore half our team and purchases?

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Yes let’s get real . We have invested but as usual to little to late . Look what Liverpool are doing having won the league , they have invested from a position of strength . When have we EVER done that, we invest to try and recover having slipped off the pace . Woolwich were well behind us , Villa and Newcastle were championship clubs very very recently . I don’t expect us to compete with City or Chelsea financially they are a bad example . In fact even United in financial turmoil I accept can still blow us away .

Levy spends to rectify his negligence of squad rebuilds imho . How many managers do you need to spell it out before you think maybe they are not all liars and there is more than a grain of truth in what they say .

Liverpool under Hicks and Gillette were in a terrible state . Who would you sooner own us FSG or ENIC

 

[Shadydan]

The club is presently a few hundred million in debt with the transfer budget, and the team is mediocre. I'm struggling to think what good the new stadium has done.

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Increased revenue meaning we can spend more and increase wages, as mentioned before the issue isn't the new stadium, it's the execution.

In your scenario had we stayed at the old stadium we would have fared far worse because we wouldn't have been able to support the pay rises or attract better players and pay them a higher wage.

It's debatable that the best the team has achieved recently purely on footballing merit is to reach the Champions League final, having to play some of the very best teams along the way, Those players then were all purchased either when WHL was in use, or the time when Wembley was used for the home matches but I'd think mainly the former because in 2018 no players were signed.

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Not sure what you're trying to say here?

Yes I do agree with you about the coaching, but that could mean that the club would not have needed to have signed expensive players and spent £700m since 2019, rather an upgrade to the old stadium would have sufficed.

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As I keep saying an upgrade of the old stadium doesn't do anything for us, a few extra thousand seats more doesn't get us anywhere near to the match day revenue and gate receipts now.

 

[dudu]

Yes let’s get real . We have invested but as usual to little to late . Look what Liverpool are doing having won the league , they have invested from a position of strength . When have we EVER done that, we invest to try and recover having slipped off the pace . Woolwich were well behind us , Villa and Newcastle were championship clubs very very recently . I don’t expect us to compete with City or Chelsea financially they are a bad example . In fact even United in financial turmoil I accept can still blow us away .

Levy spends to rectify his negligence of squad rebuilds imho . How many managers do you need to spell it out before you think maybe they are not all liars and there is more than a grain of truth in what they say .

Liverpool under Hicks and Gillette were in a terrible state . Who would you sooner own us FSG or ENIC

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Who did Liverpool invest in the last two seasons to win the league?

Without VVD and Salah who they signed years ago, they aren't winning the league man.

They sold Firminho and bought in Nunez, sold Mane and bought in Diaz.... neither contributed to their prem title last year.

I have shown my workings. We dont just buy youth, which is what I was responding to, but you have made this all about something else and are ranting about the same stuff without any nuance or context.

I swear your obsessed and I mean weirdly and completely so obsessed with how much you dislike the owners that you are simply incapable of having a back and forth without leaning into this kind of rant.

 

[Ed Vanderlay]

Who did Liverpool invest in the last two seasons to win the league?

Without VVD and Salah who they signed years ago, they aren't winning the league man.

They sold Firminho and bought in Nunez, sold Mane and bought in Diaz.... neither contributed to their prem title last year.

I have shown my workings. We dont just buy youth, which is what I was responding to, but you have made this all about something else and are ranting about the same stuff without any nuance or context.

I swear your obsessed and I mean weirdly and completely so obsessed with how much you dislike the owners that you are simply incapable of having a back and forth without leaning into this kind of rant.

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Yeah you seem very balanced and nuanced in your views .

Not every signing is a success obviously , but buying Nunez and Diaz reinforces my argument of investing from strength . Some didn’t work out so they have gone again , Diaz is not the disaster Nunez is

 

[Shadydan]

I swear your obsessed and I mean weirdly and completely so obsessed with how much you dislike the owners that you are simply incapable of having a back and forth without leaning into this kind of rant.

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Makes it really difficult to engage with him tbh

 

[dudu]

Yeah you seem very balanced and nuanced in your views .

Not every signing is a success obviously , but buying Nunez and Diaz reinforces my argument of investing from strength . Some didn’t work out so they have gone again , Diaz is not the disaster Nunez is

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We were talking about only having a remit to buy youth.

Now you want to change the story.

So yes, we did not buy from a position of strength previously, whilst we were building a new stadium.

But we did spent SHIT LOADS after we got to a CL final did we not..... Ndombele, Lo Celso - record signings, record wages - Ndombele 200k a week.

Some work out, some do not.

Also, Liverpool finished 5th a few years back and invested in themselves at that point from a position of weakness. What position of strength did they purchase Diaz and Nunez from exactly?

You are talking in binary terms from a position where your dislike for our chairman is the only truth on which to base every single opinion.

 

[Ed Vanderlay]

Makes it really difficult to engage with him tbh

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Well there is an ignore option. I’m a big boy I can take it

 

[Shadydan]

Well there is an ignore option. I’m a big boy I can take it

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Don't really wanna do that, the only time you lose your head is when it comes to the topic of ENIC

 

[Ed Vanderlay]

We were talking about only having a remit to buy youth.

Now you want to change the story.

So yes, we did not buy from a position of strength previously, whilst we were building a new stadium.

But we did spent SHIT LOADS after we got to a CL final did we not..... Ndombele, Lo Celso - record signings, record wages - Ndombele 200k a week.

Some work out, some do not.

Also, Liverpool finished 5th a few years back and invested in themselves at that point from a position of weakness. What position of strength did they purchase Diaz and Nunez from exactly?

You are talking in binary terms from a position where your dislike for our chairman is the only truth on which to base every single opinion.

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I have regularly admitted I’m biased and can’t stand him . You seem to believe because you support him you are not biased , I beg to differ .

I have said he did a good job on the new stadium , but he tarnished it in my view by it not being the promised game changer . But I do think on the football side he has been mostly a disaster . I think Poch did well in spite of him

 

[Ed Vanderlay]

Don't really wanna do that, the only time you lose your head is when it comes to the topic of ENIC

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I will admit I am far more rational on other things , even things on here other than Levy / ENIC . I am aware of it as I readily fess up to it . He / they just really grind my gears , but I am far far from alone

 

[dudu]

I have regularly admitted I’m biased and can’t stand him . You seem to believe because you support him you are not biased , I beg to differ .

I have said he did a good job on the new stadium , but he tarnished it in my view by it not being the promised game changer . But I do think on the football side he has been mostly a disaster . I think Poch did well in spite of him

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LOL I do not support him - but lets get this straight.

You are admittedly biased
You admittedly post biased stuff
I push back on the stuff that you admit is biased and, by design, inaccurate
I get called his supporter because I dare to push back on inaccurate posts and really for nothing to do with me saying anything in support of Levy.

you see how fucking weird that is?

 

[Ed Vanderlay]

LOL I do not support him - but lets get this straight.

You are admittedly biased
You admittedly post biased stuff
I push back on the stuff that you admit is biased and, by design, inaccurate
I get called his supporter because I dare to push back on inaccurate posts and really for nothing to do with me saying anything in support of Levy.

you see how fucking weird that is?

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Woah, I said I was biased I didn’t say i was inaccurate. Admittedly you said by design but that is horseshit, sometimes people are biased for a good reason . I happen to be one of them imho