• The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Management ENIC

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

ENIC In or ENIC Out


  • Total voters
    209
Got to give you some credit for being a cheeky cunt when you are quite obviously a bit slow. 👍

So, you do your boycott by not turning up? How does anyone know you’ve not turned up because you are boycotting and not just got lost because you let go of your carers hand?

Even if people do know why you are doing it, how would you motivate others to join the crusade?

Or is your plan actually just not turning up and hoping other people don’t either?
Its irony calling someone slow, when even
though they from "Darkest Africa" (as someone put it) and know what Boycott means. It's worked for us before but seems to be a concept that many "Fast" Europeans can't grasp.

That said, seems Frank has got Levy putting his hands in his pockets. He's brought in his own staff and it seems we focused on players Levy would never have sanctioned previously. Hope our transfer window grows from strength to strength.

Maybe we'll be able to agree on more in the future.
 
As it is, yours mate, and good luck to you.

But i ask you again - if for any reason we are up challenging this season - will you be watching and supporting the club with Levy at the helm or not?

How strong are your convictions about this?

Belief is one thing - it is very, very very very rare that any kind of 'movement' brings about any significant change and even the ones that do, tend to get absorbed by the very thing they are trying to change as by design.

Because again, youre talking about changing Levy as if someone else is going to come in who actually cares about you as a football fan.

That will never, ever happen.

They are about you as a paying customer.

Thats the business.
The power of the Customer (Fan) should never be underestimated. Without the Customer, there cannot be a sale. No business can exist without sales.
 
I mean its in response to someone talking very specifically about his opinions being worthless..... not him as a person....
He's not interested if other posters think his opinions are worthless then, but what you have now written is in conflict with how you responded .

So you are just posting because you like the sound of your own voice and opinions?

Thats pretty weird

Being uninterested in how other posters view his opinions isn't the same thing as only being interested in one's own opinions.

Maybe he's interested in other poster's views on other things but just not when it's about his opinions.
 
Last edited:
Its irony calling someone slow, when even
though they from "Darkest Africa" (as someone put it) and know what Boycott means. It's worked for us before but seems to be a concept that many "Fast" Europeans can't grasp.

That said, seems Frank has got Levy putting his hands in his pockets. He's brought in his own staff and it seems we focused on players Levy would never have sanctioned previously. Hope our transfer window grows from strength to strength.

Maybe we'll be able to agree on more in the future.

What's difference has this Summer's signings made to previous transfer windows?
 
breaking-news-news.gif


*Big, wealthy football club sign a football player from a smaller football club during summer transfer window*

*Section of the fanbase demand supporters get on their knees and line up to suck the off the chairman*


Honestly, man. Just read the last few pages😆

Listen to yourselves


And people wonder why we think Levy holds a cult like status for some of you guys?
 
He's not interested if other posters think his opinions are worthless then, but what you have now written is in conflict with how you responded .



Being uninterested in how other posters view his opinions isn't the same thing as only being interested in one's own opinions.

Maybe he's interested in other poster's views on other things but just not when it's about his opinions.

Its all very confusing.

Im just pretty sure that there are about 5-10 posters on here who say the same thing pretty much every single time they post and so yeah, its clear they don't care about anything other than their own opinions and have no desire to engage in a thoughtful debate or discussion about anything outside of what they have decided is reality.

as to our second point, i agree -
 
Its irony calling someone slow, when even
though they from "Darkest Africa" (as someone put it) and know what Boycott means. It's worked for us before but seems to be a concept that many "Fast" Europeans can't grasp.

That said, seems Frank has got Levy putting his hands in his pockets. He's brought in his own staff and it seems we focused on players Levy would never have sanctioned previously. Hope our transfer window grows from strength to strength.

Maybe we'll be able to agree on more in the future.
I get that a boycott could work. But I also understand it won’t just happen by accident. As a ticket buying fan, if you don’t turn up, so what? If you can motivate thousand of others not to, that’s a movement that will be noticed. If you believe in this enough, start that movement. Otherwise, you’ve just not went to a match.
 
Its all very confusing.

Im just pretty sure that there are about 5-10 posters on here who say the same thing pretty much every single time they post and so yeah, its clear they don't care about anything other than their own opinions and have no desire to engage in a thoughtful debate or discussion about anything outside of what they have decided is reality.

as to our second point, i agree -
Well I use the forum because I find it fun. If other posters want to criticise my opinions I don't care either. I don't mind a bit of thoughtful debate, it's a useful way of forming an opinion because parts of an opinion that have been successfully debated against can be altered making the opinion more formidable.

I suppose since this is the Levy/ENIC thread the 10-15 posters that you refer to are posters who want them out. Why won't you permit them (in what you have decided is reality) to post their views without wanting to engage in thoughtful debate? It's a fan's forum not a philosophical debating chamber. They're not actually doing anything wrong in sticking to their opinions, repeatedly posting similar comments, because they feel disgruntled with the current owners of the club.

It seems to me (in what I've decided is reality) that 5-10 posters on here including yourself, are here to debate and try to win arguments. You've seen the poll numbers at the top of the thread, and you want to have it out with the posters in that majority. The thing is, even if you win an argument, it doesn't necessarily mean that you were right, it could just mean that you were better at arguing. There is merit to posters to simply post what they want about Levy within the forum rules, as often as they like, without needing to engage in meaningful debate. They may well care about things other than their own opinions, perhaps they don't enjoy debate. Maybe they think the debates just go around and around with the two sides having to agree to disagree, or it just ends up being a slanging match.

There's no need to feel that you need to call out every opinion or statement that you think is wrong, or to think that posters have a requirement to debate your challenge over something they posted.
 
Last edited:
Sure have, matey.

01 March 2013 to be precise. One of the longest standing and most respected posters in TFC history

One of the old guard, as they say. 💪
You are most certainly not one of the "most respected posters in TFC history" 😂- the majority on here, even including many who would on balance rather we had new owners, recognise that you hate ENIC & Levy more than you love Spurs, and hence recognise that your 'support' has been diluted by that. Take a look in the mirror JT and be honest with yourself - admit that your obsession with ENIC / Levy has become so great that you've lost track of your interest in Spurs, and if you are honest, you actually love it when we fail, you want us to fail, as that means Levy & ENIC fail.

Bottom line is, you would rather Spurs, and therefore ENIC & Levy, fail, rather than succeed (as can easily be evidenced by many of your posts). And that's just sad - if I ever got to that stage - wanting my club to fail just so the owners fail - I think I'd just quit football support altogether. It's just not worth that degree of obsessive negativity and hatred, it's not healthy and it's not helpful to anyone, least of all the club or its fans. And it stinks this place out big time - everyone on here already knows your opinions, I don't know why you keep repeating them again and again with nothing new added, what are you trying to achieve? And I don't mean that about all ENIC-out people at all - many develop their own views, develop the views of those they disagree with, and engage in real conversation - but not you - this forum would be a far more 'productive' place without you. "Respected" my fucking arse. 😂
 
Last edited:
Well I use the forum because I find it fun. If other posters want to criticise my opinions I don't care either. I don't mind a bit of thoughtful debate, it's a useful way of forming an opinion because parts of an opinion that have been successfully debated against can be altered making the opinion more formidable.

I suppose since this is the Levy/ENIC thread the 10-15 posters that you refer to are posters who want them out. Why won't you permit them (in what you have decided is reality) to post their views without wanting to engage in thoughtful debate? It's a fan's forum not a philosophical debating chamber. They're not actually doing anything wrong in sticking to their opinions, repeatedly posting similar comments, because they feel disgruntled with the current owners of the club.

It seems to me (in what I've decided is reality) that 5-10 posters on here including yourself, are here to debate and try to win arguments. You've seen the poll numbers at the top of the thread, and you want to have it out with the posters in that majority. The thing is, even if you win an argument, it doesn't necessarily mean that you were right, it could just mean that you were better at arguing. There is merit to posters to simply post what they want about Levy within the forum rules, as often as they like, without needing to engage in meaningful debate. They may well care about things other than their own opinions, perhaps they don't enjoy debate. Maybe they think the debates just go around and around with the two sided having to agree to disagree, or it just ends up being a slanging match.

There's no need to feel that you need to call out every opinion or statement that you think is wrong, or to think that posters have a requirement to debate your challenge over something they posted.
I've liked your post because I appreciate your general sentiment, and much of the detail , but there is one bit I disagree with - when posters just post the same things again and again with no nuance, no development, no real relevance to what is being discussed, then it does get tiresome, and basically just clogs up the forum with rubbish that people have already read from them 1000 times. I also like thoughful debate, I also don't mind having my opinions disagreed with or criticised, and I've definitely completely changed my opinions before based on arguments others have provided (which of course is a healthy way to develop opinions, albeit something that 90% of people seem unable to do), but when someone just wants to say the same thing on every thread time and time again, don't you think that's a bad thing for the forum as a whole? Who is benefitting from it?
 
Last edited:
but when someone just wants to say the same thing on every thread time and time again, don't you think that's a bad thing for the forum as a whole? Who is benefitting from it?
I don't mind anyone posting the same or similar thing over and over, I don't see any harm in it. I suppose you'd need to ask Admin if he thinks it's damaging the forum as a whole.

As for who benefits? I imagine posters who share those views enjoy reading those posts. Though I don't think a post has to necessarily have a benefit to someone. If the team had a crap game, and posters post ''that was crap'' and the players get low ratings on the ratings thread, who does that benefit? Is THFC going to read this forum's player rating thread and make alterations due to it?

There are other posters on the forum that seem to like arguing, lots of threads on different topics on the forum are filled with prolonged arguments, quite often slanging matches, Maybe that behaviour is damaging to the forum as a whole, as it's quite often disruptive and ends with posts being moved and posters sin binned.
 
Do you think the club should be run at a loss to be "better run"?
If necessary, yes.

I do think it's in Levy's nature to constantly binge on capital expenditure (golf courses, hotels, go carts, etc) in a way that doesn't present nearly the favorable and certain ROI that the stadium did.

The stadium was a bigger challenge than it got credit for (look at United and Chelsea) and was a great success, and will be Levy's positive legacy at the club for decades beyond his lifetime. (If you need that "nuance" to pay attention, there it is. Levy delivered us a home we can be proud of for the whole 21st century and has my thanks and admiration for it.) That halo does not extend to an ever-growing real estate and fixed asset portfolio though, so I do think in that sense there is "extra money" around.

But regardless, I reject the characterization that investing some of the multibillion pound inflation in the club's value (that is flowing directly into ENIC's pocket in mark-to-market terms) back into the team to maintain parity with the business practices of EVERY OTHER CLUB is making an unreasonable or infeasible demand on the ownership.

We shouldn't be a distant last place on that chart. Period. "Self sustaining" is a propagandistic euphemism for a singular and unique hoarding of asset inflation by our owners relative to every one of our competitors. We are being made to fight with one arm tied behind our backs in order to further enrich Levy and Lewis' heirs.

And I'm sorry this triggers you so, but it's just reality, I have never seen a word of disagreement with the preceding paragraph from anyone who hasn't sunk DECADES of internet blather (or perhaps talk show blather in someone like Simon Jordan's case) into defending Daniel Levy against his critics. The people for whom pro-Levy posting has settled into the core of their identity are the only defenders out there. The hard, objective data is just too clear and too damning.
 
I don't mind anyone posting the same or similar thing over and over, I don't see any harm in it. I suppose you'd need to ask Admin if he thinks it's damaging the forum as a whole.

As for who benefits? I imagine posters who share those views enjoy reading those posts. Though I don't think a post has to necessarily have a benefit to someone, If the team had a crap game, and posters post ''that was crap'' and the players get low ratings on the ratings thread, who does that benefit? Is THFC going to read this forum's player rating thread and make alterations due to it?

There are other posters on the forum that seem to like arguing, lots of threads on different topics on the forum are filled with prolonged arguments, quite often slanging matches, Maybe that behaviour is damaging to the forum as a whole, as it's quite often disruptive and ends with posts being moved and posters sin binned.
Again, I've 'liked' that post because I agree with your sentiment and most of what you say.

But I do think there is a big difference between the scenario you are suggesting there, and the JT style of posting. When we lose a game and play badly, it's understandable that people 'let off steam' - the difference is, those same people might well be positive when we win and play well, and they might add interesting opinions or useful content on other topics at other times. That's not the case with JT - it's 'ENIC and Levy are evil' on every thread, every day, never anything else.

I agree to a great extent with your point about arguing, with many people on this forum (irrespective of their like or dislike of Levy) seemingly unable to accept any argument that contradicts or challenges their own, and yes that is disruptive, but at least in most cases they do seem to start out with some kind of attempt to discuss (albeit often only to defend their view, with no intention of learning, developing or adapting - indeed some of the most prolific posters on here, whilst posting some good stuff from time to time, are utterly incapable of saying 'hmmm ok I see your point' - but that's symptomatic of most people generally isn't it?) I'm not saying that's ok or a good thing, but at least it does involve some kind of genuine back & forth conversation, with new points being raised - JT's posts don't (I appreciate that he doesn't have the understanding of the financial detail needed for that, but that's no excuse), they have no substance and no willingness to debate, they are the RL equivalent of a madman running around in the street with his fingers in his ears shouting the same few phrases into people's faces for hours on end, day after day.

Tbh I am in some ways surprised that Admin tolerates it, but to be fair, I think Admin expects this place to be largely self-policing, and hence lets go as much as he possibly can (and JT is very careful to never say anything that could directly result in a ban - he normally lights the touchpaper for his followers to be aggressive with, and they sometimes get banned as a result, but he is more careful than that himself), plus I'm sure Admin has enough to do already. The repetition of the same thign again and again on multiple threads could be considered a banning offence by some, but I totally agree that's arguable...
 
Last edited:
Back
Top