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Transfers January 2020 transfer thread

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BF3 said:
Poch had a pretty abhorrent record of identifying talent. He also brought one player through the youth academy is 5 years (Winks). Almost the entire core of Poch’s best team (2015-2018) consisted of players that were at Spurs prior to his first match.

Managers should be part of the conversation, clearly, but they should be more concerned with results than scouting the Continent for talent. They can’t dedicate the time needed and they don’t always have the long term vision needed.
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Can you name 1 academy player we lost in that time that's gone on to achieve anything of note elsewhere?
He may have polished turds into champions league material for half a decade but he can't turn outright shite into worldbeaters.
He was the manager of one of the richest clubs in Europe, not a fucking P.E teacher
 
VoiceOfThePoshSeats said:
Agree with this
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See, the point I'm making is not really about amount of money....

De Jong (declined the chance to come here - Player himself stated this!)
Grealish (taken off the market on the brink of us reaching a circa 25m deal)
Van Der Beak (allegedly available for 15m)
Tielemans (loan)
Ndombele (pre-Lyon 8m) - (Listed just for funzies)
Lo Celso (pre-Betis 22m) - (Ditto)

....Despite funds being available, we ended up with no-one.

I'm open to considered theories as to why.

....."Wah, Levy" is all a bit piss poor really.
 
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Park Lane Mark Twain said:
Profit/ (Loss) since ENIC took over (£000)

112,953 - 2018
36,185 - 2017
33,037 - 2016
9,396 - 2015
65,261 - 2014
1,528 - 2013
(4,283) - 2012
669 - 2011
(6,647) - 2010
23,164 - 2009
969 - 2008
19,158 - 2007
(1,575) - 2006
4,104 - 2005
(2,692) - 2004
(6,425) - 2003
467 - 2002
(2,495) - 2001
-------------------------
£282,774,000 2001-2018

6 out of 18 seasons we've made a loss, 3 of those we didn't post profits higher than £1m, a further 3 of those we posted profits that didn't break £10m and a further 2 of those we didn't break the £25m ceiling.

In total 14 out of 18 years under ENIC we never posted anything higher than £25m. Take away last seasons figures, a genuinely huge one compared to anything we've experienced and we are on £169,821,000 retained over a near on two decade spell. Divide that across the 17 seasons accumulated and we post an average profit of £9.98m a season. Last seasons numbers and this seasons forecasted seriously skew the consistent pattern of money under ENIC. Take away the Champions League seasons and the Bale money and the club pretty much retains next to nothing (without the 2018,2017,2016 & 2014 numbers we average a retained profit of £2.52m per season across 14 seasons).

We are forecasted to post record revenue numbers so I assume we'll probably post a further £150m in profit so realistically we are sitting on about £432,774 of profit now but that won't include transfers made after 30 June 2019 which I think most were.

The last time there was a big TV deal paid out across PL teams we hardly spent. We,let others blow their money and sat on ours until the market simmered down. Levy and ENIC have previous doing so and whilst we are a money cautious team, we definitely don't sit on it as much as people believe. 2001-2017 we averaged £10m profit retained, (a Jack Clarke signing each season basically)
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Letting others blow their money whilst we sit on our pot has hardly brought us in contention for anything and yet now we are even further behind so where is the logic here.
 
Can we not just get Luis Campos considering Jose has said he would welcome the chance to work with him? Surely shouldn’t be too hard for a club of our size to get the DoF from Lille regardless of the financial implications for them.

He’s found and flipped Mbappe, Bernardo Silva, Martial, Pepe etc and soon to do the same with Soumare.

He would be the vital link between keeping someone who wants top talent to manage happy as well as a chairman who wants to be self sustaining.

Absolute no brainer.
 
Spursidol said:
Just to add to that though

Incidentally after the TW you may recall that Poch gave a very pointed interview in which he accused Wanyama of treating Spurs as a charity - but no further detail given.

I am guessing that Wanyama wanted a pot load of money paid to him (eg as he had not played much he would not have earned any/many match day appearances, but feltt he should have been paid more) and was told no, he hadn't earned them.

So if that was the reason Wanyama turned down the deal at Bruges he's a fool. He would have earned much more at Bruges than by staying at Spurs and not playing.
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Yeah it's a shame it's got to where it has. He doesn't seem at all bothered about playing football anymore.
 
John Thomas said:
Can you name 1 academy player we lost in that time that's gone on to achieve anything of note elsewhere?
He may have polished turds into champions league material for half a decade but he can't turn outright shite into worldbeaters.
He was the manager of one of the richest clubs in Europe, not a fucking P.E teacher
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Are you suggesting that Poch didn’t mishandle academy product? His demands/policies stagnated the development of several key players thought to have potential by not allowing loans or identifying talent and then integrating them into the squad.

He favored CCV over Tanganga, refused to loan out or play KWP for 2 seasons, played Onomah out of position, feuded with Edwards, rightly or wrongly, who at 21 looks like it’s clicking. Many of our other academy products (Skipp, Amos, Roles) have languished rather than be loaned out to get minutes. Obviously these aren’t all going to be first team players, but better academy management would certainly have helped the current squad.

He certainly maximized the potential of the first team for 3 seasons, no one disputes that, but that’s his job - to focus on the on-field performance. Everything else outside of that he doesn’t seem to have the talent for.
 
skywalker68 said:
Letting others blow their money whilst we sit on our pot has hardly brought us in contention for anything and yet now we are even further behind so where is the logic here.
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The logic is to turn the sudden spike in value for players when money is pumped in through TV deals to deflate in price. Players like Sigurdsson were costing £45m, Richarlison went for a £50m deal, players like Lucas Moura cost £23m. It's the same reason people do their shopping in the January sales, you can get a lot more for your money hence why we are where we are financially and in the league over the last few seasons and Everton are where Everton are financially and in the league over the last few seasons.

It comes with risk yes, sometimes you miss out on the top players but this is the approach we took and it's secured us 4 seasons of Champipns League football, 2nd and 3rd place finishes, semi finals and a Champions League final whilst Everton are all over the shop financially, being investigated and have 1 seasons worth of Europa League football to show for it. Spending money doesn't guarantee success but of course it helps.

Switzerland businesses for example let other countries try out new technologies etc and whilst they lost first mover advantages, they also doing ruin themselves pumping a shit load of money into a trendy tech fad. They wait, let others boom and fail at the same time and then go about their business. Not ideal but it makes them a very wealthy and secure country. If we do the same to amount money to eventually get us on par with the big boys and it's not just use don't to line the pockets of the owners I'm all for that for a certain duration of time.
 
Five said:
www.dailymail.co.uk

Anfield's steps to domination: Putting the right man in charge

Liverpool have waited 30 years to lift the Premier League and now they are on the brink of finally doing so. Not to mention, three trophies in 2019 including their sixth European Cup by beating Tottenham.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

Signing smart by understanding big data
English football mocked when Henry and Werner talked enthusiastically about how baseball had been transformed by Billy Beane's Moneyball and a new wave of perplexing stats, and how, in 2004, it helped them end the 86 years without a World Series at the Red Sox.

Most saw them as naïve owners about to be fleeced by an idea that made for a great Hollywood movie but wouldn't fit English football. Liverpool hired Ian Graham, a Cambridge University physics PhD, from Spurs and Michael Edwards, also from Tottenham, just as Gordon took over.

Former sporting director Damien Comolli, who had worked with them, said they were the best in what was then a niche activity. Graham writes his own statistical metrics to outperform rivals.

Edwards applies the analysis to a wider canvas. The headline successes are Philippe Coutinho, signed for £8.5million and sold for £142m — enabling the signings of Virgil van Dijk and Allison — and taking a chance on Chelsea reject Mo Salah for £34m in 2017.

But Graham's favourite signing is Andy Robertson for £8m, who was part of the worst defence in the Premier League at Hull City but is now in UEFA's team of the year. Gordon identified Graham and Edwards's talent, empowered them and promoted them. Graham is director of research and Edwards is sporting director.
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Really think this needs highlighting.

Liverpool hired Ian Graham, a Cambridge University physics PhD, from Spurs and Michael Edwards, also from Tottenham, just as Gordon took over.

Former sporting director Damien Comolli, who had worked with them, said they were the best in what was then a niche activity. Graham writes his own statistical metrics to outperform rivals.

Edwards applies the analysis to a wider canvas. The headline successes are Philippe Coutinho, signed for £8.5million and sold for £142m — enabling the signings of Virgil van Dijk and Allison — and taking a chance on Chelsea reject Mo Salah for £34m in 2017.

But Graham's favourite signing is Andy Robertson for £8m, who was part of the worst defence in the Premier League at Hull City but is now in UEFA's team of the year. Gordon identified Graham and Edwards's talent, empowered them and promoted them. Graham is director of research and Edwards is sporting director.


Worth pointing out that Levy hired these guys. Various managers since have demanded they control transfers and refused to have a DoF

Time Levy insists a DoF is here to stay
 
Park Lane Mark Twain said:
The logic is to turn the sudden spike in value for players when money is pumped in through TV deals to deflate in price. Players like Sigurdsson were costing £45m, Richarlison went for a £50m deal, players like Lucas Moura cost £23m. It's the same reason people do their shopping in the January sales, you can get a lot more for your money hence why we are where we are financially and in the league over the last few seasons and Everton are where Everton are financially and in the league over the last few seasons.

It comes with risk yes, sometimes you miss out on the top players but this is the approach we took and it's secured us 4 seasons of Champipns League football, 2nd and 3rd place finishes, semi finals and a Champions League final whilst Everton are all over the shop financially, being investigated and have 1 seasons worth of Europa League football to show for it. Spending money doesn't guarantee success but of course it helps.

Switzerland businesses for example let other countries try out new technologies etc and whilst they lost first mover advantages, they also doing ruin themselves pumping a shit load of money into a trendy tech fad. They wait, let others boom and fail at the same time and then go about their business. Not ideal but it makes them a very wealthy and secure country.
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Of course money doesn't guarantee anything but it certainly increases your chances hence why clubs who spend generally are the most successful.
But let's be honest our low risk approach has brought us nothing not one pot in recent years so does the club continue on this path which I suspect it will, or does it actually fully back one of the best managers in the modern game to give him a chance of success.
 
Park Lane Mark Twain said:
It comes with risk yes, sometimes you miss out on the top players but this is the approach we took and it's secured us 4 seasons of Champipns League football, 2nd and 3rd place finishes, semi finals and a Champions League final whilst Everton are all over the shop financially, being investigated and have 1 seasons worth of Europa League football to show for it. Spending money doesn't guarantee success but of course it helps.
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Park Lane Mark Twain said:
Profit/ (Loss) since ENIC took over (£000)

(1,575) - 2006
4,104 - 2005
(2,692) - 2004
(6,425) - 2003
467 - 2002
(2,495) - 2001
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Click to shrink...


It took ENIC some time and some money down the toilet to figure things out as well.

Everton will do what every club will do over the long haul: perform in line with their wage bill.
 
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