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Ex-Spurs Player Harry Kane
- Thread starter Moulman14
- Start date
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The last 4 games without Kane starting were they under Nunoball? The entire squad couldnt create
nothing playing Nunoball. It was truly dire times with or without Kane for our attackers under Nuno.
I also agreed that Kane and Son both benefitted from each other when they were quiet a lot expecially first half of last year. From Son finishing at an incredible rate and Kane looking for him and delivering with great passes.
This is not to put down Kane. Correct me if I'm wrong but is anyone really saying we would thrive without Kane? For what I can read the argument some bring up is that strictly going by the stats we have done no worse or better more or less? Is this not the case?
i trust the data. what do you have to back your claims? If we don't have Kane we have someone else. Do you think Kane is irreplacable? I'm not saying we're going to play with 10 men lol.
(and you should know that 30 is about enough for a sample size. We have more than that)
Well yes. That's indeed what is being argued by some.
NdomBB literally said that under Poch, when we were at our best, that we were winning games in spite of Kane.
Of course, the fact that Kane took 16% of our shots but scored 37% of our goals is a bit of a problem for that argument...
Well no. I was just throwing the argument back at them. Kane has been blamed for it, and us not winning finals, which is absurd.
I was making the point that the way we have played under Jose and Nuno made the difference, plus our squad's form and quality are not as good as it was compared to then.
That's all. I just cannot buy this idea that Kane is in decline when last season he was involved in 37 goals.
Only the Ajax and City CL games, and I stand by that.
Well of course. I think we all agree on that. I'm just shooting down the idea that Kane has been getting crappier over the last few years, because it's so obviously not true.
Take Kane out of the starting line up during peak Poch years and we were still winning at a very high rate. Having Kane starting statistically made a marginal difference at best. So yes, we have won in spite of Kane, not because of Kane.
Kane’s individual success was and always will be the byproduct of tactics, his teammates and players around him. That’s not taking anything away from what Kane did because he was excellent under Poch but his impact to the teams overall record/success is much less important that fans seem to suggest.
But that's just nonsense, and is simply twisting stats to back your conclusion. Playing well when we need to without Kane is not the same as Kane being a hindrance.
You brought up shot percentage, and yet Kane scored double that percentage of our goals. Kane was not a problem at all.
You can say that about literally any player. Kane's brilliance elevated the success of his team.
That's like saying that Messi wasn't all that great because he had to carry Barcelona so much that they didn't win as many trophies. Kane's importance to our team has been immense over the years, and no amount of cherry picking a minority of games where we didn't have him will change that.
Lol btw the post I made last night I don't even remember making. I was very, vety drunk, so I apologize for being ruder than I like to be.
No one said he was a hindrance. Just not as important as people make him out to be.
It's no surprise we are winning under Conte with Kane just having 2 goals, 1 assist, with a 5% goal conversion rate and -3.8 goals under xG. He's statistically been the worst forward in the PL this season yet we're in the middle of a top 4 battle and in the cup semis.
Worst 10 Premier League finishers owned by their xG is headed by Kane
Harry Kane has been a level of bad that is almost extraordinary. But one Liverpool man joins him on a list of terrible finishers this season.
www.football365.com
I pointed out the fact that our best season ever came when Kane took 16% of our shots which was the lowest of his career. When he took 31% of our shots, we finished 7th, our worst finish since the 08-09 season.
My point is that we should never allow Kane to take 30%+ of our non penalty shots a season. That's what I mean by Harry Kane ball - tactics designed to get Kane as many shots and goals as possible, instead of tactics designed to get the open player opportunities. We should be playing a much more fast paced, dynamic, and unpredictable style which Conte has us already doing. It's no surprise Kane has 2 shots or less in 5/8 games thus far under Conte and during this stretch, we've lost once.
We should focus on getting Harry and our other attackers high quality shots where they have a much higher probability of finishing their chances. The year Harry took only 16% of our shots and we finished 2nd in the League with 86 points, Kane converted 25% of them which was a career high. Taking 31% of our shots but only converting 13% like he did last year is an ineffective way of playing. Yes he'll get his goals and assists but as a team, we'll suffer.
They're 7th in the tables this season without Messi. I don't think they've ever finished below 3rd when Messi was there in 17 years. That just shows you what kind of impact he had on that team. The same can not and will not be said about Kane. A traditional #9/striker can only have so much influence on a team.
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Folks, regardless of which side of the fence you're on let's all take a break and trust in Conte to get the best out of our squad. Kane and Son have both been our best players for Spurs and two of the best in the league. I bring up Son because sometimes the debate turns ugly into Kane vs Son. IMO both players deserve more appreciation in general.
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Are you sure that's the way round this argument has been, though? Seems pretty clear to me that the position of some is that Kane is crap, a hindrance to the team and needs to be replaced. I don't think that's stretching the argument very much...
Right, because we're coming out of a bad tactical period that we all agree didn't help. But considering this is his first shit season to date, and last season he was the league's most valuable player in terms of goals and assists, I can't give you that he's in decline just because our points haul was.
But again that's not an indicator of Kane's quality or decline. It's an indictment of Jose and Nunoball.
And everyone agrees with that. But that's not the point you and Sammy having been going on about for 700 pages. That was about how shit he has become and how much better as a team we would be if we sold him.
I disagree. Without Kane's 23 goals and 14 assists last season, I think we can confidently state that we would have finished below 10th.
My opposition to you is when you claim Kane is in decline. He isn't. He was just made the target-man of a limited tactical approach, and performed excellently in that role just as he performed excellently under Poch's more varied system. If we can get our midfield and wingbacks contributing the way they used to, then Kane's own numbers will go up, just as they did under Poch, both from assists and also space he'll find when defenses are stretched.
Kane is not in decline, is my point, and we would be insane to sell him for anything less than a game-changing war chest, which isn't now going to happen. We'd be better off forgiving him getting his head turned, write off the past 6 months to experience, and getting behind him 100% to resume his world-class performance over the last 7 years.
Just my thoughts.
In fact, I'll go one further and say that Kane himself seems rejuvenated since Conte's appointment, and that his desire to leave in the summer to play for Guardiola was motivated by his own dissatisfaction at the club's trajectory. It's not his fault he was made the focal point of a limited system, and despite playing out of his skin our team finished, as you say, in our worst league position since 2008/09.
That had to be weighing on his mind, especially if one of the world's best coaches, managing one of the world's deepest and most diverse squads wants to take him on board.
Harry Kane himself doesn't want to play "Harry Kane Ball". Harry Kane the player wants to be part of a great team that can challenge for top honours. Now that we've got a coach who can steer us in that direction, I anticipate a much, much better second half to the season for our main striker.
That had to be weighing on his mind, especially if one of the world's best coaches, managing one of the world's deepest and most diverse squads wants to take him on board.
Harry Kane himself doesn't want to play "Harry Kane Ball". Harry Kane the player wants to be part of a great team that can challenge for top honours. Now that we've got a coach who can steer us in that direction, I anticipate a much, much better second half to the season for our main striker.
Good points. In one of my posts I wrote I didnt mind Kane taking many shots. I had the same logic as you which I forgot to add. Kane had no other choice as he was forced into taking many shots by the poorly designed system. Sometimes Son would share the duty but no question our attack was going through Kane for the most part. You can't blame him for it and he did made the best out of a less than idea system.
This point
KaneDomBadBoy
understands as well when he want's Spurs go go away from "Harry Kane Ball". I don't think he's blaming Kane personally for taking many shots rather the system. This isn't something he's disagreeing with.
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Wait
230 - 32 = 200?
Did you give him 2 goals for Christmas?
Merry Harry Kane World to all!!!
Yet:
"For a striker, it's all about goals. Even if you're working hard in other areas, you are judged by how many you score."
Gabby
"For a striker, it's all about goals. Even if you're working hard in other areas, you are judged by how many you score."
Gabby
Ronaldo:
20 goals in 32 finals
Won 23
Kane
0 Goals in 4 finals
Lost 4
“I’d rather have Kane in a final”
20 goals in 32 finals
Won 23
Kane
0 Goals in 4 finals
Lost 4
“I’d rather have Kane in a final”
(No Sammys are allowed to reply to this post).
Kane will score today. I feel it in my dick. I have a tingle.
Kane will score today. I feel it in my dick. I have a tingle.
Now do Vardy vs Kane in finals.Ronaldo:
20 goals in 32 finals
Won 23
Kane
0 Goals in 4 finals
Lost 4
“I’d rather have Kane in a final”
