Ex-Spurs Player Giovani Lo Celso

[Herclueless]

The Locelso revisionism is stunning he has been shit, crap for probably 95% of his time at the club. Picking up wages under completely bogus circumstances.Just like Ndombele, iffy commitment flashes of
talent undermined by long stretches of near invisibility. Now he's made a solid and good contribution to TWO whole matches he some how vindicated he isn't! He has to keep effecting games big games, goals and assists little man ( the cunting off of the Norwegian was also by the way). But there's folk here going way to early on he's always been brilliant! WTF bogus narrative or what! like Ndombele our third record signing has been a massive let down. Fans did not just get up and hate them( LOL I told my gooner ex boss he was going to be better than Kevin D B!!!!) I was buzzing when Crocket and Tubbs signed well Tubbs is making out with a bucket of Rocky road somewhere in Anatolia and Crocket at last seems like he has flickered to life, till Maddison returns I hope to God he keeps going....but we've been here before. Our fan base is just odd. They Locelso and Ndombele wrote their stories we didn't just decide to shit on them we invest huge belife in these two :here's the joke James Maddison I DID DISLIKE!! But in the empirical evidence of the blokes genius week after week like any sane person I got down the club shop got his shirt and went to the Tattoo parlour ( love you James). That's how being a fan works not the Ndombele Locelso way round

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It's funny, I definitely agree that there has been some revisionism, but I see it in entirely the other direction...

Up until Conte there seemed to be plenty of goodwill toward GLC, he was good under Mourinho, if not overly productive statistically, at most there was frustration at his injury record.

Then Conte came in, almost immediately loaned him out for 18 months, and at some point it became the popular opinion that GLC had been nothing but dreadful for us.

Aside from the goals, I don't think he's doing anything now that he hadn't done in a Spurs shirt before Conte.

 

[Deleted member 15314]

No it wouldn't.

Just look at Sarr and Bissouma. Two players that were here but never trusted. Yet they were absolutely integral parts to our brilliant run of first 10 games.

Madders wouldn't have even got a chance under Conte and with surrendering the midfield AND playing low defense line, VDV wouldn't have been nearly as effective as he has been under Ange. Plus he was so miserable fucking waste of oxygen that Romero said he would have left if this cancer would have stayed with us. So... no.

For the exact same squad we have, we would have still been shit under Conte. So many so obvious indications of that all over the place.

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Definitely true for Conte second season, but we were flying in his first season, maybe he wouldn't have gone psycho if we had a real back line and keeper. Even Romero missed significant chunks of that season through injury and suspension.

Mourinho showed much more humility and patience, and now he's got roma in the top 4 in Serie A.

Maybe neither would have done as well as Ange but they definitely would have done much much better than they did.

 

[Richard Arlison]

View: https://x.com/TheSpursExpress/status/1732738415806795777?s=20

small sample size and all that but Gio is bang in form. Couldn't have happened at a better time too.

 

[TheSpurEst]

It's funny, I definitely agree that there has been some revisionism, but I see it in entirely the other direction...

Up until Conte there seemed to be plenty of goodwill toward GLC, he was good under Mourinho, if not overly productive statistically, at most there was frustration at his injury record.

Then Conte came in, almost immediately loaned him out for 18 months, and at some point it became the popular opinion that GLC had been nothing but dreadful for us.

Aside from the goals, I don't think he's doing anything now that he hadn't done in a Spurs shirt before Conte.

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Umm... nope the revisionism is still correct way around.
He has been useless for us almost whole of the time he has been with us.
I agree that it is positive that he is currently contributing and proving his value - we are all Spurs supporters here and want what is best for the club. I really hope he can keep up his current performance levels and be useful for us in shorter or longer term.

But if you look at facts (ABOUT PAST, not talking about 2-games-spell) -
1) He was signed factually on Aug 2019.
2) Then he stayed for us until January 2022. That is period of 2,5 seasons (!!!) with us before any loans. TWO AND A HALF.
3) Only after that he was sent out to loan for 1,5 seasons.
4) Following that, Ange took over, and sure enough he was not available again, being able or good enough only to play 24 minutes from 990 possible in first 11 rounds this season.

You are utterly clutching the straws if you try to claim like this one or two months spell under Mou, when he ran bit more and gave some forward passes was anywhere close to "proving himself". Very-very-very far in fact. He did extremely little with all that time, either he was injured, not fully fit or travelling to/from Argentina and was in COVID isolation. With this period he only played 2692 minutes of EPL football. And contributed 1 goal and 3 assists with that time... as an attacking midfielder.
All of the remaining time (potential playing time with 2,5 seasons + 11 rounds this season is 9540 minutes; so 6848 minutes he was deemed either injured, unfit or just not good enough) he produced 0 value in EPL games during that time.

So NO people did not "convince" themselves in anything. 2,5 seasons of football + first 11 rounds this season and over 9500 minutes proved very thoroughly that he was utterly useless, ineffective and pointless for us.

And again - it is positive that he is doing well now. I really hope we can see this kind of Gio for long time. But he has months upon months upon months of good performances to make to prove anything significant.

 

[GOAT]

But he has months upon months upon months of good performances to make to prove anything significant.

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Ridiculous attitude tbh.

Us REAL spurs fans will just enjoy each good performance that he turns in, and criticise (fairly) when he plays poorly.

That's it.

He cannot (and we cannot) change the past.

 

[Richard Arlison]

Umm... nope the revisionism is still correct way around.
He has been useless for us almost whole of the time he has been with us.
I agree that it is positive that he is currently contributing and proving his value - we are all Spurs supporters here and want what is best for the club. I really hope he can keep up his current performance levels and be useful for us in shorter or longer term.

But if you look at facts (ABOUT PAST, not talking about 2-games-spell) -
1) He was signed factually on Aug 2019.
2) Then he stayed for us until January 2022. That is period of 2,5 seasons (!!!) with us before any loans. TWO AND A HALF.
3) Only after that he was sent out to loan for 1,5 seasons.
4) Following that, Ange took over, and sure enough he was not available again, being able or good enough only to play 24 minutes from 990 possible in first 11 rounds this season.

You are utterly clutching the straws if you try to claim like this one or two months spell under Mou, when he ran bit more and gave some forward passes was anywhere close to "proving himself". Very-very-very far in fact. He did extremely little with all that time, either he was injured, not fully fit or travelling to/from Argentina and was in COVID isolation. With this period he only played 2692 minutes of EPL football. And contributed 1 goal and 3 assists with that time... as an attacking midfielder.
All of the remaining time (potential playing time with 2,5 seasons + 11 rounds this season is 9540 minutes; so 6848 minutes he was deemed either injured, unfit or just not good enough) he produced 0 value in EPL games during that time.

So NO people did not "convince" themselves in anything. 2,5 seasons of football + first 11 rounds this season and over 9500 minutes proved very thoroughly that he was utterly useless, ineffective and pointless for us.

And again - it is positive that he is doing well now. I really hope we can see this kind of Gio for long time. But he has months upon months upon months of good performances to make to prove anything significant.

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What would happen if he has many good games for Ange as Maddison has?

Just hypothetically

 

[Airfixx]

Definitely true for Conte second season, but we were flying in his first season, maybe he wouldn't have gone psycho if we had a real back line and keeper. Even Romero missed significant chunks of that season through injury and suspension.

Mourinho showed much more humility and patience, and now he's got roma in the top 4 in Serie A.

Maybe neither would have done as well as Ange but they definitely would have done much much better than they did.

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Porro - Was here
Biss - Was here
Sarr - Was here
Rich - Was here
Gil - Was here
Lo Celso - Was here
...............None of which he got a tune out of or even bothered to try.

Maddison - Lore says he didn't want him
BJ - He'd have been treated like Gil.

Vicario - would have been a big plus given Lloris's form last season.
VDV - Conte/Jose would have asked him to play a completely different way; a way that likely doesn't suit him.

 

[Airfixx]

What would happen if he has many good games for Ange as Maddison has?

Just hypothetically

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Much rejoicing.

 

[TheSpurEst]

What would happen if he has many good games for Ange as Maddison has?

Just hypothetically

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Well, long way to that.
Gio, despite massive improvement, has had 0 games as good as Madders, despite one being here for almost 3 seasons, other 3 months .

 

[Deleted member 15314]

Porro - Was here
Biss - Was here
Sarr - Was here
Rich - Was here
Gil - Was here
Lo Celso - Was here
...............None of which he got a tune out of or even bothered to try.

Maddison - Lore says he didn't want him
BJ - He'd have been treated like Gil.

Vicario - would have been a big plus given Lloris's form last season.
VDV - Conte/Jose would have asked him to play a completely different way; a way that likely doesn't suit him.

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You're right, but there's a clear dividing line between his first season and the second where he went insane, but there was definitely something there.

In his first season he got a tune out of Davies, Dier, Sessegnon, Doherty etc. We even put together some absolutely fantastic possession play that equals anything we've seen under Ange, like the third goal against City in the 2-3 win, with a build up sequence of like 30 passes.

Battered liverpool with a midfield of Ndombele, Winks and Dele, and only got a draw cos of poor finishing. Even in the second season we'd probably be 10-15 points better off if Lloris and Dier didn't just keep gifting ridiculous goals on a weekly basis.

Mou and especially Conte acted like twats over player signings/quality instead of trying to work with what they had. I did say a while back that if he wasn't such a cunt, he'd be the one enjoying the fruits of our transfer labour with Vicario, Udogie, VDV, etc. In many ways they suit his style even more than Angeball.

Which is why I'll always wonder if things would have been different if we'd just given either one of them a top CB, especially Mourinho.

 

[Herclueless]

Umm... nope the revisionism is still correct way around.
He has been useless for us almost whole of the time he has been with us.
I agree that it is positive that he is currently contributing and proving his value - we are all Spurs supporters here and want what is best for the club. I really hope he can keep up his current performance levels and be useful for us in shorter or longer term.

But if you look at facts (ABOUT PAST, not talking about 2-games-spell) -
1) He was signed factually on Aug 2019.
2) Then he stayed for us until January 2022. That is period of 2,5 seasons (!!!) with us before any loans. TWO AND A HALF.
3) Only after that he was sent out to loan for 1,5 seasons.
4) Following that, Ange took over, and sure enough he was not available again, being able or good enough only to play 24 minutes from 990 possible in first 11 rounds this season.

You are utterly clutching the straws if you try to claim like this one or two months spell under Mou, when he ran bit more and gave some forward passes was anywhere close to "proving himself". Very-very-very far in fact. He did extremely little with all that time, either he was injured, not fully fit or travelling to/from Argentina and was in COVID isolation. With this period he only played 2692 minutes of EPL football. And contributed 1 goal and 3 assists with that time... as an attacking midfielder.
All of the remaining time (potential playing time with 2,5 seasons + 11 rounds this season is 9540 minutes; so 6848 minutes he was deemed either injured, unfit or just not good enough) he produced 0 value in EPL games during that time.

So NO people did not "convince" themselves in anything. 2,5 seasons of football + first 11 rounds this season and over 9500 minutes proved very thoroughly that he was utterly useless, ineffective and pointless for us.

And again - it is positive that he is doing well now. I really hope we can see this kind of Gio for long time. But he has months upon months upon months of good performances to make to prove anything significant.

Click to shrink...

So before these two games you were adamant he was dreadful, whilst I argued the case that in fact he wasn't dreadful, that his performances in a Spurs shirt were actually alright despite a lack of g/a, he was a competent footballer when on the pitch.

Now he's played two games, done exactly what he did prior to being bombed out by Conte, but also scored two in two, and you're still sticking to your guns that he was awful before and has just miraculously been good out of nowhere these last 2 games???

He's doing exactly what he did previously, he just happens to have found the net twice.

The two goals don't make him a great player, and the lack of goals previously didn't make him a terrible player.

I swear people just automatically conflate him and Ndombele because they happened to be signed in the same window...

You can't claim that I'm guilty of revisionism when I was saying he was a capable player prior to the two games where he has performed capably. On the flipside nobody was complaining that he was a terrible player in his original stint until after Conte did a number on him.

 

[Airfixx]

You're right, but there's a clear dividing line between his first season and the second where he went insane, but there was definitely something there.

In his first season he got a tune out of Davies, Dier, Sessegnon, Doherty etc. We even put together some absolutely fantastic possession play that equals anything we've seen under Ange, like the third goal against City in the 2-3 win, with a build up sequence of like 30 passes.

Battered liverpool with a midfield of Ndombele, Winks and Dele, and only got a draw cos of poor finishing. Even in the second season we'd probably be 10-15 points better off if Lloris and Dier didn't just keep gifting ridiculous goals on a weekly basis.

Mou and especially Conte acted like twats over player signings/quality instead of trying to work with what they had. I did say a while back that if he wasn't such a cunt, he'd be the one enjoying the fruits of our transfer labour with Vicario, Udogie, VDV, etc. In many ways they suit his style even more than Angeball.

Which is why I'll always wonder if things would have been different if we'd just given either one of them a top CB, especially Mourinho.

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Of course a better squad increases any managers chances of success.......

Being kind to Jose.... I think it was a shit time for the club and football in general..... He had a brutal spell of injuries too.

Conte: I suspect that he never truly got his hooks into them until his 1st pre-season.... There was such a good buzz when they arrived in Korea, but the performances sucked and most came back looking miserable and deflated...... And numerous players have since commented about him curbing their instincts or shown a clear disliking of the bloke.

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

Umm... nope the revisionism is still correct way around.
He has been useless for us almost whole of the time he has been with us.
I agree that it is positive that he is currently contributing and proving his value - we are all Spurs supporters here and want what is best for the club. I really hope he can keep up his current performance levels and be useful for us in shorter or longer term.

But if you look at facts (ABOUT PAST, not talking about 2-games-spell) -
1) He was signed factually on Aug 2019.
2) Then he stayed for us until January 2022. That is period of 2,5 seasons (!!!) with us before any loans. TWO AND A HALF.
3) Only after that he was sent out to loan for 1,5 seasons.
4) Following that, Ange took over, and sure enough he was not available again, being able or good enough only to play 24 minutes from 990 possible in first 11 rounds this season.

You are utterly clutching the straws if you try to claim like this one or two months spell under Mou, when he ran bit more and gave some forward passes was anywhere close to "proving himself". Very-very-very far in fact. He did extremely little with all that time, either he was injured, not fully fit or travelling to/from Argentina and was in COVID isolation. With this period he only played 2692 minutes of EPL football. And contributed 1 goal and 3 assists with that time... as an attacking midfielder.
All of the remaining time (potential playing time with 2,5 seasons + 11 rounds this season is 9540 minutes; so 6848 minutes he was deemed either injured, unfit or just not good enough) he produced 0 value in EPL games during that time.

So NO people did not "convince" themselves in anything. 2,5 seasons of football + first 11 rounds this season and over 9500 minutes proved very thoroughly that he was utterly useless, ineffective and pointless for us.

And again - it is positive that he is doing well now. I really hope we can see this kind of Gio for long time. But he has months upon months upon months of good performances to make to prove anything significant.

Click to shrink...

Think people have some weird Covid-19/ locked down induced memory issues. You are bang on. Anyway it's great that after nearly three years we are belatedly getting some value for money. I hope he's so good he makes the return of Maddison not the absolute shoe-in that it is.But based on simple stats (mins played goals and assists injuries form loans...)not emotion or liking or disliking his hair right now if you said we'd sell and get Eze from Palace...Well I'd light a Cohiba and break out the malt.

 

[TonySoprano]

Think people have some weird Covid-19/ locked down induced memory issues. You are bang on. Anyway it's great that after nearly three years we are belatedly getting some value for money. I hope he's so good he makes the return of Maddison not the absolute shoe-in that it is.

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It’s absurd, go back 100 pages in this thread and read what was being written about him. He was being absolutely slaughtered by almost everyone on here.
I swear some people just re-write history in their own heads. Fortunately the evidence is in this very thread.

 

[TonySoprano]

Is this guy capable of hitting a fucking shot with a modicum of power? Nothing more than tame backpasses some of his efforts. Shite free-kicks too. Such a disappointment this guy.

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Weak mentality and physicality, probably ok in La Liga or some other 5 hard games a year shithole but not in England.

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I have never seen a player so one footed. Which fucking prick scouted him because they should be investigated.

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I never thought I’d see a left footed player with a strike as bad as Lamela’s but my got this guy takes the award.
It’s quite incredible how he seems incapable of striking a ball properly. He also does that stupid thing Lamela used to do where he falls over after trying to shoot the ball with his strong foot. Just painful to watch.

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That’s just from one page. There is a LOT more of that as well.

 

[Deleted member 15314]

Of course a better squad increases any managers chances of success.......

Being kind to Jose.... I think it was a shit time for the club and football in general..... He had a brutal spell of injuries too.

Conte: I suspect that he never truly got his hooks into them until his 1st pre-season.... There was such a good buzz when they arrived in Korea, but the performances sucked and most came back looking miserable and deflated...... And numerous players have since commented about him curbing their instincts or shown a clear disliking of the bloke.

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My point isn't that we'd have just done better, but it might have prevented the toxicity and doward spiral. If we'd signed Skriniar for Mou, I'm 100% certain we would have finished top 4, we were just 5 points off top, and conceded so many stupid goals that even a bang average CB would have prevented.

Imagine it was Skiriniar instead of Sanchez up against that Dynamo Zagreb winger who skinned Sanchez, or in the league cup final against City.

Conte was far too unreasonable and toxic but maybe even he would have been apeased with a proper CB signing instead of Lenglet.

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

It’s absurd, go back 100 pages in this thread and read what was being written about him. He was being absolutely slaughtered by almost everyone on here.
I swear some people just re-write history in their own heads. Fortunately the evidence is in this very thread.

Click to shrink...

Mate we are an odd fan base, I think you can go back to Pratt. Or the folk that did genuinely decide to boo Bales name in the stadium ( I was there that day wondering WTF that would do for this little boys confidence) but the sudden 'he was always more sinned against on Locelso, wow! Hate to say it but I don't see a British footballer with his contribution or though it pains me to think it certain other kinds of player getting cut this slack. I think the Argentine International thing as really shielded him.

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

Well, long way to that.
Gio, despite massive improvement, has had 0 games as good as Madders, despite one being here for almost 3 seasons, other 3 months .

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Here's a hand-grenade his best game thus far isn't as impressive as Fatty fatty fat fats! Let alone James( the daddy)Maddisons.

 

[Spaniel]

Umm... nope the revisionism is still correct way around.
He has been useless for us almost whole of the time he has been with us.
I agree that it is positive that he is currently contributing and proving his value - we are all Spurs supporters here and want what is best for the club. I really hope he can keep up his current performance levels and be useful for us in shorter or longer term.

But if you look at facts (ABOUT PAST, not talking about 2-games-spell) -
1) He was signed factually on Aug 2019.
2) Then he stayed for us until January 2022. That is period of 2,5 seasons (!!!) with us before any loans. TWO AND A HALF.
3) Only after that he was sent out to loan for 1,5 seasons.
4) Following that, Ange took over, and sure enough he was not available again, being able or good enough only to play 24 minutes from 990 possible in first 11 rounds this season.

You are utterly clutching the straws if you try to claim like this one or two months spell under Mou, when he ran bit more and gave some forward passes was anywhere close to "proving himself". Very-very-very far in fact. He did extremely little with all that time, either he was injured, not fully fit or travelling to/from Argentina and was in COVID isolation. With this period he only played 2692 minutes of EPL football. And contributed 1 goal and 3 assists with that time... as an attacking midfielder.
All of the remaining time (potential playing time with 2,5 seasons + 11 rounds this season is 9540 minutes; so 6848 minutes he was deemed either injured, unfit or just not good enough) he produced 0 value in EPL games during that time.

So NO people did not "convince" themselves in anything. 2,5 seasons of football + first 11 rounds this season and over 9500 minutes proved very thoroughly that he was utterly useless, ineffective and pointless for us.

And again - it is positive that he is doing well now. I really hope we can see this kind of Gio for long time. But he has months upon months upon months of good performances to make to prove anything significant.

Click to shrink...

Here's hoping....

 

[TheSpurEst]

So before these two games you were adamant he was dreadful, whilst I argued the case that in fact he wasn't dreadful, that his performances in a Spurs shirt were actually alright despite a lack of g/a, he was a competent footballer when on the pitch.

Now he's played two games, done exactly what he did prior to being bombed out by Conte, but also scored two in two, and you're still sticking to your guns that he was awful before and has just miraculously been good out of nowhere these last 2 games???

He's doing exactly what he did previously, he just happens to have found the net twice.

The two goals don't make him a great player, and the lack of goals previously didn't make him a terrible player.

I swear people just automatically conflate him and Ndombele because they happened to be signed in the same window...

You can't claim that I'm guilty of revisionism when I was saying he was a capable player prior to the two games where he has performed capably. On the flipside nobody was complaining that he was a terrible player in his original stint until after Conte did a number on him.

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I don't care however many empty words you nest around one point.
Being goal-threat is MAJOR part of being an attacking midfielder. And return of 1 goal from 58 games is absolutely fucking pathetic. Useless. Miserable. Massive flop. For his 1 EPL goal, there was full showreel of really-really-really poor and soft shots. While everyone make mistakes and surely Kane also had some mishits, the ratio to goals scored to chances missed cannot be 1:20 in favor of bad shots.

In Fulham game for example it was not about shooting. It was basic ability (or well... inability) to pick any meaningful pass. In Bournemouth game, our attacking play was finished the second Lo Celso stepped onto field in expense of Madders. Sure - those two performances I do believe were impacted by his lack of playing time. BUT this came again from his injury-proneness - which has been consistent part of him and inherent part of his value for us. This has been a feature, not a bug regarding him.

Oh yea, people 100% WERE questioning him. Many fcking were. It was cool when he ran around bit more for brief period under Conte. But there were at least as many doubters then, as there were praisers, cause it is super fcking obvious that an attacking midfielder has to help side to create goals. Which he was not doing. Even besides scoring and assisting, there were so many passes that were hit like a grandmother would hit passes and intercepted by opposition on the way.

He has never performed on level that he has in past 2 games, and that is also very big part why 5 managers (incl Ange, until he had left with no choice) overlooked Lo Celso. That is why under those 5 managers he only ever spent 28% of potential minutes on the field during the time he was with us. Because HE WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH and because HE DID NOT DO ENOUGH. And no, as I admitted already after his first start - more than goalscoring has changed. I specifically pointed out his improved forward-passing after Villa game. And as proof to it, he had 100% success rate against ManCity.

This playing time stat is solid and hard fact. So as his lack of contribution to scoring and creating goals. All you have to offer from your side is "he looks good on the field" - 100% subjective statement.