Lessons to be learned?
I learned that you can be a scummy club with scummier support and still win things.
I learned that you can be a scummy club with scummier support and still win things.
-
The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...
Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports
You obviously haven't been on here for very long, have you? My post was supposedly sarky and maybe funny?
At this moment in time, I'm having a difficult time with handling the coverage that they are going to get, and just their name is enough to cause the heckles to rise. I still haven't got over our failure to get going in the CL final against them, and the fact that they have gone on to better things is just rubbing salt in the wounds.
I know I'm being an ostrich but my way of dealing with is not to watch the news or buy a newspaper for the next month or so, hopefully by then, it will have died down a bit!
Good grief, another thread to avoid!
I think you have misconstrued the post.
Unfortunately Mrs. P, I fear the worst will be next season when all commentators mention it 3 times a match even when Liverpool aren't playing.
Love this argument...NOW Sonny is a backup striker. In a few months he won't be and then a few later he will be, then won't, then will. Let me help you out, he is not a striker. He cannot hold the ballup for beans. He has an iffy first touch and his only movement from that position is to try and get in behind which is easier to defend with him as the most advanced player and no real striker to worry the CBs.
I didn't throw out 'warped stats' I just mentioned draws. And the season you are talking about was the WHL season. What about the Leicester year? Both years had significant dropped points early due to draws.
You arguing that we didn't need players is absolutely killing the credibility of your argument. You are attempting to massage the facts to fit your anti-Poch agenda. You don't like Poch, fine. But we still needed players and always did during his time. We had 1 'creative' player for 5 seasons FFS. And no one in our attack had competition...something even Danny Rose spoke about. We needed players and we still do. To not even see it or admit it now is lunacy.
When you have a progressive coach who has shown he can improve what you initially handed to him, you support him. Simple
If you are a massive club and consistently spend big and pay big wages you'll eventually strike the right balance and win the league, Manchester Utd will also win this way eventually.
thanks for that, just had enough of Scouse talk already, and wanted to avoid any reference like the plague.
Is that Daniel there? The thought of actually TRYING to achieve success must be truly terrifying for you!
Whoever your manager is weather you like him or not, give him time and fully back him
I've learnt that sometimes evil does triumph over good.
The most important lesson to be learned is:
Sell your players at their peak value.
Klopp & FSG are not the important parts of the puzzle here. Coutinho is the reason they are where they are.
If he didn’t go to Barcelona For that obscene amount of money then I have no doubt that they would still be a top 6 team not a top 2 one.
Sell your players at their peak value.
Klopp & FSG are not the important parts of the puzzle here. Coutinho is the reason they are where they are.
If he didn’t go to Barcelona For that obscene amount of money then I have no doubt that they would still be a top 6 team not a top 2 one.
I'd put my house on that happening, going to have to watch games with the sound off, as I can't see us being allowed back to the stadium anytime soon!
Every time Levy says money doesn't guarantee trophies as a reason why we may not be spending I want to throw myself out of the window.
No, it's not a guarantee otherwise United would win every year, but let's stop acting like its not obviously and clearly connected, especially wages.
You hear stories of Mane and a few other players that Spurs were interested in but we weren't willing to meet wage demands. Now there may be totally legitimate reasons for this, especially a few years ago when our turnover was significantly lower and our highest paid player was Kane/Lloris at £100k/week, but it doesn't change the fact that Spurs have missed out on great players over the past few years because of our wage structure that was in place at the time.
Current pandemic aside, Spurs are now positioned to pay competitive, non-incentive based wages. The stadium debt is inconsequential, and we have a lot of other commercial potential that is still unrealized.
Smart scouting/modern analytics and a willingness to pay wages and swing big on occasion is the best way to to it for clubs that don't have unlimited funds (City, United, Chelsea).
Liverpool basically rebuilt their entire squad in 3 years and had no busts. This title is more on the squad building by the club than Klopp.
Yeah, in terms of transfer dealings - the way I see it:
Klopp saw weaknesses, went and got what we wanted and his team now is pretty much entirely one he built based on what HE needed, his style of play and it's shown. Allison, van Dijk, Matip, Robertson, Wijnaldum, Keita, Fabinho, Salah, Mane.
The only players who were there before him were Henderson and Firmino and he noticed the talent TAA had and started him, despite his age.
Pochettino, whether he saw weaknesses or not, showed too much faith in players who were here LONG before he got here. Key components of his teams? Lloris, Walker, Vertonghen, Rose, Dembele, Lamela, Eriksen, Kane - all here before him. To his credit he saw weaknesses in our defence and improved that with Alderweireld and Wanyama and also brought in Son.
But besides the high press, he never seemed to have a system in place in which if we replace one guy in the team, they come in and do the same job to allow for a smooth transition. Trippier and Walker, two worlds apart. Davies and Rose the same. Lose Kane? Janssen, Llorente. Lose Dembele? Ouch.
How many times did we groan if we didn't see Dembele starting, because we knew we'd most likely lose a midfield battle? I don't think you can take a single person out of that Liverpool team and see a big change in the way they play, how they press, go about things or allow the opposition any more hope.
Our back up for the most part was fine, we had some good players. But when you're a Premier League team and you see today that Walker and Rose, who usually tire out your defence and pin back your wingers because of how attacking they are have missed the starting eleven and instead you play the more cautious and less athletic Trippier and Davies, you start to get a bit more confident....
16/17 - our bench was full of players like Sissoko, Winks, Davies, Trippier.... fast forward 2 seasons later and those 4 are all starting games time and time again.
16/17 - Liverpools starting 11 was full of players like Lovren, Lallana, Clyne, Milner etc. - who for the most part over the next few years got upgraded on and were all on the bench to provide depth.
Thats a HUGE difference.
I don't think we're going to be a TRUE threat until a manager makes HIS mark on the team, gets an actual philosophy in place with a clear style and has every single member of his squad in sync with that particular style allowing for rotation to occur and not entirely change our style of play.
Klopp saw weaknesses, went and got what we wanted and his team now is pretty much entirely one he built based on what HE needed, his style of play and it's shown. Allison, van Dijk, Matip, Robertson, Wijnaldum, Keita, Fabinho, Salah, Mane.
The only players who were there before him were Henderson and Firmino and he noticed the talent TAA had and started him, despite his age.
Pochettino, whether he saw weaknesses or not, showed too much faith in players who were here LONG before he got here. Key components of his teams? Lloris, Walker, Vertonghen, Rose, Dembele, Lamela, Eriksen, Kane - all here before him. To his credit he saw weaknesses in our defence and improved that with Alderweireld and Wanyama and also brought in Son.
But besides the high press, he never seemed to have a system in place in which if we replace one guy in the team, they come in and do the same job to allow for a smooth transition. Trippier and Walker, two worlds apart. Davies and Rose the same. Lose Kane? Janssen, Llorente. Lose Dembele? Ouch.
How many times did we groan if we didn't see Dembele starting, because we knew we'd most likely lose a midfield battle? I don't think you can take a single person out of that Liverpool team and see a big change in the way they play, how they press, go about things or allow the opposition any more hope.
Our back up for the most part was fine, we had some good players. But when you're a Premier League team and you see today that Walker and Rose, who usually tire out your defence and pin back your wingers because of how attacking they are have missed the starting eleven and instead you play the more cautious and less athletic Trippier and Davies, you start to get a bit more confident....
16/17 - our bench was full of players like Sissoko, Winks, Davies, Trippier.... fast forward 2 seasons later and those 4 are all starting games time and time again.
16/17 - Liverpools starting 11 was full of players like Lovren, Lallana, Clyne, Milner etc. - who for the most part over the next few years got upgraded on and were all on the bench to provide depth.
Thats a HUGE difference.
I don't think we're going to be a TRUE threat until a manager makes HIS mark on the team, gets an actual philosophy in place with a clear style and has every single member of his squad in sync with that particular style allowing for rotation to occur and not entirely change our style of play.
We didn’t need those players 3 years - that Spurs team was at it absolute height, it didn’t loose a single game at home and finished 2nd. And won absolutely nothing when it should have.
And you are actually proving my point when you say it needed another 3 players because if manager needs 3 more quality players when you have team of that quality in order to win something then it really says it all. Liverpool have won a CL and league title with little to no squad and Klopp did it with virtually no new signings in 18 months.
I love the selectivity - Klopp got Mane, Salah etc whilst Poch got Sissoko and Sanchez. What about Son? Ali, Alderwield? Hey? Pochettinho got more control over are transfers as his tenure went on and guess what the quality dropped. We were spending comparable sums to Liverpool but ending up with lesser players which is not suprising given this the man that smashed Southampton’s transfer record for Osvaldo who was a complete disaster.
If a manager cannot win even a league cup with a prime Kane, Ali, Son, Eriksen, Dembele, Dier, Vertonghen, Alderwield, Rose, Walker, Lloris then 2-3 quality signings isn’t going to make a league title possible.
He simply isn’t an elite manager - his 11 year managerial record tells you that. The guy is absolute heir to his mentor Bielsa - a darling of the self appointed football intelligentsia but has no substance to him. He never has and never will be a winner.