There's a difference between a world class player and a world class team. Greece were european champions with a very mixed set of players. Norway climbed to 2nd in the Fifa-rankings in the 90s..
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It was all about Steffen Iversen.
I don't really know what "world class" means, but these are the players i can imagine seeing in a Champions League winning side* (based on their current form):
:defoe2:
*maybe not in the starting 11, but still having their share of playtime
*maybe not in the starting 11, but still having their share of playtime
I always liked how Kicker magazine in Germany publishes its lists. Twice a year they rank all the players in the Bundesliga over that half season and categorise them by position into three classes. The classes are very strict and it only goes on those performances so truly great players get left out if they haven't performed or were out for a length of time.
The three categories are:
Weltklasse
Internationale Klasse
Im weiteren Kreis (In another circle - great players who stand out, but don't quite lift themselves into the top categories)
Using this definition applied in the same way (i.e over the first half of the season, in a purely English football context) I'd say:
Weltklasse
None
Internationale Klasse
Hugo Lloris
Gareth Bale
Im weiteren Kreis
Jan Vertonghen
Sandro
Including all teams I'd only include two players in the Weltklasse: Robin van Persie and Sergio Aguero. Rooney would make a third but he's been injured too much to qualify.
I like this system because it rewards actual play rather than reputation, and because it limits hyperbole. If you have a list of 100 players and claim they are all world class then the term is meaningless. Cruyff was World Class. Maradona was World Class. Muller was World Class. Messi is World Class. Joe Cole is not World Class (although only the most deluded West Ham fan thinks that, and his name is Darren. He is a prick).
The three categories are:
Weltklasse
Internationale Klasse
Im weiteren Kreis (In another circle - great players who stand out, but don't quite lift themselves into the top categories)
Using this definition applied in the same way (i.e over the first half of the season, in a purely English football context) I'd say:
Weltklasse
None
Internationale Klasse
Hugo Lloris
Gareth Bale
Im weiteren Kreis
Jan Vertonghen
Sandro
Including all teams I'd only include two players in the Weltklasse: Robin van Persie and Sergio Aguero. Rooney would make a third but he's been injured too much to qualify.
I like this system because it rewards actual play rather than reputation, and because it limits hyperbole. If you have a list of 100 players and claim they are all world class then the term is meaningless. Cruyff was World Class. Maradona was World Class. Muller was World Class. Messi is World Class. Joe Cole is not World Class (although only the most deluded West Ham fan thinks that, and his name is Darren. He is a prick).
Neymar plays on the left often, so does Iniesta. Fabregas plays out wide also in Barca's fluid system, so classing wide left can include many world class players in my opinion.
I don't really know what "world class" means, but these are the players i can imagine seeing in a Champions League winning side* (based on their current form):
:defoe2:
*maybe not in the starting 11, but still having their share of playtime
I think Defoe is very generous. I'm not sure any worldclass side would want a striker that offers as little as Defoe besides an instinctive finish once every few games...
Including Lennon and Defoe in these lists is a tad naive. Although with this seasons form they have surpassed expectations, I imagine it would garner a similar response from non-spurs fans as if we saw a gooner website was doing this and they selected Walcott and Podolski. We'd laugh at them. Alot.
If by 'WORLD' class, it means a player who could walk into any team in the WORLD tomorrow, then I'd say Bale and that's it.
WORLD class as in historically (into which you must include the likes of Cryuff/Pele/Maradona/Puskas/Doherty, just checking!) then Bale wouldn't get a sniff...
The Premier League probably only has a smattering of WORLD class talent, and more than likely, they all play in Manchester... however, I do firmly believe we have one of the classiest SQUADS for a long time, and that's not just 'Spurs News' talk!!
Agreed, it would've been that much classier had Modric & VdV stayed, but we're not as much of a one-man team as I'd thought we once were... (though our form during Dembele's absence did it's best to prove my theory total bunkum!)
WORLD class as in historically (into which you must include the likes of Cryuff/Pele/Maradona/Puskas/Doherty, just checking!) then Bale wouldn't get a sniff...
The Premier League probably only has a smattering of WORLD class talent, and more than likely, they all play in Manchester... however, I do firmly believe we have one of the classiest SQUADS for a long time, and that's not just 'Spurs News' talk!!
Agreed, it would've been that much classier had Modric & VdV stayed, but we're not as much of a one-man team as I'd thought we once were... (though our form during Dembele's absence did it's best to prove my theory total bunkum!)
I'm pretty loose in my interpretation of world class, only because most definitions don't allow for many players at all. Legendary is my top status and that's reserved for the likes of Messi, Ronaldo... and Ledley of course.
In terms of world class, I think of it as more like a top 100 in the world, across all positions. I think that Bale and Lloris get in there. If Lloris can emulate his performances in Ligue 1, then he'll be the best keeper in the Prem by a chalk imo.
In terms of world class, I think of it as more like a top 100 in the world, across all positions. I think that Bale and Lloris get in there. If Lloris can emulate his performances in Ligue 1, then he'll be the best keeper in the Prem by a chalk imo.
World Class can't be limited to a number of players in their respective position. If you go back fifteen/twenty years then I can happily reel off the Milan defence alone as all being world class. That is ignoring Thuram, Nesta, Canavarro. That is ignoring Stam, Blanc, Dessailly, Koeman, Kholler.....
In midfield, how can you limit the number of world class players? Sometimes there are just a lot of exceptional players, to chose one over the other is based on a toss of the coin.
Do we have any players who would get into any squad in the world? Yes, Bale and Lloris would do. I can't imagine a single club saying no to either of those players. That said, there are plenty of players in their position who are fantastic, too.
I'm just grateful that we have players who are competitive in this kind of conversation, and more to come.
In midfield, how can you limit the number of world class players? Sometimes there are just a lot of exceptional players, to chose one over the other is based on a toss of the coin.
Do we have any players who would get into any squad in the world? Yes, Bale and Lloris would do. I can't imagine a single club saying no to either of those players. That said, there are plenty of players in their position who are fantastic, too.
I'm just grateful that we have players who are competitive in this kind of conversation, and more to come.
For me, :balelol: &
Dembele, Sandro, Vertonghen & Jenas all come close, though.
What do you guys reckon?
None. And King is the only one that springs to mind over the last couple of decades.
Even then was he "truly world class" when only Spurs fans recognised it?
Agree Dannyboy. WC to me is when you have reached a level where you are able to do things that the best of your peers cannot do. Practically nobody can do what Bale does, that's a fact. If you look at Dembeles dribbling ability, with more honing and a better final ball, he could step up towards that level. There are not many people in the world that can consistently use a trick to leave a player behnind from a stand still, practically every time he attempts it and not rely on pace.
Berbatov was world class.
But the quanitfier for that is "when he could be bothered", meaning he wasn't truly world class. An amazing, dazzlingly talented player, but not world class.
Which is very interesting, because last season we all thought Modric was world class and on this basis he very much isn't....
:modricwtf:
Klinsmann Ill give you, to my eternal shame I didnt think of him.
The other two? No.
They both had/have potential for it but never/havent yet made it there IMO, and there is no saying whether they will or not.
This is where I disagree on the meaning of world class. World class means just that, one of the best in the world. I reserve my top plaudits for Legend status, which neither of them are and I don't think Rafa can achieve now.
I was going to say, this ends up becoming an argument about the nuances of ones personal defenition of "World Class".
For me its being that bloody good you can do everything the position demands, consistently, and better than near anyone else. Perhaps thats closer to your "legend" status.
Bale borders on this in some ways, but he doesnt do it consistently.
Modric had WC aspects to his game, but not the complete package for the role IMO.
VDV probably the same.
