Harry Kane

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todd1882 said:
When, in fact, we have a player outperforming his respective xG in our very own team due to his clinical finishing and pace in behind.
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What's also interesting is that Kane and Son's xAssists are almost identical this season. Kane with 5.0 and Son with 4.5 xAssists respectively.

The fact that Kane has 11 assists vs just 5 xAssists suggests that he has benefited tremendously from his teammates' finishing. This goes against what people are saying regarding the "lack of talent" Kane has around him.

I'm not saying that Kane hasn't been great at playing that #10/creative role because he absolutely has been tremendous... but I do find it ironic how people have been praising him non-stop for being a world class passer/creator etc while dismissing others abilities/contributions.

Generally speaking, I believe our fans have a tendency to praise the stars of the team at the expense of others. It's not a great mentality to have as far as trying to move forward and improving.
 
Igula said:
They aren’t lying they just don’t tell us anything at all.
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The tell us very much. What they don't do is encapsulate everything. Fine, but yours is not the strongest rebuttal of my finer points which are supported by the things the stats actually do tell us.
 
Dr Rocktopus said:
So he gets into positions to create goals, scores a record breaking amount of goals, but isn't a great scorer of goals?

Jesus fucking Christ.
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Now Jerry, where did anyone say the bolded part? You're better than this. I sure didn't.

And KaneDomBadBoy KaneDomBadBoy specifically said:
NDomBadBoy said:
I don't think he's as good a goal scorer as people tend to think he is. He has needed world class service most of the time this season to score.
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It was a relative statement...and he supported his argument with stats that showed his goal scoring THIS season is basically at his xG which means he isn't scoring beyond that which would be expected of any competent striker i.e. the table is being set for him. But putting in the chances that come to you is great...just not irreplaceable thing that folks would like to think. The stats also showed his assist tally, actual outpacing his expected, are bolstered by the clinical finishing of his teammate.

Care to address any of those points? Emotional appeals are fine but more often than not they can send us down the wrong paths.
 
todd1882 said:
Now Jerry, where did anyone say the bolded part? You're better than this. I sure didn't.

And KaneDomBadBoy KaneDomBadBoy specifically said:

It was a relative statement...and he supported his argument with stats that showed his goal scoring THIS season is basically at his xG which means he isn't scoring beyond that which would be expected of any competent striker i.e. the table is being set for him. But putting in the chances that come to you is great...just not irreplaceable thing that folks would like to think. The stats also showed his assist tally, actual outpacing his expected, are bolstered by the clinical finishing of his teammate.

Care to address any of those points? Emotional appeals are fine but more often than not they can send us down the wrong paths.
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Putting in the chances that come to you is very different to putting yourself in the position to have those chances in the first place.

It's one of many reasons why I completely disregard any opinion that refers to xG. An utterly subjective 'system' that proves nothing.
 
Dr Rocktopus said:
So he gets into positions to create goals, scores a record breaking amount of goals, but isn't a great scorer of goals?

Jesus fucking Christ.
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Not at the moment, no he isnt
Thats the point some people are prepared to address
It happens every season, but wasn’t really looked at because everyone forgot how wasteful he was between August and October when he eventually began to find the net
 
NDomBadBoy said:
What's also interesting is that Kane and Son's xAssists are almost identical this season. Kane with 5.0 and Son with 4.5 xAssists respectively.

The fact that Kane has 11 assists vs just 5 xAssists suggests that he has benefited tremendously from his teammates' finishing. This goes against what people are saying regarding the "lack of talent" Kane has around him.

I'm not saying that Kane hasn't been great at playing that #10/creative role because he absolutely has been tremendous... but I do find it ironic how people have been praising him non-stop for being a world class passer/creator etc while dismissing others abilities/contributions.

Generally speaking, I believe our fans have a tendency to praise the stars of the team at the expense of others. It's not a great mentality to have as far as trying to move forward and improving.
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People keep saying that Kane and Son carried us, then when Son turns shit, they have no problem addressing that, then it becomes “Kane carried us”

What if Son is suffering due to Kane’s form though? Naaaaah let’s blame Dier

Ndombele has only three assists.
What if Kane had finished more chances though, and Ndombele had 6?
Naaaaaaah that’s on Moura

Lamela should have at least one more assist for his brilliant effort v West Ham but Kane couldn’t hit the target. Five times I believe.

I guess if you improve your shot conversion rate, you won’t need as many chances......apparently he’s under so much pressure because we “don’t create” that he needs ten to score one goal like v Everton.

Naaaaah that’s Winks fault for losing possession 60 yards from our goal
 
Dr Rocktopus said:
Putting in the chances that come to you is very different to putting yourself in the position to have those chances in the first place.
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A distinction that makes very little difference to the point that was made. You want to suggest some intangible to make your point but have no supportive basis for it but on the flipside...

Dr Rocktopus said:
It's one of many reasons why I completely disregard any opinion that refers to xG. An utterly subjective 'system' that proves nothing.
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...you want to discount everything you can so you perspective can stand unchallenged. Nice work if you can get it. Were I a cynical man I would suggest bad faith and bias on your part. But I'm not a cynical man.
My eyes tell me that Harry is a dependent striker. Nothing wrong with that but i don't go crazy over such players. The xG stats only supported what I saw.
 
todd1882 said:
A gif and 6 emojis in 2 replies. Man, you are serious today aren't you? And signed up all of 8 months ago. Spurs' fan #1 you are.

But next time use your words.
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What has the amount of time I've spent on this forum got to do with anything? Bit lame, todd.

Seriously, I cannot believe anybody is disparaging a man who is not only our second greatest goal scorer and has proven time and again that he can thread a ball through the eye of a needle when necessary, but is widely respected by all players. There's not a defence he goes up against that doesn't fear what he can do, because he's done it so often.

Yes, he can go missing in games - like every footballer on the planet - and of course he misses shots - like every striker. But his football IQ is off the charts and he's proven himself in every single season he's played. There is no poor season, just injury-riddled ones. To suggest he's not as good a goal scorer as people think he is is like suggesting Paul McCartney is not as good a song writer as history suggests just because he wrote The Frog Chorus.
 
todd1882 said:
A distinction that makes very little difference to the point that was made. You want to suggest some intangible to make your point but have no supportive basis for it but on the flipside...


...you want to discount everything you can so you perspective can stand unchallenged. Nice work if you can get it. Were I a cynical man I would suggest bad faith and bias on your part. But I'm not a cynical man.
My eyes tell me that Harry is a dependent striker. Nothing wrong with that but i don't go crazy over such players. The xG stats only supported what I saw.
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I certainly respect your opinion (not just on this issue) and I can see where you're coming from.

Kane is not above criticism, and he's not been in great form recently, but I'm a believer in overall form buying a level of faith and trust. Kane has had dips in form before but always comes back strongly. He'll finish the season as one of the highest scorers, and his general play has improved.

Is that bias? Perhaps. Is it earnt? I think so. And I don't consider him to be a dependent striker. I think he's too busy picking up the slack in this team to have the opportunities to create many chances for himself.
 
eanN17 said:
It's so quiet. Love it.
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I did it a few days ago. Feeling...

Relaxed Chill Out GIF by Churchill
 
Dr Rocktopus said:
I certainly respect your opinion (not just on this issue) and I can see where you're coming from.
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Back at ya!

Dr Rocktopus said:
Kane is not above criticism, and he's not been in great form recently, but I'm a believer in overall form buying a level of faith and trust. Kane has had dips in form before but always comes back strongly. He'll finish the season as one of the highest scorers, and his general play has improved.
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Fair and not in dispute by me. My point is not about the quality he brings but the bigger picture. I won't rehash that but to say a dependent player can be replaced and to suggest that we won't necessarily suffer too much in the grand scheme if we do it right (there is another argument to be had about our front office's ability to do it right but that is another matter that doesn't detract from the merits- IMO - of this point). We are absolute shit with him presently so moving him on and reinvesting the money throughout the squad would seem a reasonable perspective. I think folks are just scared.

Dr Rocktopus said:
Is that bias? Perhaps. Is it earnt? I think so.
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My charge was more innocuous than that. We are all Spurs' supporters and Harry scores our goals. Hard to be objective in that situation.

Dr Rocktopus said:
And I don't consider him to be a dependent striker. I think he's too busy picking up the slack in this team to have the opportunities to create many chances for himself.
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Yeah, I see it differently but that's ok. I CBA to check the stats and you couldn't care less about them but it would be interesting to see the disparity between actual and xG for his career. Probably still be hard to convince folks of it as it has also been to show that his goal tallies is a product of chances. He doesn't get those chances anymore and hasn't done for some time.
 
Using the term "front office" and purely stats, and viewing and using them to skew a discussion in one specific way based on a conclusion you started with, to me shows you have no feel or understanding of team sports, outside the world of stats based American sports
 
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