Is Poch a victim of his own success?

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Rodger

Beyond Evelebty!
Pochettino, like our players is a victim of adulation before actual achievement.

Result - complacency and at times undeserved belief.
I suppose it depends what you mean by 'actual achievement'. If you mean trophies, then of course you're right.
On the other hand, if you mean exciting, enjoyable, entertaining, watchable football, week on week, over a period of years, or an injection of immense pride into the club, then I'd have to disagree.
Trophies are massively important, but they're not everything.

That said, WE MUST WIN THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE - then his place will be cemented into the club's history.
 
I suppose it depends what you mean by 'actual achievement'. If you mean trophies, then of course you're right.
On the other hand, if you mean exciting, enjoyable, entertaining, watchable football, week on week, over a period of years, or an injection of immense pride into the club, then I'd have to disagree.
Trophies are massively important, but they're not everything.

That said, WE MUST WIN THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE - then his place will be cemented into the club's history.

Get top 4 this season and get to the final and all the pain would have been worth it.

Get one and lets see.

Get neither and reaĺly big decisions lay ahead.

And yes, we have had a super 4 years but with nothing tangible to show for it.
 
Get top 4 this season and get to the final and all the pain would have been worth it.

Get one and lets see.

Get neither and reaĺly big decisions lay ahead.

And yes, we have had a super 4 years but with nothing tangible to show for it.

Nothing tangible for the fans100's millions of pounds of increased revenue and profit for the board.
 

WookieD

wharrgarbl 💫
Nothing tangible for the fans100's millions of pounds of increased revenue and profit for the board.
So that fucking great big stadium I’ve been going to since April isn’t tangible? Cramming St.Totteringham’s day down Gooner throats isn’t tangible? Having CL nights midweek isn’t tangible? Actually feeling pride to support my club after years of feeling like it was a laughing stock isn’t tangible?

Blimey, the entitlement.
 

Joan Thomas

Proper Spurs
Fucking Benitez. Wow. If Poch left (we'd be insane to give him the boot) then Nuno might be a great idea but I expect Poch to stay and rebuild.
Benitez has also, like Poch, spent the last 2 seaosons publicly begging his boss for more investment.
So although I can see the similarities, theres no way I see him taking the Spurs job.
 

Totti

⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐
Not an urban myth, but it hasn't clicked very often this season, for all sorts of reasons - yet currently and amazingly we're still 3rd!

Probably a mixture of a thousand injuries and a change in formation.

We've played some excellent football at times this season but it's few and far between. Everton for example when we had Kane, Son, Eriksen, Dele and Winks on the pitch at the same time.

Having those five on the pitch at the same time has been a rare occurrence due to injuries to some of them at times this season.
 
One thing to consider, for all you trigger happy ‘realists’. If Poch goes, Kane will follow him soon after. As will Son. They play for him more than anything else.

So if you’re up for starting from scratch, go for it.
 
Anyway, my opinion is no, he can win us the league.

But he needs to stop fucking about with the back 4, get our full backs sorted and enjoy an injury free season.
 

Totti

⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐
One thing to consider, for all you trigger happy ‘realists’. If Poch goes, Kane will follow him soon after. As will Son. They play for him more than anything else.

So if you’re up for starting from scratch, go for it.

Good point.

90% confident if Poch goes, our key players will follow.

Then again, our key players have all got the same treatment this season that Poch is getting now.

"Eriksen should be sold"
"Dele is not good enough"
"We're better without Kane"

etc. etc. etc.

So maybe fans do know best
 

Rodger

Beyond Evelebty!
There's been a nagging thought in my mind all season (and a bit before that, tbh). Is the 'Pochettino way' a busted flush? The weaker teams we play against have got wise to Poch's style of play and set themselves up accordingly, frustrating us, which they seem to be doing more and more successfully.
He needs to introduce not only new blood, but also new tactics. Is he able to do that? I'd say he is (irrational belief to the fore again).
 
So that fucking great big stadium I’ve been going to since April isn’t tangible? Cramming St.Totteringham’s day down Gooner throats isn’t tangible? Having CL nights midweek isn’t tangible? Actually feeling pride to support my club after years of feeling like it was a laughing stock isn’t tangible?

Blimey, the entitlement.

St totteringsday is a load of shit finishing above Tottenham shouldn't be the be all and end all and vice versa

Stadiums great progress is great but we need to win something instead of posting world record profits, we'll get the clearest indication yet this summer as to why Enic are in this.
 

Incomplete_usernam

To dare is too dear
I think getting to the semi of the CL with that VAR decision (which without that decision would have resulted in ANOTHER late collapse in an important game) has masked over the fact that we have had a terrible end to this season.

We could have been completely out of contention for the CL final if Ajax would have taken their chances in that first 20 mins as well, we were utterly inept and toothless, thankfully Sissoko came on and saved our blushes.

I wasn't even aware of how bad it actually was until yesterday, 10 points in our last 11 games in the league, that is, like someone else said, relegation form, imagine if we started the season that way?

I feel bad for Poch tbh, injuries and terrible squad investment along with fatigue because of that lack of squad investment has left him in a vulnerable position now despite us actually not being in a bad position currently.

I don't think anybody can argue that we have regressed though despite being in the CL semi and top 3, our points tally per season from two seasons ago has dropped by over 10+ points and our style of play has also regressed so yeah, not sure what to make of it all tbh.
 
I don't buy the argument that we are ahead of schedule in our achievement being a top 4 club an all that. Part of that success was the hard work of Poch and the player but the other part was the collapse of the top 4 clubs such as manu, chelski and woolwich.
 

Totti

⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐
There's been a nagging thought in my mind all season (and a bit before that, tbh). Is the 'Pochettino way' a busted flush? The weaker teams we play against have got wise to Poch's style of play and set themselves up accordingly, frustrating us, which they seem to be doing more and more successfully.
He needs to introduce not only new blood, but also new tactics. Is he able to do that? I'd say he is (irrational belief to the fore again).

The Pochettino way was always play with your full backs providing width and fearless aggression and pressing cleverly from the front.

Just go and look at the 16/17 season - why didn't teams just sit back against us and try and stifle us, especially at White Hart Lane? Because they couldn't. Teams tried to and we just blitzed them with pace, power and starting games fast.

We don't have that power and pace on the flanks anymore, which slows down our entire play. Because Trippier (or Aurier) instead of taking on their man or giving the opposing full back something to think about, tend to get the ball and either aimlessly cross it, which usually ends with us losing possession, or pass it centrally which then again slows down our attacking play and allows the opponents to regroup or get back into a defensive shape.

In 2016/17 we had:
- Two aggressively quick and powerful full backs (Walker and Rose)
- Aridiculously solid central defensive pairing with no expensive back ups (Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Dier, Wimmer)
- One of the best performing defensive midfielders in the league (Wanyama)
- Smeone who helped control our midfield through strength and the ability to not lose the ball (Dembele)
- A goalscoring second striker (Dele)
- A creative midfielder (Eriksen)
- Two great goalscorers (Kane and Son)

Fast forward this season and we have:
- Lopsided full backs (Trippier and Rose)
- A solid central defensive pairing disrupted by one of our most expensive signings (Alderwiereld, Vertonghen, Sanchez)
- No true defensive midfielder to shield them due to injury (Wanyama, Dier)
- A player who aims to help controlling our midfield through possession and recyling as opposed to strength and ability to not lose the ball (Winks)
- Dele deeper and no longer a second striker due to Son and Kane and Lucas being our main attacking threats.


Add in to the fact we tended to play 4231 and 3421 in 16/17 and this season we've usually played 352 or 41212 diamond.

We don't have the personnel to really play 4231 as we don't have a Dembele in there to hold it together and I feel Sissoko hasn't got the discipline to play in a midfield 2 and then we come back to the fact we haven't really got a fit defensive midfielder (or a good one anymore) to play alongside. Winks and prime Wanyama would have been perfect, but we haven't got prime Wanyama and Winks has been injured.

And whilst we DO have the personnel for a 3421, I feel like Sanchez isn't best suited to a back three which again puts us in a predicament where we've signed a £40,000,000 centre half who at the time wasn't anywhere near as good as our current centre halves and 2 years on, still isn't anywhere near as good.

The summer is a huge one - because if Poch is going to stick with some of the formations he's played this season he must realise we simply haven't got the players to play them successfully so needs to build a new team to suit them.
 
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