Financial Results - Year Ended 30 June 2023

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Formation error: Your lineup must contain exactly 11 players. Please check your formation. A 'Player' is considered to be 1 name without spaces.

Agree but still think the primary overall objective is commercial growth not sustained success. They are interlinked so it’s difficult but if you offered Levy the chance to sign Rice for 100M, even with hindsight I don’t think he goes for it. I do agree with value of players dropping but still think we will buy second tier and look for well priced signings as opposed to the odd overpriced superstar that moves the dial
agreed When i say "the primary purpose" i mean in a generic sense about football clubs, and that that should be the Boards primary objective - as it is for fans.
 
Formation error: Your lineup must contain exactly 11 players. Please check your formation. A 'Player' is considered to be 1 name without spaces.


agreed When i say "the primary purpose" i mean in a generic sense about football clubs, and that that should be the Boards primary objective - as it is for fans.
It’s absolutely not ours
 
It’s not the primary purpose - after 25 years that’s fucking obvious. It should be, it’s not - I’m not OK with it, but I have accepted it ain’t gonna change

The good work they’ve done (as a primary objective) to grow revenue means on field success is more likely (but still secondary)
We’ve had the lowest wages to revenue ratio in the EPL consistently. Pre-new stadium. Post-new stadium. It’s clear we are first and foremost a business.

Unless you’re a sovereign nation or a Bezos-type billionaire, football clubs , at the highest levels, are simply too expensive to run for the hobbyist (Elton John at Watford). Mike Piazza, a HoF baseball player of considerable means, found this out and bankrupted an Italian third(?) tier team.
On the field success is only important in that it helps drive revenue but Tottenham can turn a profit without it.

Does anyone really think that Brentford, Wolves or Crystal Palace owners are seeking glory? If on-field success (by which I mean trophies) were the real measure of a club’s reason to exist then 14 EPL teams should fold tomorrow as they have no reason to exist. And the EPL is more competitive than most leagues.

I would argue that the only owners that have got the balance right over the last decade or so are Liverpool with good recruitment and a little help from Barca at the right time.
 
They also added to their wage bill:
Rice = £240k per week
Havartz = £265 per week!!!
Timber = £90k pw

In addition, they've increased the wages with new contracts for:
Saka = +£200k pw
Gabriel = £100k pw
Martinelli = £180k pw
Odegard = £240k pw
Saliba = £190k pw
Tomyiasso = £66k pw
White = £120k pw

and paying the salary of
Raya = £85k pw

Approximate up-to-date PLAYER values are in the region of:
Woolwich Annual PLAYER Salaries = £177,626
Tottenham Annual PLAYER Salaries = £153,266
£24.4m less
You have no idea what their salaries are. Just guessing, what’s the point.
 
We’ve had the lowest wages to revenue ratio in the EPL consistently. Pre-new stadium. Post-new stadium. It’s clear we are first and foremost a business.

Unless you’re a sovereign nation or a Bezos-type billionaire, football clubs , at the highest levels, are simply too expensive to run for the hobbyist (Elton John at Watford). Mike Piazza, a HoF baseball player of considerable means, found this out and bankrupted an Italian third(?) tier team.
On the field success is only important in that it helps drive revenue but Tottenham can turn a profit without it.

Does anyone really think that Brentford, Wolves or Crystal Palace owners are seeking glory? If on-field success (by which I mean trophies) were the real measure of a club’s reason to exist then 14 EPL teams should fold tomorrow as they have no reason to exist. And the EPL is more competitive than most leagues.

I would argue that the only owners that have got the balance right over the last decade or so are Liverpool with good recruitment and a little help from Barca at the right time.
They sold a percentage to Red Bird did they not.
 
Ange's comments from todays press comments. Whilst not specifically about Levy's bonus the bit about we're not Banks rings true and why a large bonus last year when we finished 8th and no bonus the previous year when we finished 4th.


Is there not a financial pressure to qualify for the Champions League given the revenue it generates?

Yeah but it doesn’t guarantee everything. I keep saying it, I don’t know why people don’t understand. So if I ask you, Newcastle made the Champions League last year, did it help them this year?

Financially it did, yes.

But we’re not banks, we’re football clubs. We’re not financial institutions. I don’t get measured by the balance sheet at the end of the year. You can see how difficult it is to juggle Champions League if you aren’t building a squad and to be fair to Eddie, he’s had horrendous injuries this year. Makes it hard. What I’m saying is, Champions League, great. Money, great. Does that mean we’re going to finish third next year? No. in fact it is probably going to be more challenging.

So my role in that is not to worry about the financial pressure of making Champions League, it is to create a squad that hopefully can compete in the Champions League and keep improving in the Premier League and have success in the cup competitions. That’s where I differentiate. Of course, everyone if you’re not going to win the league, get into the Champions League because of the financial rewards but that’s not the measure. How much money you make is not why you get into the Champions League, it is what you do with that money. Do you build on it? Do you build a squad or do you say because we’re in the Champions League next year, we’ll be great.
 
Ange's comments from todays press comments. Whilst not specifically about Levy's bonus the bit about we're not Banks rings true and why a large bonus last year when we finished 8th and no bonus the previous year when we finished 4th.


Is there not a financial pressure to qualify for the Champions League given the revenue it generates?

Yeah but it doesn’t guarantee everything. I keep saying it, I don’t know why people don’t understand. So if I ask you, Newcastle made the Champions League last year, did it help them this year?

Financially it did, yes.

But we’re not banks, we’re football clubs. We’re not financial institutions. I don’t get measured by the balance sheet at the end of the year. You can see how difficult it is to juggle Champions League if you aren’t building a squad and to be fair to Eddie, he’s had horrendous injuries this year. Makes it hard. What I’m saying is, Champions League, great. Money, great. Does that mean we’re going to finish third next year? No. in fact it is probably going to be more challenging.

So my role in that is not to worry about the financial pressure of making Champions League, it is to create a squad that hopefully can compete in the Champions League and keep improving in the Premier League and have success in the cup competitions. That’s where I differentiate. Of course, everyone if you’re not going to win the league, get into the Champions League because of the financial rewards but that’s not the measure. How much money you make is not why you get into the Champions League, it is what you do with that money. Do you build on it? Do you build a squad or do you say because we’re in the Champions League next year, we’ll be great.

Ange is not concerned with money as his job is a football manager.

Levy's role is to ensure enough money is available to put together a squad over a period of time (and Ange has said several times that might take 3 windows). So given just being in CL makes enough money to buy at least one player outright, its totally correct for Levy to prefer the manager to get into CL at any possibility to maximise money available to buy players.

So no surprise Ange is not to worry about financial pressures - that's not his role. But it is Levy's role
 
I'd say that the immediate primary objective was to grow the club commercially, but the overall primary objective is to have sustained success arising from that growth.

The thing that doesn't sit well with many of the fanbase is the timescale involved. I've posted before that I think that Levy has a more Japanese type of approach, which is longer term planning. I don't think he thought it would take as long as it has, but then the Chelsea and City takeovers threw a spanner in the works there. Had they not happened, we'd likely have had that onfield success a lot earlier. For example, we lost our on a title to Conte's Chelsea due to their financial advantage, allowing them to pay over the odds for World Class players, with a World Class manager. Their final run in was ridiculous.

Let's not forget that it, and for many other seasons, was as a result of cheating.

He now has a perfect storm here, where the cheats are having to rein in, and it's already having an impact on Chelsea. They've taken a massive gamble that, at this point in time, looks to have blown up in their faces massively.
The other big teams are also being impacted by P&S, which should mean that player prices come down, especially as Europe is also skint.

This should really put us front and centre for many players, as those players rated at £70-100M a season or 2 ago, should fall into the £50-70M bracket, which we've shown we are prepared to go to for the right player.

I honestly think that we'll see a significant drop in transfer fees starting this Summer, and if we do, then I fully expect the club to take advantage of that.

For me, this is the place that Levy has plotted and planned to be in. Financially, we can now compete with just about anyone in the World, and we're not as hamstrung by P&S as most of them are. As I said earlier, it's a perfect storm.

It's extremely hard to break into that elite level, and we were always going to fall short as long as the cheats kept on cheating, and the financial monsters were managed well. Right now they're not, so we'll never see a better opportunity to strike than now.

I would suggest the financial doping of Chelsea and Mancity (and arguably authorities failure to deal properly with Leicester - a £4m fine for huge ffp breaches enabling them to build a much better squad than they could have afforded) has probably put Spurs project back a decade from Levy's expectations when enic took control of Spurs - although we did come fairly close to a PL title in 2016/17 but finished 2nd.

Not helped by Haringey's lack of support/co-operation to build a new stadium until their position became untenable following Tottenham riots.

But we are where we are, nearing the end of a fairly extensive squad rebuild and we should have both improved our first team and added much needed depth before next season - not perfect but better equipped to ride out a few injuries.
 
We’ve had the lowest wages to revenue ratio in the EPL consistently. Pre-new stadium. Post-new stadium. It’s clear we are first and foremost a business.

Unless you’re a sovereign nation or a Bezos-type billionaire, football clubs , at the highest levels, are simply too expensive to run for the hobbyist (Elton John at Watford). Mike Piazza, a HoF baseball player of considerable means, found this out and bankrupted an Italian third(?) tier team.
On the field success is only important in that it helps drive revenue but Tottenham can turn a profit without it.

Does anyone really think that Brentford, Wolves or Crystal Palace owners are seeking glory? If on-field success (by which I mean trophies) were the real measure of a club’s reason to exist then 14 EPL teams should fold tomorrow as they have no reason to exist. And the EPL is more competitive than most leagues.

I would argue that the only owners that have got the balance right over the last decade or so are Liverpool with good recruitment and a little help from Barca at the right time.
I’m not demanding trophies or nation state spending. I just want us to seize opportunities when appropriate and go big. This is the summer to capitalise and create a foundation for the next five plus years. 300-500M on five or so players and maximise the buyers market, FFP headroom and recent good recruitment
 
I’m not demanding trophies or nation state spending. I just want us to seize opportunities when appropriate and go big. This is the summer to capitalise and create a foundation for the next five plus years. 300-500M on five or so players and maximise the buyers market, FFP headroom and recent good recruitment
Zomb, £300-500M in one season would put us right in the shit with P&S, that's hugely unrealistic. It's also nation state spending, or fuckwit Billionaire spending.

£150-250M should be achievable for us, IMO. If player valuations come down in the way I believe they will, that sort of money would net us at least 3 top quality players, with enough left over to bring in some more future/present talent with scope to improve.

I'm 100% with you that we need to seize this opportunity though. As I posted earlier, I think we have a perfect storm here that could propel us a lot closer to that elite level.
 
Ange's comments from todays press comments. Whilst not specifically about Levy's bonus the bit about we're not Banks rings true and why a large bonus last year when we finished 8th and no bonus the previous year when we finished 4th.


Is there not a financial pressure to qualify for the Champions League given the revenue it generates?

Yeah but it doesn’t guarantee everything. I keep saying it, I don’t know why people don’t understand. So if I ask you, Newcastle made the Champions League last year, did it help them this year?

Financially it did, yes.

But we’re not banks, we’re football clubs. We’re not financial institutions. I don’t get measured by the balance sheet at the end of the year. You can see how difficult it is to juggle Champions League if you aren’t building a squad and to be fair to Eddie, he’s had horrendous injuries this year. Makes it hard. What I’m saying is, Champions League, great. Money, great. Does that mean we’re going to finish third next year? No. in fact it is probably going to be more challenging.

So my role in that is not to worry about the financial pressure of making Champions League, it is to create a squad that hopefully can compete in the Champions League and keep improving in the Premier League and have success in the cup competitions. That’s where I differentiate. Of course, everyone if you’re not going to win the league, get into the Champions League because of the financial rewards but that’s not the measure. How much money you make is not why you get into the Champions League, it is what you do with that money. Do you build on it? Do you build a squad or do you say because we’re in the Champions League next year, we’ll be great.

Your interpretation is quite the gymnastic stretch..... No way on earth is Ange condemning Levy's bonus; nor does the question from the journo touch upon it. They're just cranking the screw on Ange a bit about expectations.
 
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Zomb, £300-500M in one season would put us right in the shit with P&S, that's hugely unrealistic. It's also nation state spending, or fuckwit Billionaire spending.

£150-250M should be achievable for us, IMO. If player valuations come down in the way I believe they will, that sort of money would net us at least 3 top quality players, with enough left over to bring in some more future/present talent with scope to improve.

I'm 100% with you that we need to seize this opportunity though. As I posted earlier, I think we have a perfect storm here that could propel us a lot closer to that elite level.

Although I don't see 150-200m as out of reach; what it the "perfect storm" you speak of?

...............The new FFP rules will kill the brief glimmer of hope of the playing field being leveled.



(I largely tuned out of this thread cos - the same as every year - the accounts thread quickly descends into a generic ENIC-moan fest from people that aren't prepared to grind the actual financial figures; and thus is better suited to the ENIC thread............... So forgive me if you already explained.......)
 
Although I don't see 150-200m as out of reach; what it the "perfect storm" you speak of?

...............The new FFP rules will kill the brief glimmer of hope of the playing field being leveled.



(I largely tuned out of this thread cos - the same as every year - the accounts thread quickly descends into a generic ENIC-moan fest from people that aren't prepared to grind the actual financial figures; and thus is better suited to the ENIC thread............... So forgive me if you already explained.......)
Just read up in the new FFP rules, I wasn't aware of them tbh. Does this mean that the threshold is no longer uniform, i.e. the clubs with the largest revenues get even more wriggle room? I note it's scaled down each year to 70%, but that's potentially a lot of offload for teams who are well exceeding that at the moment. Aren't PSG at something like 111%?

Having thought about it a bit, I still think it puts us in a strong position going forward. It puts a doubt on my belief that we'll see a drop in transfer valuations, but I still think there'll be a fair bit of belt tightening going on, dropping 20% of your outgoings over 2 years is still a big ask. If anything, it highlights just how stupid Chelsea were to put so many highly paid players on such long contracts.

The new rules seem like they're reining the overspending clubs in, rather than choking them from the off. It buys them a little time to get their house in order, but eventually they have to rein everything back to 70%.

Maybe it's just me, but it feels like they've been specifically designed to protect the big clubs from themselves and their challengers. As long as they manage themselves properly, they should still have the financial power to maintain themselves at the top, which is really where FIFA want them. The CL has to have the World's biggest clubs in it after all.
 
Just read up in the new FFP rules, I wasn't aware of them tbh. Does this mean that the threshold is no longer uniform, i.e. the clubs with the largest revenues get even more wriggle room? I note it's scaled down each year to 70%, but that's potentially a lot of offload for teams who are well exceeding that at the moment. Aren't PSG at something like 111%?

Having thought about it a bit, I still think it puts us in a strong position going forward. It puts a doubt on my belief that we'll see a drop in transfer valuations, but I still think there'll be a fair bit of belt tightening going on, dropping 20% of your outgoings over 2 years is still a big ask. If anything, it highlights just how stupid Chelsea were to put so many highly paid players on such long contracts.

The new rules seem like they're reining the overspending clubs in, rather than choking them from the off. It buys them a little time to get their house in order, but eventually they have to rein everything back to 70%.

Maybe it's just me, but it feels like they've been specifically designed to protect the big clubs from themselves and their challengers. As long as they manage themselves properly, they should still have the financial power to maintain themselves at the top, which is really where FIFA want them. The CL has to have the World's biggest clubs in it after all.
The bigger clubs will always have more money than the others. Was ever thus. Those new rules are not agreed as yet. UEFA are definitely going to a wage/transfers percentage of turnover. Down to 70% eventually. The top 8 will need to go with that whatever else happens.
 
I’m not demanding trophies or nation state spending. I just want us to seize opportunities when appropriate and go big. This is the summer to capitalise and create a foundation for the next five plus years. 300-500M on five or so players and maximise the buyers market, FFP headroom and recent good recruitment

ffp headroom is not a huge problem atm, but doubt it would accommodate £500m spent on players.

And there's not £500m cash tucked down the back of the sofa either,

We spent circa £150m on new players last summer and that's more likely this summer coming
 
You have no idea what their salaries are. Just guessing, what’s the point.
I'm not guessing, I have taken the salary data from here: EPL The data is well sourced but obviously, they do not have sight of player confidential contracts because NO ONE DOSE. But this is now where almost all journo's who speak of player salaries get their info from.
 
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