Manager Jose Mourinho

[Igula]

If it's one player with one error then it's hard to apportion blame on a manager. But it wasn't one error from one player. When it's multiple players involved then it's the coach. Where's the pressure on the ball higher up the pitch, where are the midfielders not tracking runs, the Davies example is a good one, he didn't a) either go with the man or b) didn't pass him off to Dier (I don't know what Jose does with this regard but every team will have communication about what to do in that event).

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No it isn't the managers fault when multiple players make dumb decisions.

Having a bunch of guys standing around while Berge is wide open on the first goal is not the managers fault. Players should not need a manager to tell them to not leave opposing players wide open in the box while they cover nobody.

On the second goal both Dier and Davies should know not to leave a man wide open in the middle of the box. They don't need a manager to tell them that is a problem. Dier shouldn't need a manager to tell him if he is covering nobody to stop a pass from going out to the middle of the box, Sissoko shouldn't need a manager to tell him not to just let his man run free while he saunters back slowly. Aurier should not need to be told to not let his man run by him so he can freely take a pass inside our own box. These are all issues that are on the players not the manager.

The 3rd goal is another case of lazy players shutting off not on the manager not coaching them up.

I know you are desperate to blame everything on Jose but when players make dumb, dumb mistakes that would be criticized in youth football that is not on the manager it is on the players making those basic mistakes.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

No it isn't the managers fault when multiple players make dumb decisions.

Having a bunch of guys standing around while Berge is wide open on the first goal is not the managers fault. Players should not need a manager to tell them to not leave opposing players wide open in the box while they cover nobody.

On the second goal both Dier and Davies should know not to leave a man wide open in the middle of the box. They don't need a manager to tell them that is a problem. Dier shouldn't need a manager to tell him if he is covering nobody to stop a pass from going out to the middle of the box, Sissoko shouldn't need a manager to tell him not to just let his man run free while he saunters back slowly. Aurier should not need to be told to not let his man run by him so he can freely take a pass inside our own box. These are all issues that are on the players not the manager.

The 3rd goal is another case of lazy players shutting off not on the manager not coaching them up.

I know you are desperate to blame everything on Jose but when players make dumb, dumb mistakes that would be criticized in youth football that is not on the manager it is on the players making those basic mistakes.

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All of what you have described doesn't happen in a well-drilled team when they know what their's and their fellow players are doing.

 

[Bazali]

If it's one player with one error then it's hard to apportion blame on a manager. But it wasn't one error from one player. When it's multiple players involved then it's the coach. Where's the pressure on the ball higher up the pitch, where are the midfielders not tracking runs, the Davies example is a good one, he didn't a) either go with the man or b) didn't pass him off to Dier (I don't know what Jose does with this regard but every team will have communication about what to do in that event).

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But he didn’t do anything that’s my point

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

But he didn’t do anything that’s my point

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But there were multiple errors from multiple players. Follow each phase of each their attacks, it goes all the way back to putting pressure on the Utd player from our forwards, then midfield, then defenders. It's not just what Dier or Davies or Sissoko di or didn't do. There would be no Utd attack he forwards pressured the ball, same with Midfield.

 

[Leviathan]

 

[Bazali]

But there were multiple errors from multiple players. Follow each phase of each their attacks, it goes all the way back to putting pressure on the Utd player from our forwards, then midfield, then defenders. It's not just what Dier or Davies or Sissoko di or didn't do. There would be no Utd attack he forwards pressured the ball, same with Midfield.

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But it is on what players do

For instance Aurier is woefully inconsistent at crossing the ball
He does it occasionally and usually he doesn’t but he likes attacking so you’re saying a different manager would change that and also teach experienced PL defenders how to cover and mark people?

Sorry but our players weren’t doing it for Poch and they’re not doing it fir Jose and unless there’s a clear out they won’t be doing it for any other manager soon

We better agree to disagree on this one mate

 

[Igula]

All of what you have described doesn't happen in a well-drilled team when they know what their's and their fellow players are doing.

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I disagree or I would say that many of these players would never be able to be part of a well-drilled team. Aurier has made these kind of mistakes his whole career, does that mean his manager have all been poor? When does he get blame for his role in constantly changing these things?

Dier has always had questionable defending skills which is part of the reason that he was moved to DM and why he has struggled to get into the side under Poch and Jose, when does he take blame for not being good enough.

Pep teams often give up goals due to errors like this from his players are his teams poorly drilled? Klopps Liverpool looked awful the other day giving up bad errors like this are they poorly drilled?

 

[Totti]

He's looks like a right dick when he does that.

In fact, he looks like a right dick when he plays football as well.

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[Guido 🇺🇦]

I disagree or I would say that many of these players would never be able to be part of a well-drilled team. Aurier has made these kind of mistakes his whole career, does that mean his manager have all been poor? When does he get blame for his role in constantly changing these things?

Dier has always had questionable defending skills which is part of the reason that he was moved to DM and why he has struggled to get into the side under Poch and Jose, when does he take blame for not being good enough.

Pep teams often give up goals due to errors like this from his players are his teams poorly drilled? Klopps Liverpool looked awful the other day giving up bad errors like this are they poorly drilled?

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City's errors have been largely down to one error though. One long ball over the top or ontop of whoever is playing CB. Last week it was Fernandinho(?) i think. Another it was Bernado Silva who found himself there.

So why does Jose pick Aurier? Why does he pick Dier? He has other options, one he handed out a mega new deal to only a matter of weeks ago to Toby. (personally I'm fine with how Dier has played recently and comfortable dropping Dier). Why is he playing Lo Celso deep in the double pivot?

 

[Airfixx]

Yes because Poch was here for 5 years and it is his team with the exception of 2 players 1 bought 1 on loan would you not agree?

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Why is this not relevant?

If we were crap under Poch and Mourinho, and the team has essentially been a sinking ship for 18 months, is another manager really going to solve anything?

I see a team that peaked 3 years ago and has slowly been getting worse ever since. Players who were once considered world class or close to it have seen a poor run of form that in some cases has lasted 2 years.

I look at this squad and I see problems everywhere. No competition for Kane for years now, a massive hole in the middle of our midfield for 2 years, liabilities at fullback for 2+ years, an aging and out of form centre back situation with no real quality waiting in the wings.

I think this team glanced the summit four years ago when we could have pushed Leicester for the title, and since then this group have consistently come up short in big games and have been on a steady decline in the league for the past 3 seasons.

We should have cashed in on Eriksen when we could have, should have cashed in on Toby, should have cashed in on Dier, etc. Squads in modern football are constantly being reshaped and we sat on the same core players for 4 years, and their form has consistently declined to the point where we went from contending to settling in as what looks like a middle of the table club.

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You're not the only one that says this so nothing personal, but since when did players start peaking around 23/24...?

Even Toby was only just hitting 27.... Aside from Hugo, Jan & Dembele they were all young FFS.

 

[skywalker68]

I'm 52 and hitting my peak now bitches.

 

[Airfixx]

We should have cleared the decks after the CL final but no we rested on our laurels thinking we’d made it but if the majority of us we’re being honest it was good luck and ignorance that got us there we were rubbish in the league before hand only qualifying for the CL by the good fortune United & Woolwich were fully worse and this season things didn’t improve a combination of the manager and a squad past it’s sell by date that did for us we are now going to suffer big time we better just get used to it.

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We didn't. We tried to add quality on top to improve.... Quality didn't bear fruit sadly, but that's another story.

 

[Juno]

He was a questionable appointment back in November for the rebuilding project that lay ahead. Looks like we’re stuck with him for the foreseeable though .

What would be looking at to dispense with his services or would their be any performance related criteria built in which would minimize the cost of sacking him?

 

[Igula]

City's errors have been largely down to one error though. One long ball over the top or ontop of whoever is playing CB. Last week it was Fernandinho(?) i think. Another it was Bernado Silva who found himself there.

So why does Jose pick Aurier? Why does he pick Dier? He has other options, one he handed out a mega new deal to only a matter of weeks ago. (personally I'm fine with how Dier has played recently and comfortable dropping Dier). Why is he playing Lo Celso deep in the double pivot?

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i assume he picks Aurier due in large part to no other option. I remember Tanganga playing there earlier but now that he is hurt who else can even play RB?

Dier I think that is a poor decision by him, if you want to criticize him for that go right ahead. Lo Celso again a lack of options. We can argue about whether Skipp should be there or not, I think he should be, but to me the issue with Lo Celso is more of a squad issue as we have no clear good options to play in CM outside of Lo Celso.

As for City I was thinking of the Pulisic (I think) goal where both defenders play it horribly one by flubbing the ball the other by not backing him up. They have had other instances as well. My point being that even the best side have multiple errors by players making dumb mistakes. Dumb mistakes will always beat out proper drilling no matter how great the manager is.

 

[Airfixx]

i assume he picks Aurier due in large part to no other option. I remember Tanganga playing there earlier but now that he is hurt who else can even play RB?

Dier I think that is a poor decision by him, if you want to criticize him for that go right ahead. Lo Celso again a lack of options. We can argue about whether Skipp should be there or not, I think he should be, but to me the issue with Lo Celso is more of a squad issue as we have no clear good options to play in CM outside of Lo Celso.

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I can dig out our squad list again if you want me to.

As for City I was thinking of the Pulisic (I think) goal where both defenders play it horribly one by flubbing the ball the other by not backing him up. They have had other instances as well. My point being that even the best side have multiple errors by players making dumb mistakes. Dumb mistakes will always beat out proper drilling no matter how great the manager is.

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Fair to say though that drilling is the key to minimising systematic mistakes/weaknesses is it not?

Furthermore a well drilled system can indeed help recover from individual errors that inevitably occur....

If a team repeatedly exhibits muti-man errors then perhaps they need a more stringent/regimented system to guide their efforts.

 

[DSanditon]

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Was I being unfair to the guy??

 

[Yorkshire Yid]

You're not the only one that says this so nothing personal, but since when did players start peaking around 23/24...?

Even Toby was only just hitting 27.... Aside from Hugo, Jan & Dembele they were all young FFS.

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Team peaked when Dembele peaked EG before he broke down. It's been said a million times but we never replaced him and that's why the team stopped working. The high energy game also took so much out the players and many where flogged to death as we had no actual backups Kane mainly

 

[Airfixx]

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Team peaked when Dembele peaked EG before he broke down. It's been said a million times but we never replaced him and that's why the team stopped working. The high energy game also took so much out the players and many where flogged to death as we had no actual backups Kane mainly

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Note I said players; not team....

There's no way the component parts of a team the bulk of whom were 25 or under should decline and be spent both physically and development wise a couple of years later..... We had 3 years max as an aggressive pressing side!

That would be a scathing indictment of the entire management, coaching and medical staff.....

 

[Yorkshire Yid]

Note I said players; not team....

There's no way the component parts of a team the bulk of whom were 25 or under should decline and be spent both physically and development wise a couple of years later..... We had 3 years max as an aggressive pressing side!

That would be a scathing indictment of the entire management, coaching and medical staff.....

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O yeah I agree with you mate players haven't regressed they where just never that good. Only players who went past it so to say was Moussa who broke down Rose and Toby and Jan everyone else should still either be in there prime or just never was that good

 

[Crockett]

Based on paying more attention to him since he became our manager than I did before, I think I would like him as a person. I thought he was a wanker before he came.