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Transfers January 2022 - Transfer Window

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It's easy with hindsight to criticise the value aspect of Ndombele and Lo Celso, but I've actually got less issue with those deals - as/when we did them - because they at least came with some huge potential to be massive upgrades and advance us as a team. Which was exactly what we needed. Not more humdrum.

Not a matter of hindsight, just an honest appraisal of how much a of waste of money they've proved.

As for the other stuff.... If we got a 15m player for the 15m we spent I don't see how one can complain justifiably that PEH was a bust.

He wasn't/isn't.

If only we got what we paid for in regard to the other 2 eh.... We might not have floundered around 6/7th for the last 3 years.

Blaming PEH (and Sissoko previously) for our decline; whilst absolving the far more expensive duds of any blame is simply bogus.
 
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I think we have bigger problems in our squad than him TBH.
Generally agree. Kind of.

I think it's been a huge distraction and disruption for our 2 most expensive signings, (Ndombele + Lo Celso) who are now playing under their 5th manager in 3+ years.

PEH seems to be the safe, vanilla selection, but I fail to see how him being our PL minutes leader is a good thing, particularly after having just finished in our lowest table position in a few seasons.

In theory he's a good squad player... just not sure he's been good enough (or is important enough) to have warranted stunting/annoying Ndombele and Lo Celso. If that's what's actually happened/been happening.
You could also argue that we're currently better with him than without him.
100%. Absolutely agree this is a legitimate argument to be made.
I'm not a fanboi, but I'm also not unreasonable. He's not stealing a wage and he wasn't a waste of money.

He's doubled his wages (£2.6M/yr >>> £5.3M/yr) moving from So'ton to Spurs and is presently our 4th highest on our payroll per:


None of our managers have used him in what is (IMO) his best usage, which is a high-pressing/fore-checking #8 CM à la N'Golo Kanté. (Kanté is one of the most influential players of the past decade -- PEH is obviously not at his level), but sic him on the opponents for 60-70 minutes until he's knackered.
 
To be honest, as crazy as this sounds, I still had some feint hopes that both Ndombele and LoCelso might have a slim chance of coming good under Conte, but only if he switches to a 3 man midfield 352 and uses them as 8's off a right busy cunt. There's form for this with Conte. everyone wrote Eriksen off last year, but he managed to integrate him and win the league. The system he played at Inter worked well, he also got the best out of Pogba at Juve - who many think is a lazy feckless wanker. Fabregas at Chelsea.

But if he wants to continue playing CM2's in a 343 then I just don't see it happening - even if there's any realistic chance at all left anyway (which I accept there might not be - maybe all parties - club, coach and players have all decided to move on). In which case fair fucks. but in a CM2/343 neither will really fit or thrive so it would become moot.

It doesn't sound crazy; it just re-affirms you have a blind spot for what both of them fail to bring to the table.....

Sadly the occacional nice touch or pass doesn't cut it our league and there'in lies the flaw with the 'plays nicer football' stuff you were chatting about Betis too.
 
Generally agree. Kind of.

I think it's been a huge distraction and disruption for our 2 most expensive signings, (Ndombele + Lo Celso) who are now playing under their 5th manager in 3+ years.

PEH makes GLC & TN shit...... If only 4 different managers weren't blind to that.

Yeh, bruv..... Keep telling yourself that. :contethumb:

In theory he's a good squad player... just not sure he's been good enough (or is important enough) to have warranted stunting/annoying Ndombele and Lo Celso. If that's what's actually happened/been happening.

That isn't what's been happening, but you've got your eyes tightly clamped shut to the reality and are bathing in weak excuses instead.
 
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That's not what "reality" means.

You're merely making a projection.

Only you are toying with hindsight here, my friend.

Fact: TN & GLC have failed to establish themselves in this team under five different managers.

Right, so you're not trading in "reality" afterall.... This is merely a theory of yours.

I put it to you that considering your'e not proposing a like for like replacement (i.e. PEH / Bale) that you're essentially proposing a major revamp of all our line-ups over the course of a season and to make staunch claims over what is rapidly becoming a pure fantasy scenario isn't a particularly realistic hill to choose to die on.

At this point your continued insistence that a player's performance, application, fitness, mentality and work-rate has no bearing over their destiny at a club frankly doesn't dignify further serious discussion.

This has all been done to death..... (Go visit the Ndombele thread for a refresher.... Former managers confirming he has a dubious attitude.... Him expressing a desire to leave at least 3 times since he arrived... Him being visibly gassed after 45minutes etc etc. etc..... The evidence has mounted beyond mere unconscious bias.)

Not one, not two..... But 5 managers..... And more before he arrived here......

M-a-a-a-a-aa-y-b-e you're the one suffering from "bias" here, rather than the many proffesionals that actually work with him.

Gio.... Perhaps a different mind-set, but ultimately a very similar outcome; a meager contribution that falls way short of what is a) required and b) was expected.

Ultimately, I don't give a shit about PEHs G&A ratios.... Unlike GLC, he's not in the team with an expectancy to score and assist (in fact his entire first year was being played as a DM!). It's just a stinging indictment of Gio's lack of contribution that he is being out-scored and out-assisted be a player that his detractors would insist is far inferior and has been deployed with less attacking/creative responsibility.

An honest appraisal however would concede that they've both had runs in the team (TN moreso than GLC thanks to injury, granted)......

An honest appraisal would also say you have to earn your starts on the training field and not merely coast along on the basis of how good you (or the fans) think you are.

Paid to train yadda yadda....

Wrong.... This wouldn't even be a discussion if an ever depleting few wouldn't put their fetish for supposedly technically superior players ahead of acknowledging the actual contribution of players (however rudimentary the latter may be). We've all seen this 'movie' before with Blakey/Sissoko..... Yours is not a fresh nor compelling take and your insistence on blaming a single player for our disfunction as a team is flagrant "bias" (irony!).....
PEH has played every PL minute over 1.333 seasons, under 4 different managers, ergo, PEH + Lo Celso are under-performing flops.

2 managers have been sacked based on results/performances ride or dying with PEH whilst our 2 most expensive transfers languish, ergo, the managers under-performed and failed to improve our team by integrating our biggest signings.
 
PEH has played every PL minute over 1.333 seasons, under 4 different managers, ergo, PEH + Lo Celso are under-performing flops.

Lame excuses r still lame.

2 managers have been sacked based on results/performances ride or dying with PEH

And the current one seems to be doing better with PEH. Mason didn't do too bad with him either.

.....The plot thickens. :kanehand:

whilst our 2 most expensive transfers languish, ergo, the managers under-performed and failed to improve our team by integrating our biggest signings.

Until you're prepared to ask yourself HONESTLY why they haven't been playing; you'll continue to just grind up against your brick wall of a red-herring and cling to base-less "what ifs".
 
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PEH makes GLC & TN shit...... If only 4 different managers weren't blind to that.

Yeh, bruv..... Kepe telling yourself that. :contethumb:



It isn't what's been happening but you've got your eyes tightly clamped shut to the reality and are bathing weak excuses instead.
Managers get sacked making bad decisions every week.

We all know what PEH brings to the table.

I just want to see Ndombele get a run of 90s (which is why we broke our transfer record on him) and I want to see our players protect him (and get in some faces) when the PL refs let the opposing team kick the shit out of him the first 20 minutes of every match.

TBH I'm not as bothered about Lo Celso.
 
Managers get sacked making bad decisions every week.

We all know what PEH brings to the table.

I just want to see Ndombele get a run of 90s (which is why we broke our transfer record on him)

We all did, but he's proved countless times that he can't hack 90mins.

and I want to see our players protect him (and get in some faces) when the PL refs let the opposing team kick the shit out of him the first 20 minutes of every match.

Or maybe he should just man up a bit, cos he gets no worse treatment than the rest of the team (or league for that matter).

..... Any other excuses for soft-boy?
 
And the current one seems to be doing better with PEH. Mason didn't do too bad with him either.

.....The plot thickens. :kanehand:
Mason lost a cup final with him, Mourinho had us top of the table in December.

Until you're prepared to ask yourself HONESTLY why they haven't been playing; you'll continue to just grind up against your brick wall of a red-herring and cling to base-less what ifs.
It's possible to think you're being honest with yourself whilst simultaneously being deluded.

Clarity isn't parsed from quotes in the media and reading body language.
 
Yet you obsess about PEH flaws and up till very recently you would x anyone who said Locelso saw a poor footballer and should be sold. Its good you can change your mind( no point having one if you can't do this) prehaps praise the Dane for his durability and dedication. I say this as a bloke who said from last season that I wanted him and Skipp competing for the same spot.

I don’t obsess about PEH flaws at all. I rarely post in his thread and only respond when he is brought up.

I have talked about selling Lo Celso for awhile now. And only disagree with posts that are ridiculous about him.

I am fine with PEH being a squad player or even the 3rd MFer in a MF 3 if we have the right guys around him. It’s great that he is available but if we want to compete with Liverpool, City, Chelsea we need better than that.
 
It makes perfect sense, this league is too demanding on him and he can’t hack it. So he wants to step down to a lower level that suits his lesser talent and frail body. Simple. Nowhere near good enough to play for a better club than Tottenham.

If Conte wants the player out and Gio also wants to go, then he has to go out. If it starts with a loan then so be it. Who would pay money for a player who is never fit? He never does anything when he does play anyway.

There is a gap between Beria and Tottenham tgat he could easily play for, although Betis is having a successful year so far.

I would say clubs like Villarreal or Valencia would make more sense for him or Italian teams like Napoli, Lazio, Roma.
 
Mason lost a cup final with him, Mourinho had us top of the table in December.

LOL..... What crap counter-arguments arguments....

We lost 1-0 to the best team in the land.... All XI of us. We won 4/6 under Mason.

Meanwhile; re: Jose..... Yeh, and PEH was playing regularly during that period.

It's possible to think you're being honest with yourself whilst simultaneously being deluded.

Clearly..... You are exhibiting this phenomena right now.

Clarity isn't parsed from quotes in the media and reading body language.

.......How about actual quotes from managers and coaches that have managed him?

......How about a long list of ineffectual performances?

......How about the long list of times he's become a veritable ghost between the 45 & 70min mark and subsequently been subbed.

Yeh; I know, it's all a big multi-manager (and refereeing now too! LOL) conspiracy.... No-one wants him to succeed. 👍



What compelling 'counter-evidence' are you bringing to the table, BTW?

Answer: NONE.
 
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Who removed the 'Funny' button ?

I'd love to have more creativity in the team. But 5 managers in turn have shown in team selections that Ndombele runs out of gas way before the 90- minute mark - its worth counting the number of times he's played 90 minutes since he joined Spurs. Go on guess if its more or less than 25 PL games he completed 90 minutes since joining.

You might want to look at Lo Celso's goal/assist ratio and compare it to Hojbjerg since both joined. Sadly it showed the DM has scored and assisted more than Lo Celso ................

It has already been pointed out that simple counting stats rarely tell what actually happened. GLC should be doing better there but he has provided so much more creativity than PEH.

I agree that none of the three should be starting for us. I don’t think Ndombele or GLC are the answer just better options than PEH. Ideally we will have 2-3 better options than all 3 of them by next season.
 
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