Giovani Lo Celso

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Difficult to generalise but I think on average our players tend to be slightly overrated by our own fans and also the wider media. Exceptions either way - Modric and Dembele come to mind immediately.

I'm not so sure we overrate. We do have a squad that has achieved multiple top four finishes, reached a major final and certain players we apparently overrated, players like Walker and Eriksen who many of my pals said I saw through Tottenham tinted glasses went onto play for major clubs earning major deals for themselves out of it.

A pal of mine said I was bias when I suggested Lloris was a far better goalkeeper than the likes of Kasper Schmeichel. The numbers speak for themselves. Each person is different I guess but I think as a fanbase we kinda know the decent ones from the ones who ain't gonna cut it in N17.
 
Jose's a smart guy. I like the fact he thinks fast and speaks slowly (learned some lessons, obvs.). He's not just addressing the Dele issue, he's clearing up a lot of stuff for everyone. No hysterics or examples required.

I'm glad he's warmed to GLC, I think a few of us were a bit worried he wasn't a 'Mourinho' player. It's pleasing to see Jose isn't living up to all the 'same old Mourinho' stereotypes. He's been a champion for two decades and that means adapting and evolving. This is key to my slowly-dawning acceptance/admiration.

"The blanket is getting a little bit bigger." - Fuck Yeah!

I’m relieved more than anything else. If Jose didn’t warm to Poch’s new signings, it would have made the transition much more arduous and protracted.
 

HampshireSpur

🇺🇦
I'm not so sure we overrate. We do have a squad that has achieved multiple top four finishes, reached a major final and certain players we apparently overrated, players like Walker and Eriksen who many of my pals said I saw through Tottenham tinted glasses went onto play for major clubs earning major deals for themselves out of it.

A pal of mine said I was bias when I suggested Lloris was a far better goalkeeper than the likes of Kasper Schmeichel. The numbers speak for themselves. Each person is different I guess but I think as a fanbase we kinda know the decent ones from the ones who ain't gonna cut it in N17.

Hmm, I might agree on our fanbase, but I think the reception we get from the wider media is by and large OK. I've read multiple assessments of Eriksen as 'world class' for instance - certainly is on his day, but blows hot and cold (as we know) and Real/Barca didn't come in for him, in the end.

I think the key is position more than the actual club in question, in the main. Dembele for me was world class in his position but because he didn't score or assist much tended to slip under the radar.
 
I just have to say this - rival fans and media have never been quick to hop on a Spurs players bandwagon, it's actually the opposite.

  • Plenty of rival fans genuinely believe the national team will be better WITHOUT harry kane, despite his goal record and winning a WC golden boot.
  • One big reason Dembele got a big push was that Pogba was underperforming and Mousa was propped up so people could have a dig at Pogba. Mousa was great for us from the beginning with his partnership with Sandro.
  • Harry Winks got plenty of ridicule as he made his way into the Spurs team. He was playing in all of Spurs big games, even away at Madrid, dortmund, Barca... against huge clubs and he gets criticism more than praise, as if he's not good enough to play for England even.
  • I see people talk shit about Dele all the time too, completely dismissing his goal contributions, because he doesn't retain the ball as well as other players.
  • Plenty of Utd fans scoffed at the idea of signing Toby a summer or two ago, despite him always being a part of whatever league he's in best defences (Southampton, Atletico, most of his years with us). This is a club that still employs Phil Jones and Victor Lindelof to play regularly for them.

Don't look outside too much, of course Spurs fans may overrate our own, but we have far more accurate representations than those who, for YEARS, most likely will have predicted we won't be a top four side.
You can add the over exaggeration, of any player from the north or Midlands. Maddison Grealish Longstaff, theres a weird complex that London dominates dispite the spending power of Liverpool, United and City. I am looking forward to the northeast and the wider world finding out that the sainted TAA has not worked out the game involves defending and is not the finished article. Mmbappe running at him will be a total revelation.
 
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Zest

Freedom from Samsara
No you’re right it’s all about an agenda against Lo Celso - you know better. Jesus wept - is it that difficult to find someone on here that has an intellectual capacity greater than that of squirrel?

Newsflash - this isn’t actually about Lo Celso - it’s about the reaction to this player by some supporters. Those who are highly selective with this ( Seggesson has just has been as mixed as Lo Celso but the reaction has been every different For him), who choose to exaggerate performances which they wouldn’t do for other players. This happens routinely over the years with Lo Celso being the latest. Just read back through the thread and look at the level of hyperbolisim at play.

I can understand when child fans do this but when grown men do it is it cringeworthy and embarrassing. Lo Celso has played the grand total of five full games in the league with 0 assists and 0 goals. In some of those games like the Norwich away he did absolutely nothing where as he was decent in the home tie.

When a player isn’t generating wide praise amongst his own supporter base, gains zero traction in the media and other football supporters it is a tell tale sign they haven’t don’t much so far. Does that mean he should be written off - no it doesn't, it’s a simp Lee case of being honest and not giving praise or accolades that simply isn’t warranted. As for Dembele and Jan not being singled out for praise by others - Jan got into the PFA team of the year in his first season and both he and Dembele qualities have been widely acknowledged ( even Carragher only the other week said Jan had been one of the best CM in the league in the last decade).

But hey you really really really want him to do well so who cares about his actual performances because that all that matters to people like you is what you want .

So, in the last few days we've had Mourinho gushing about LoCelso, now In Wright...

Maybe, it's you who is slower than others to see qualities in a player?


Sometimes it takes me 10-15 games to get a strong sense of my perception of their potential, LoCelso has an x factor which is readily apparent, that glue like control, his body shape when taking the ball and moving away from players, his grit in tackling and chasing back, he has world class potential clearly on display.

Suppose Ian Wright is a childlike Spurs fan and not in the media then?
 

HampshireSpur

🇺🇦
So, in the last few days we've had Mourinho gushing about LoCelso, now In Wright...

Maybe, it's you who is slower than others to see qualities in a player?


Sometimes it takes me 10-15 games to get a strong sense of my perception of their potential, LoCelso has an x factor which is readily apparent, that glue like control, his body shape when taking the ball and moving away from players, his grit in tackling and chasing back, he has world class potential clearly on display.

Suppose Ian Wright is a childlike Spurs fan and not in the media then?
The thing about Lo Celso isn’t so much his technical ability but how he always seems to have time on the ball - the mark of a top player.
 
So, in the last few days we've had Mourinho gushing about LoCelso, now In Wright...

Maybe, it's you who is slower than others to see qualities in a player?


Sometimes it takes me 10-15 games to get a strong sense of my perception of their potential, LoCelso has an x factor which is readily apparent, that glue like control, his body shape when taking the ball and moving away from players, his grit in tackling and chasing back, he has world class potential clearly on display.

Suppose Ian Wright is a childlike Spurs fan and not in the media then?

Did you even read what Wright said? Did you miss the part where he said he has shown it in flashes and that we won’t see the best of him until next season? You could make the exact same point about Ndombele and Seggesson but I don’t see the same exaggeration at play. The fact that Wright claims he has pace tells me he hasn’t watched him too much.

Again his Spurs career so far has been mixed, some decent performances like Norwich at home some poor like the Sheffield United and Norwich away games.

He still has it all to prove, much like all of our other Summer signings have to do. He simply hasn’t had the start that someone like VDV or Ali had to their Spurs careers so I really don’t understand this attempt to suggest that he has and try to claim his performances as something they are not.

Jose is starting to like him ( and took criticism from those who like to exaggerate for not playing him). That’s great - he has also said Tanguy has amazing talent but that doesn’t alter the fact that like Le Celso his career so far has been mixed and that he still has much to prove.

But as I said before it’s like dealing with children - all feelings, little facts.
 
The thing about Lo Celso isn’t so much his technical ability but how he always seems to have time on the ball - the mark of a top player.
He has no hesitation. So refreshing to see. We have other players who make the same passes but their brain doesnt see it as quick and good opposition then intercept/adapt to stop it because they see what the player is going to do. With GLC he is so sharp that it defeats the opposition, he is half a step ahead all the time. Great attitude too, sky is the limit for him.
 

Zest

Freedom from Samsara
But as I said before it’s like dealing with children - all feelings, little facts.

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Yeah, it's everyone else being like children...

IMO NDombele and Sessegnon have both shown 30/10% of what LoCelso has respectively. You just haven't got the eye for a player 95% of others here have, no shame it that fella.
 

HampshireSpur

🇺🇦
He has no hesitation. So refreshing to see. We have other players who make the same passes but their brain doesnt see it as quick and good opposition then intercept/adapt to stop it because they see what the player is going to do. With GLC he is so sharp that it defeats the opposition, he is half a step ahead all the time. Great attitude too, sky is the limit for him.

Modric like in that sense (I am not saying he will be that good!)
 

Darnswim

The prodigal son. 🇦🇱🇺🇦🇦🇱🇺🇦🇦🇱🇺🇦
Would love to see examples of my hatred? Must be easy to find where I said he was crap.
Saying a player is shit when he was one of, if not the best, players on the pitch, is classified like hatred in my book. I like how he plays, but I can't change the fact that he was non-existant today, but, this was unlike other days.
 
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