Eric Dier

[Henry Hotspur]

As a former defender (with coaching badges) I can tell you that defending is the easiest discipline to coach (as opposed to attacking play). Everyone has to know their role and what to do collectively and individually as the opposition play opens up. Dier is now clearly being coached well (along with the rest of the defence - note the underlapping Sanchez and Davies last night).

Guido’s VVD comparison is a good one. I was shocked when Liverpool paid such a huge price for him (based on his Southampton performances) and he has proved me wrong. However, as noted, he is suddenly playing in a defence which isn’t under half as much pressure and his physical attributes complement this system.

For me, what separates good/average defenders from great ones are: without the ball great defenders read the game well and have the physicality to dominate (whether through strength and/or speed) their opponents. With the ball great defenders possess a range of short/long passing which begin devastating attacks rather then either playing long or giving it easy.

Dier isn’t anywhere near this yet. However, his ability to have become a key figure in the early days of Conte is a great credit to him. Hopefully he continues his form and becomes something of a (cliche alert) lynchpin….

 

[ArcspacE]

You lost me at the first example - we kept a clean sheet at Wolves because, after Dier them the ball, whilst he was in their half, Traore did what Traore does - he missed (Lloris saved)
But for that save, we'd all have been absolutely livid at how Dier cost us that game. Not only that, but we might have been looking at all the other times in that game that he was out of position and gave the ball away.
Look at the brief highlights again and watch how many times he could have cut basic balls out but didn't, which handed them chances that they simply failed to tuck away,

Dier is a terrible defender but you’re wasting your time with him, fella - his entire football knowledgeable is shaped around what the Athletic publishes

 

[CollyQC]

That is true...

But there is a reason why we dont see scorelines of 25-30

Ever watched women's football?
:contethumb:

 

[Billy Bob mate]

I can't be arsed looking into it but surely this idea that great defenders have no mistakes in them is bollocks.

I reckon you could do a YouTube complication of cock ups for all defenders.

I may be wrong of course but I rarely am so...

 

[RealCoolYid]

Pretty solid once he remembered to pass to his own team mates. I think the comparisons to great CBs have maybe gone to his head: keep his job simple and he’ll do well.

The pass that cost us the equaliser was fucking abject.

It was at a time where we desperately needed to gain some composure

And our ‘leader’ does that … it was no where near anyone

He’s playing well but doesn’t matter how well you play the rest of the 90 if you’re solely going to chalk one up for the opposition

 

[Shadydan]

The pass that cost us the equaliser was fucking abject.

It was at a time where we desperately needed to gain some composure

And our ‘leader’ does that … it was no where near anyone

He’s playing well but doesn’t matter how well you play the rest of the 90 if you’re solely going to chalk one up for the opposition

Our leader also stood up for the rest of the match, regained composure and didn't go into his shell. I'd rather that then players who constantly hide after an error which is the easy thing to do, the good thing is that the manager and coaching staff recognise this and will put more energy into the fact that he's getting more and more consistent, the mistakes can and will get ironed out over time, relax.

Some of your are just so damn miserable, I think you'd honestly rather have your desperate opinion vindicated rather than be proved wrong or change your mind.

 

[iz futbal]

waffle....
Some of your are just so damn miserable, I think you'd honestly rather have your desperate opinion vindicated rather than be proved wrong or change your mind.

Thats exactly how you are behaving.

You are desperately pretending to yourself that he didnt fuck up multiple times. Theres obvious proof of those. He was responsible for giving up 1 goal and if not for Lloris, then 2 goals. He had a bad game whichever way you look at it.

 

[The Outsider]

The pass that cost us the equaliser was fucking abject.

It was at a time where we desperately needed to gain some composure

And our ‘leader’ does that … it was no where near anyone

He’s playing well but doesn’t matter how well you play the rest of the 90 if you’re solely going to chalk one up for the opposition

Good job Dier knew that Manuel Lanzini's shot would be so bad it would end up as a pass to Bowen ... oh wait you mean he didn't?

Sure it was a shit pass, just like the other 100+ passes that went astray last night ... but don't go overboard on Dier, all players even great ones make mistakes, the trick is to reduce them to as few as possible ... Dier despite the hate makes very few mistakes, the problem is everyone he makes is highlighted and analysed to death ... that's what happens when you play for Spurs. Just ask Kane.

 

[The Outsider]

Thats exactly how you are behaving.

You are desperately pretending to yourself that he didnt fuck up multiple times. Theres obvious proof of those. He was responsible for giving up 1 goal and if not for Lloris, then 2 goals. He had a bad game whichever way you look at it.

Bollocks .... as usual ... team game team responsibility clearly you've never been a team player.

 

[iz futbal]

Bollocks .... as usual ... team game team responsibility clearly you've never been a team player.

Go back to your village, village idiot.

 

[The Outsider]

Go back to your village, village idiot.

Stop talking out your arse then .... you very obviously haven't a clue.

Dier attempted 44 passes and completed 40 of them - >90% better than nearly all his teammates - but a trolling fool like you claims that's shit passung. Are you really that stupid?

 

[Shadydan]

Thats exactly how you are behaving.

You are desperately pretending to yourself that he didnt fuck up multiple times. Theres obvious proof of those. He was responsible for giving up 1 goal and if not for Lloris, then 2 goals. He had a bad game whichever way you look at it.

? Really seeing as you seem to know so much what is my opinion of him then? Because my opinion has changed over time due to what I've seen of him - have a look at my first post in the thread for example where I heavily criticised him yet am willing to accept that he's improved to the point where I can see the merit of him being picked, the problem is I don't think anyone can say the same about you.

You mean in the 2nd half when Sanchez went to press and left a gap for Bowen to vacate meaning Dier had to cover, if that's the other multiple 'fuck ups' then I'm afraid you don't understand football, don't mean to offend.

I think it would help if you were actually honest with yourself when it comes to judging players as opposed to hanging onto this myopic one-sided agenda you seem to have against certain players then it might allow you to have an open objective argument from time to time, might help you actually.

 

[Matt1882]

Two mistakes yesterday where he's been on one. Elite centerbacks I've watched down the years at their peak make no big errors. You can always over hit a pass but the ball over him and the ball out where not elite level stuff.

Ferdinand ,King , Stam, VVD. They just stopped doing that stuff having done it initially. Dier isn't a massive issue we do need another elite CB though preferably left footed.

Simple like for like comparison

Dier - 218 appearances 6 errors leading to goals. (no records for errors that led to chances)
Toby - 200 appearances 1 error leading to a goal.

Consider that all of Toby's games were at CB, at least half of Diers were in midfield.

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

Ever watched women's football?
:contethumb:

No never

Simple like for like comparison

Dier - 218 appearances 6 errors leading to goals. (no records for errors that led to chances)
Toby - 200 appearances 1 error leading to a goal.

Consider that all of Toby's games were at CB, at least half of Diers were in midfield.

Exactly. I really like Eric Dier I'm desperate for him to become everything that Conte says. But to pretend he dose not on occasion make very basic errors that top centerbacks cut out is silly.

I said before I was at a final we lost because King let the ball bounce in our box. He just got better and better after, and not in a three in a back four with some woeful partners. We lost games got thumped on occasions but errors from him like Alderweireld were like hens teeth. We have had some great CB I have seen. Alderweireld Vertonghen King Gough Roberts. We're by far the best of it. Right now Eric is in the bracket with Gallas, Naybet, Dawson. Above the Gardners and joker types.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

You lost me at the first example - we kept a clean sheet at Wolves because, after Dier gave them the ball, whilst he was in their half, Traore did what Traore does - he missed (Lloris saved)
But for that save, we'd all have been absolutely livid at how Dier cost us that game. Not only that, but we might have been looking at all the other times in that game that he was out of position and gave the ball away.
Look at the brief highlights again and watch how many times he could have cut basic balls out but didn't, which handed them chances that they simply failed to tuck away,

YOU ARE LIVID AT HIM!!!! You are still bringing it up as if it's important......IT'S NOT!! We won, they didn't score, Traore is shit, Hugo is a world-class 'keeper and did what is expected of him to do.

They created absolutely fuck all, we defended really, really well in this game. It was the ONLY thing we did well in the game, it was a great defensive performance, in a game where we were outplayed.

The ONLY people/person bringing it up as a relevant thing are those/you that are utterly obsessed with trying to make a case of a poor player, yet completely ignoring a multitude (almost every game) of many more errors committed by Romero and simultaneously lording him as a godlike CB!!!

This is called cognitive bias.

He will improve/has been improving because as a team we are now being coached well, have a plan, have a shape, creating more attacks whilst concerning fewer chances against. This is a team collective, just as was seen under Poch, just as Liverpool saw under Klopp. The better we become under Conte (probably will not see full potential until he's had a pre-season (but we are already night and day better than we've been at any point for the past 3-4yrs), the better we are collectively the better the players are individually.

You best get used to this as Dier is set to be a mainstay under Conte (injury aside), that much is clear.

 

[Matt1882]

No never

Exactly. I really like Eric Dier I'm desperate for him to become everything that Conte says. But to pretend he dose not on occasion make very basic errors that top centerbacks cut out is silly.

I said before I was at a final we lost because King let the ball bounce in our box. He just got better and better after, and not in a three in a back four with some woeful partners. We lost games got thumped on occasions but errors from him like Alderweireld were like hens teeth. We have had some great CB I have seen. Alderweireld Vertonghen King Gough Roberts. We're by far the best of it. Right now Eric is in the bracket with Gallas, Naybet, Dawson. Above the Gardners and joker types.

There's a reason that for 2 years in a row we had the best defence in the league. In fact, Toby pretty much always played in the best defence in the league wherever he played. He and Jan could read the play and be in the right place and cut simple things out before they even happened. AND they could both pass reliably. Dier firefights. Sometimes. Sometimes the game completely passes him by.

Not all of it is Diers fault here. Toby and Jan had Dembele/Wanyama and even a decent at the time Dier himself shielding them.
I personally thought a lot of the reason there was a lot of one way traffic last night was because a) Skipp and PEH couldn't pass the ball successfully to the front 3 to save their lives, so it kept coming back at us and b) they got overwhelmed by the numbers WH had in the middle

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Simple like for like comparison

Dier - 218 appearances 6 errors leading to goals. (no records for errors that led to chances)
Toby - 200 appearances 1 error leading to a goal.

Consider that all of Toby's games were at CB, at least half of Diers were in midfield.

Where the fuck have you dug these stats from? I can think of several horrendous errors from Toby leading to goals one of them was in a fucking cup final for fucksake! Several in a number of games in CL. Another against a minnow in an FA Cup quali round.

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

There's a reason that for 2 years in a row we had the best defence in the league. In fact, Toby pretty much always played in the best defence in the league wherever he played. He and Jan could read the play and be in the right place and cut simple things out before they even happened. AND they could both pass reliably. Dier firefights. Sometimes. Sometimes the game completely passes him by.

Not all of it is Diers fault here. Toby and Jan had Dembele/Wanyama and even a decent at the time Dier himself shielding them.
I personally thought a lot of the reason there was a lot of one way traffic last night was because a) Skipp and PEH couldn't pass the ball successfully to the front 3 to save their lives, so it kept coming back at us and b) they got overwhelmed by the numbers WH had in the middle

Yep Eric is a fireman and the way he defends turns the back four into trench warfare. It suits him and he often looks at his most commanding in these scenarios but if he could read a game we wouldn't be pinned in.

I'm glad you mention this regarding the midfield inability to pass. Is there anyone left who can't see that Hoijberge and Skipp are playing for the same place‽ Winks actually improved this aspect when introduced but by then we were sitting back playing Ropeadope. We need a creative passer in midfield with legs. Then it's Skipp or Hoijberge

 

[Matt1882]

Yep Eric is a fireman and the way he defends turns the back four into trench warfare. It suits him and he often looks at his most commanding in these scenarios but if he could read a game we wouldn't be pinned in.

I'm glad you mention this regarding the midfield inability to pass. Is there anyone left who can't see that Hoijberge and Skipp are playing for the same place‽ Winks actually improved this aspect when introduced but by then we were sitting back playing Ropeadope. We need a creative passer in midfield with legs. Then it's Skipp or Hoijberge

Interesting our attack was at its most devastating against Liverpool when neither of them played.

 

[iz futbal]

You mean in the 2nd half when Sanchez went to press and left a gap for Bowen to vacate meaning Dier had to cover, if that's the other multiple 'fuck ups' then I'm afraid you don't understand football, don't mean to offend.

That gap does not make the slightest bit of difference when the ball is in their half and Dier has to take care of only 1 player. It wasnt some 2 yard pass played through this 'gap'. It was lumped up in the air. He had enough time to get in the right place to stop their player but didnt. Our defenders still outnumbered their attackers, but Dier crawled so slowly backwards that he let Bowen through. Lloris thankfully saved the day but he is an extraordinary goalkeeper.