Ex-Spurs Player Harry Kane

Datzlo · 23 Dec 2021

sammyspurs said:
During the period you just lauded the manager and team as being far superior we lost two semis and a final

Yes, because despite the fact we had such a good team we were still not quite good enough to overcome the advantages of super-rich powerhouses. What a mystery!

sammyspurs said:
You claimed we lost these games due to poor tactics earlier

Well clearly the tactics were not good enough to overcome the advantages of super-rich powerhouse clubs. Was this confusing you?

sammyspurs said:
Contes the manager last time I checked

But isn't the one who succeeded Poch, last time I checked. Sorry, my sentiment is to the badge, so I don't really look at losing league position as a means to get a new manager as I think it hurts the club. I don't think like a Chelsea fan.

sammyspurs said:
How can I twist “who cares”?

How can I twist: Golden Boot and great Euro 2020?

sammyspurs said:
Yes it does

No it doesn't. Your analogy is stupid and doesn't work.

I already explained why, but just like with everything else you can't argue against that explanation.

sammyspurs said:
He had one goal and one assist under Nuno

sammyspurs said:
Now he has one goal and no assists since Conte

Against a big team. Isn't that what you wanted? How can I twist scoring against Liverpool...

sammyspurs said:
That’s not improving

According to your last 700 pages of argument, it is exactly that.

:contelol:

sammyspurs said:
No I’m comparing the fact that just because you did something 4 days ago it doesn’t make it a norm

But it does show improvement

:contelol:

sammyspurs said:
So coming on late means you can’t play well?
As I said, poor subs

They won the game. Isn't that what you wanted from the team?

sammyspurs said:
I am, and I’ll be happy when he starts to build his own team as opposed to being forced to recycle the shite that Poch Jose and Nuno built

"THE SHITE THAT POCH BUILT"

Ah yes, that awful period where were never out of the Top 4, challenged for the title, scored the most goals in the league one year with best GD, and made our first ever CL final.

You care fuck all for the badge, mate, if that's what you call shite.

sammyspurs said:
So what you are saying is that Kane was better under Jose and Mason than under Conte?

Well no. Do you understand that lying doesn't make you right?

sammyspurs said:
I agree, that’s why Conte will replace him

Why would he, when he says he is world class?

sammyspurs · 23 Dec 2021

Raumdeuterz said:
Says the man who thinks anything which happened past this half season is irrelevant. Kane's goal in the past don't matter now because he's been bad so far this season, right? Your logic switches so quickly it's incredible.

Facts say that in RECENT games we've been shit going forward without Kane. One goal from open play in the four games we played without him, struggling vs Europe's shitest sides when he isn't in the team too.

You look only at PPG, why not how many goals we scored without? That would actually show if we're a better attacking team without him. What does Kane have to do with us defensively? I imagine if we look at goals per game with and without, and our xG with and without, it'd be less when we don't have Kane in this team.

And as Datzlo says - sample size is important here. With Kane is far more games.

It’s happened every season including this one.

Datzlo · 23 Dec 2021

sammyspurs said:
It’s not funny at all, it’s cost us silverware and got them sacked

Why didn't they sack Kane, since you claim it was all his fault for being a bottle job?

And why aren't you coaching a top flight club? You're clearly so much smarter than all of them!

sammyspurs said:
He has the players he has

And he rates them much higher than you do. How can this be, when you are such a towering football intellect?

Do tell.

:conteshock:

The Outsider · 23 Dec 2021

Igula said:
It is great that other teams with different tactics play different ways. We are not City and Liverpool have Firmino, Jota and Origi.

Son can have all the words he wants but he is a starter so he isn't over for Kane. This has been gone over here multiple times and every time it is brought up it is correctly pointed out how stupid it is to claim that Son is cover for Kane.

Are you reading another website - who claimed Son is cover for Kane - was it only you?

There is no direct cover for Kane that is a weakness in the squad - but the issue isn't the goals from our lone striker, again this is a football fact so you may not know it, but Kane is the top scoring striker in the EPL over the last 7 years, ergo that is not a weakness.

Our weakness comes from the lack of goals from the rest of the team - Sonny 'NOT COVER FOR KANE' - is a world class attacking wide player who scores plenty, but after that it dries up real fast.

You might not want to look at the way all the successful teams in the EPL play, why would you it's football basics after all, but if you got out of your own arse and actually looked you would see that all the top managers now play with a lone striker, allowing for 2/3 attacking midfield players to score most of the goals ... you may think playing with two old fashioned centre forwards will work, but you'd be a fool if you truly believed that.

Klopp, Pep, Conte have forgotten more than you will ever know about football - listen to them and learn.

sammyspurs · 23 Dec 2021

Datzlo said:
Yes, because despite the fact we had such a good team we were still not quite good enough to overcome the advantages of super-rich powerhouses. What a mystery!

But you blamed the manager and poor tactics.
We’ve beaten City 4 times without Kane.

We beat Chelsea and Utd in the PL the same season we lost to them in the cups
So that blows you wide open yet again

Datzlo said:
Well clearly the tactics were not good enough to overcome the advantages of super-rich powerhouse clubs. Was this confusing you?

So Poch was also a serial loser

Datzlo said:
Against a big team. Isn't that what you wanted? How can I twist scoring against Liverpool...

Hmmm one goal and one assist is more than one goal and no assists

Datzlo said:
They won the game. Isn't that what you wanted from the team?

Winks and Dele didn’t play well
No other way to say it really

Datzlo said:
THE SHITE THAT POCH BUILT"

100M on Ndombele and Sanchez

Datzlo said:
Well no. Do you understand that lying doesn't make you right?

So are you saying Kane is better now than last season?

Datzlo said:
Why would he, when he says he is world class?

He said Dier can be one of the best players in the world on Tuesday

Good luck with that

Deuterz · 23 Dec 2021

Datzlo said:
Why didn't they sack Kane, since you claim it was all his fault for being a bottle job?

And why aren't you coaching a top flight club? You're clearly so much smarter than all of them!

And he rates them much higher than you do. How can this be, when you are such a towering football intellect?

Do tell.

Incredible isn't it.

If it was as simple as 'look, we have more PPG without Kane, so clearly he isn't important and we're better without him' don't these people think the fucking multitude of statistical analysists we have at the club would've realised this? They don't think they have ALL this data on hand? Maybe don't imagine that the managers and coaching staff we have employed would also have an inkling?

Igula · 23 Dec 2021

The Outsider said:
Are you reading another website - who claimed Son is cover for Kane - was it only you?

There is no direct cover for Kane that is a weakness in the squad - but the issue isn't the goals from our lone striker, again this is a football fact so you may not know it, but Kane is the top scoring striker in the EPL over the last 7 years, ergo that is not a weakness.

Our weakness comes from the lack of goals from the rest of the team - Sonny 'NOT COVER FOR KANE' - is a world class attacking wide player who scores plenty, but after that it dries up real fast.

You might not want to look at the way all the successful teams in the EPL play, why would you it's football basics after all, but if you got out of your own arse and actually looked you would see that all the top managers now play with a lone striker, allowing and 2/3 attacking midfield players to score most of the goals ... you may think playing with two old fashioned centre forwards will work, but you'd be a fool if you truly believed that.

Klopp, Pep, Conte have forgotten more than you will ever know about football - listen to them and learn.

I have never said that we should play with two old fashioned centre forwards, what the hell are you talking about?

sammyspurs · 23 Dec 2021

Datzlo said:
Why didn't they sack Kane, since you claim it was all his fault for being a bottle job?

And why aren't you coaching a top flight club? You're clearly so much smarter than all of them!

Players don’t get sacked for losing games

Why aren’t you earning more money from football management than Nuno then if that’s your view?

Datzlo said:
And he rates them much higher than you do. How can this be, when you are such a towering football intellect?

He has no choice but to use them

Datzlo · 23 Dec 2021

Raumdeuterz said:
Incredible isn't it.

If it was as simple as 'look, we have more PPG without Kane, so clearly he isn't important and we're better without him' don't these people think the fucking multitude of statistical analysists we have at the club would've realised this? They don't think they have ALL this data on hand? Maybe don't imagine that the managers and coaching staff we have employed would also have an inkling?

Nah mate. They only get to see what happens in training. They don't get to view the game through beer goggles at the weekend like the true experts.

sammyspurs · 23 Dec 2021

Raumdeuterz said:
Incredible isn't it.

If it was as simple as 'look, we have more PPG without Kane, so clearly he isn't important and we're better without him' don't these people think the fucking multitude of statistical analysists we have at the club would've realised this? They don't think they have ALL this data on hand? Maybe don't imagine that the managers and coaching staff we have employed would also have an inkling?

So if we had lost 21 games, drew 9 and won 7 without Kane it would mean nothing?

Deuterz · 23 Dec 2021

sammyspurs said:
So if we had lost 21 games, drew 9 and won 7 without Kane it would mean nothing?

You've gone and created a situation which is 100x more radical than the reality.

Yes, that would mean something, because it would be statistically a huge anomaly. I'm gonna go ahead and say the gap between our PPG with and without Kane really isn't that large, and the difference between the two sample sizes means that any small difference at all isn't really as worthy of note as you seem to think it is.

If we were noticeably worse with Kane then one of the numerous coaches we pay millions to manage the side would've well, noticed .. and done something. They haven't, because it's not close to as meaningful as you think it is.

The Outsider · 23 Dec 2021

Raumdeuterz said:
Okay, so you've got one sample consisting of hundreds of games, and one with what? 30 odd? And this is a fair comparison in what universe?

The team may have been able to step up under Poch without him, it was a good team with a great work ethic, we may have dug in and won some games 1-0. That doesn't mean we were 'better' without him, just that we were capable of coping. But that's all it was, coping, otherwise the manager wouldn't have rushed him back whenever he could.

Yes, it's a team game. And almost all our managers seem to think we benefit from Kane in the team. More recently when he's been out, we've badly struggled to score goals. Maybe if/when we're back to prime Poch levels and have a great side we can afford to lose him, but we aren't there yet.

Where has anyone suggested we were better without him? the fact is we have been no worse points wise, but clearly losing a 100m striker did not make us any better. Why create a false narrative?

Of course we benefit from having the EPL's leading goal scorer - as I've tried to explain to Iguramous having the EPL's leading striker has not been the problem - our problem is since Dele's form disappeared we haven't had a midfield that has scored anywhere near enough goals to support Kane.

Kane's numbers beat any striker in the EPL however title winning City and Liverpool's midfield outscore ours (and most others) by almost 200% ... that's the issue which Conte has recognised, the problem is not Kane or even the much needed second striker, it is, and has been for a long time, the lack of goals from our midfield (Son of course excluded)

The Outsider · 23 Dec 2021

Igula said:
I have never said that we should play with two old fashioned centre forwards, what the hell are you talking about?

So why are you crying for a second striker if you will only use him to bench Kane? or did you not mean that when you said it has been a problem for years?

What the feck did you mean? We do need two strikers or we just need a reserve striker? make your mind up ......

Datzlo · 23 Dec 2021

sammyspurs said:
But you blamed the manager and poor tactics.

For Kane being out only outlet, yes.

sammyspurs said:
We’ve beaten City 4 times without Kane.

And 5 times with him. Oh dear.

sammyspurs said:
We beat Chelsea and Utd in the PL the same season we lost to them in the cups

And is that Kane's fault for only scoring 1 while the defense let in 4? Oh look I asked that earlier and you still can't answer because it blows your argument out of the water.

Lol "Now you're blaming the defense for Kane's failure!!"

sammyspurs said:
So Poch was also a serial loser

He didn't manage to win a cup, no. He did however give our badge its greatest period since the 80s. That's important to me because I care about the badge more than I care about yelling on TFC for attention.

sammyspurs said:
Hmmm one goal and one assist is more than one goal and no assists

HoW cAn I tWiSt ScOrInG aGaInSt A bIg TeAm LiKe LiVeRpOoL wHeN that's bEeN mY mAiN mEtRiC fOr 700 pAgEs?

sammyspurs said:
Winks and Dele didn’t play well

Says who? Conte seems to think they were okay, and got the job done. Why does Sammy know more than Conte?

sammyspurs said:
So are you saying Kane is better now than last season?

Nope just better than a month ago. So you are saying that Kane was fucking brilliant last season and won the Golden Boot plus scored more international goals than anyone in English football history this year?

sammyspurs said:
He said Dier can be one of the best players in the world on Tuesday

Good luck with that

Then clearly he was just talking out of his arse when he said that his tactical changes were due to covid.

Datzlo · 23 Dec 2021

sammyspurs said:
Players don’t get sacked for losing games

Why not? Clearly it was all Kane's fault!

sammyspurs said:
Why aren’t you earning more money from football management than Nuno then if that’s your view?

Because I'm not the ego-driven fool who has spent 700 pages making a tit of himself with hilariously bad arguments.

sammyspurs said:
He has no choice but to use them

And he appears glad to do so! Maybe you should use your role as consultant to let him know how terrible they all are .

:hugoshock:

Matt1882 · 23 Dec 2021

This thread, thanks to Spammy

Deuterz · 23 Dec 2021

The Outsider said:
Where has anyone suggested we were better without him? the fact is we have been no worse points wise, but clearly losing a 100m striker did not make us any better. Why create a false narrative?

Of course we benefit from having the EPL's leading goal scorer - as I've tried to explain to Iguramous having the EPL's leading striker has not been the problem - our problem is since Dele's form disappeared we haven't had a midfield that has scored anywhere near enough goals to support Kane.

Kane's numbers beat any striker in the EPL however title winning City and Liverpool's midfield outscore ours (and most others) by almost 200% ... that's the issue which Conte has recognised, the problem is not Kane or even the much needed second striker, it is, and has been for a long time, the lack of goals from our midfield (Son of course excluded)

Erm, multiple times by multiple posters in this thread the 'we have more PPG without Kane' has been suggested to mean we're better off without him in the team, or at the very least he isn't at all important to the side. That's how this stat has mostly been used.

Yes, I agree. Not enough goalscorers throughout the team with the overwhelming burden placed on Son & Kane. To his credit, Son has stepped up very well numerous times when Kane has been out, but we need players who can chip in.

I don't think we necessarily disagree with each other. I do think we need to become a much more balanced side, with goalscorers from across the pitch. If this means we mix it up and become less Kane 'centric', then great. I just view him as still extremely important to the overall unit even if he isn't the one scoring an overwhelming % of our goals .. it seems you do too.

Datzlo · 23 Dec 2021

The Outsider said:
Where has anyone suggested we were better without him? the fact is we have been no worse points wise, but clearly losing a 100m striker did not make us any better. Why create a false narrative?

Of course we benefit from having the EPL's leading goal scorer - as I've tried to explain to Iguramous having the EPL's leading striker has not been the problem - our problem is since Dele's form disappeared we haven't had a midfield that has scored anywhere near enough goals to support Kane.

Kane's numbers beat any striker in the EPL however title winning City and Liverpool's midfield outscore ours (and most others) by almost 200% ... that's the issue which Conte has recognised, the problem is not Kane or even the much needed second striker, it is, and has been for a long time, the lack of goals from our midfield (Son of course excluded)

Listen you. Stop changing the narrative. Kane is past it, in decline, and having the best striker in the league is useless unless you are going to make him your only outlet for goals. We are better without Kane and the stats prove it!

Oh and goddammit he's also the reason we lost so many finals.

Try to stay on message!

/sammy

Notabadsquad · 23 Dec 2021

TylerB said:
Pretty easy to see he's not so confident in front of goal in my opinion. It must be playing on his mind, his record in the league this season. I'm not saying confidence is the only issue because it's not, but I think it certainly plays a role for just about any player. He needs to score in successive games now, back to back.

Agree to an extent.

If Kane looks like he is giving his all then frankly, goals as important as they are, come second.

A player not committed to the cause does more damage than one who fails to score for a few games.

sammyspurs · 23 Dec 2021

Merry Christmas you slags

It’s been fun, and your passion is notable

:dierpochhug:

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