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Transfers January 2020 transfer thread

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Even though he’s not a proper DM/6, if he is the only real talent available then we have to go all out for Soumare.

It can’t hurt to have a battling box to box CM that can fill in at 6 for now then just go shopping in the summer and push him forward afterwards. With eriksen, wanyama and hopefully dier leaving (Also our CM injury record) it’s a no brainer.

We have links to Lille now surely we need to make this happen.

please Daniel:dier:

I think if he was a bargain, say 20-25m, that might be worth a punt, but the sort of money being quoted, 50-60m, I'm not so sure.

I've watched as much as I can of Soumare, quite a few whole games, I'm really not sure he's a busy enough fucker and I don't think his football is routinely as good as it looks in some YouTubes. Like Ndidi for example, who's not brilliant with the ball but is fucking evreywhere when Leicester don't have the ball. As a DM he'd be an upgrade on Sissoko and Dier maybe, but I don't think that's saying loads.

I don't dislike Soumare, but and if we were playing CM3, he'd be fine as the 6. But in CM2's, which we are playing, I'd like a bit more for 50-60m.

If we are going to spend some money, and still be taking a punt on a young player, I would much rather go balls deep on Camavinga, this kid's got it all and is going to be the real deal IMO, tenacious, dynamic, gets his foot in and can play football.

A player who'd cost about a third of Soumare is Sangare at Toulouse, I've always cautioned against him on the basis that his game - passing wise - is still error prone, but they (errors) are reducing and this kid has a big heart, in a struggling side he never hides, is a tall rangy type, gets through more ball than Soumare, and uses it quite well, can move with the ball, can see a pass, averages more tackles and interceptions than Soumare too. I'm still not sure he's ready for Top6 PL level though. But for 20m, instead of 50m ? One of the reasons he makes errors is because he will try things, a take on in a deeper area, a risky pass, and he needs to polish that out of his game, if he can I think his ceiling could well be higher than Soumare's.

If we are looking for real DM bargains, and I mean real bargains, like 5m tops, there are a couple of players at Metz - Habib Maiga (23) and Mamadou Fofana that might be worth scouting, I've not seen enough of them but Maiga seems to be a right busy fucker who can play some football.

Another player - as a more pure 6/DM - who's stayed on my radar since we were first linked a few years back is Pape Cheikh, still only 22, has now gone back to Celta Vigo, another one of those tall rangy DM's but I think he showed promise on loan at Lyon last year, but the new Brazilian DOF Juninho wanted to bring in his own players instead of making Cheikh's loan permanent, so he's gone back and I think has started to get more starts in the last couple of months. Would cost no more than 10m.

Marseille have three interesting CM's. The 20yo Boubacar Kamara emerging as a CB who can also play 6, 22yo Maxi Lopez 6/8 tenacious, works hard, but good little footballer, 25yo Valentine Rongier, more 8 type who's is tenacious though, works and can play a bit of football. I need to see more of Rongier to figure him out, but Kamara (who I mentioned last year when he emerged playing CB as an 18/19yo) is now playing the as a 6/DM too, this kid looks to have a bright future.

Been a long term admirer of Aouar at Lyon, but he's more pure 8. Tousart (22yo) is a decent young DM, busy little fucker, ok footballing wise, nothing special.
 
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Like Ndidi for example, who's not brilliant with the ball but is fucking evreywhere when Leicester don't have the ball. As a DM he'd be an upgrade on Sissoko and Dier maybe, but I don't think that's saying loads.
I think you underrate him BC. There's more than 1 way to skin a cat. A player need not be running around like his hairs on fire to man the DM position. You're taking 1 archetype and making it the sine quo non of the position. There is something to be said about the Ndidi-type but they don't usually come in the footballing type. Attacks can be shutdown via positioning and anticipation. Most of the best interventions are the ones against the attacks that don't happen ie the Busquets type.

Soumare is a major footballing upgrade on anything we have and is still only 20. I do agree with you that 50M is absurd as he has not shown remotely to the level of Ndomble in that league. Anymore than 30-35 (in Jan) and they've seen us coming.

I would much rather go balls deep on Camavinga
👀

A player who'd cost about a third of Soumare is Sangare at Toulouse,
they won't need him anymore where their going.

Another player - as a more pure 6/DM - who's stayed on my radar since we were first linked a few years back is Pape Cheikh, still only 22, has now gone back to Celta Vigo, another one of those tall rangy DM's but I think he showed promise on loan at Lyon last year,
Not seen any Celta this year so don't know how he's getting on but he was perm at Lyon for 2 years. But he's no chump with the ball either and pretty damn busy, or at least was.
 
I think you underrate him BC. There's more than 1 way to skin a cat. A player need not be running around like his hairs on fire to man the DM position. You're taking 1 archetype and making it the sine quo non of the position. There is something to be said about the Ndidi-type but they don't usually come in the footballing type. Attacks can be shutdown via positioning and anticipation. Most of the best interventions are the ones against the attacks that don't happen ie the Busquets type.

Soumare is a major footballing upgrade on anything we have and is still only 20. I do agree with you that 50M is absurd as he has not shown remotely to the level of Ndomble in that league. Anymore than 30-35 (in Jan) and they've seen us coming.

I know CM's come in a variety of species. First few looks I really liked, but he was a relatively unknown 20yo showing promise, he was Lille's best player away at Toulouse for example, put a real shift in, but as soon as they started linking us with him, and talking about 50-60m, I maybe started looking at him a bit more forensically. I said he'd be an upgrade on Sissoko and Dier as midfield "muscle" but for 50-60m he is definitely not Busquets "read the game" smart or ever going to be. So I'd at least want the defensive side of his game to be top notch. I've seen a couple of games where he's been pretty poor without the ball - Monaco away being a recent one.

At this stage, at best, I think at best we'd be getting an embryonic Wanyama. Not a terrible thing, especially if we were to put him next to two good 8's like Ndombele who'll do the progressive stuff, but for 50-60m I'd want a player who's at least as defensively rapacious and dynamic as Wanyama, and I'm not sure Soumare is.

But I've always maintained at 20 - and having his first full season - there's still plenty of scope in him and coaching the can improve him. Would I rather watch him or Sissoko/Dier - I'll take him all day long - but for 50-60m I'd want to be fucking sure we are getting at least a player defensively dynamic.


Camavinga on the other hand is three years younger and already putting in more rounded and dynamic performances, with and without the ball. If we are going to spend 50-60m, I think that would be "big" money better spent.
 
What needs? We need a DM and he's most certainly not a DM...and a bit of a prick it seems. And yet you have issues with The Dong. BTW it's Chewy and The Dong vs Soumare this weekend. Ramp up your betamax BC so you can commit this to the archives.

Some vastly inferior footballing intellect once told me there was "more than one way to skin a cat". We don't just need a pure DM, we need a whole new midfield, especially if we aren't going to use Lo Celso as one and we are going to play double pivots more often. People seem to forget Rabiot was an outstanding young 6/8 type, physically strong, good brain, tenacious, hard working and could also play football. His contract situation saw his career stall for a season, and then he's maybe made a bad choice of club - for the right reason (a 433 playing Juve should have been made for him) - there's absolutely no evidence he's a problem that Ive heard while he was in France - just the noise around his mum being his agent.

He'd fit Mourinho's model - big but mobile, can get a foot in but can also play football.

There will be games where we'd want to pair a pure 6 with someone like Ndombele, but there are plenty of games where Rabiot and Ndombele would be strong enough whithout having to sacrifice the "football".
 
But I've always maintained at 20 - and having his first full season - there's still plenty of scope in him and coaching the can improve him.
this would be my hope and expectation but those things shouldn't have to come with a 50M outlay.

Would I rather watch him or Sissoko/Dier - I'll take him all day long - but for 50-60m I'd want to be fucking sure we are getting at least a player defensively dynamic.
I would expect it the other way around. Pretty sure it would be easier and cheaper to find the athlete that would need footballing help than the footballer that needed to be told to run around a bit. I know of a player with both that wouldn't cost more than 10M and has PL experience.

Camavinga on the other hand is three years younger and already putting in more rounded and dynamic performances, with and without the ball. If we are going to spend 50-60m, I think that would be "big" money better spent.
Yeah, only seen the game against Lyon (and not all of it) and he is not my favorite person.

but the bigger thing is we need a stable of MFers BC. Not 1 player or 2 players. We need 4 more MFers so it's not just about 1 of these guys. Everyone that is currently in the MF and hasn't been brought in this season is not good enough or will not be with us going forward. So we need 4 more MFers and shouldn't just be focused on 1 big buy.
 
Some vastly inferior footballing intellect once told me there was "more than one way to skin a cat".
Yeah, but I'm sure he had youth and beauty on his side. :sonpoint::dembelefingers:

We don't just need a pure DM, we need a whole new midfield, especially if we aren't going to use Lo Celso as one and we are going to play double pivots more often. People seem to forget Rabiot was an outstanding young 6/8 type, physically strong, good brain, tenacious, hard working and could also play football.
And yet you got problems with The Dong? Yes, at least you see the bigger MF problem. We need a stable of MFers. Poch didn't respect the MF as any reasonable person should. You can't just plug and play any old clogger there. But I've got my doubts about rabiot in the PL jsut like I had my doubts about Pogba in the PL. And Rabiot's first touch isn't to space either. I think he would get pressed to death. I've seen it at PSG and we did it to him in the preseason. He's slow on the ball.

for the right reason (a 433 playing Juve should have been made for him) - there's absolutely no evidence he's a problem that Ive heard while he was in France - just the noise around his mum being his agent.
And The Dong was cleared in court yet you pushed that as a complaint.

He'd fit Mourinho's model - big but mobile, can get a foot in but can also play football.

There will be games where we'd want to pair a pure 6 with someone like Ndombele, but there are plenty of games where Rabiot and Ndombele would be strong enough whithout having to sacrifice the "football".
I'd take Soumare before him. Not at 50M though.
 
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