Lessons to be learnt from Liverpool winning the title?

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I think if there is anything to take from Liverpool "winning" and it is a stretch to connect them to this but I will try anyways, is to not be satisfied with an ok squad.

As many have posted with the squad they had when Klopp took over and played us they totally revamped it while we still have the majority of our core intact. They moved guys out when it was clear they were a problem (Courtinho) or were not good enough (Skrtel, Mignolet, Moreno, Sakho etc) even though they had some success with those players and they were somewhat rated.

They did not sit on their ok accomplishment and hoped guys would just get better or play at their peak they actively went out to improve their team and fill holes. Tottenham for the past 3-4(?) years seemed to have been way more passive letting guys like Erikson, Toby/Jan, Rose stick around so that their value runs down and hoping that guys like Dele, Dier, Winks, KWP would take big steps up or play at their absolute peak.

LiVARpool also got lucky that some of their guys did take those big jumps TAA, Robertson, Mane and others did play at their peaks for longer than you would expect but they didn't just stay the course they were active in getting what they wanted.
 
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Depends on who that manager is ! Mourinho undid everything Poch achieved in a few months!
Everything he did? We were in 13th (or close to it) spot when Mourinho took over. If he did undue what Poch achieved then good for him because bottom of the table is not what I think any of us would have wanted to keep "achieving."
 
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Mane, Salah, Firmino, Fabinho, Van Dijk, Alisson, Keita... I forgot some..

Klopp got them.
What did Poch get in thoose years? Don't be silly, Poch isn't perfect, but that squad needed 2-3 more players.
Poch had one of our greatest teams and couldn’t get over the line with them
Lovely guy but ultimately just not good enough
 
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Totti

⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐
Yeah, in terms of transfer dealings - the way I see it:

Klopp saw weaknesses, went and got what we wanted and his team now is pretty much entirely one he built based on what HE needed, his style of play and it's shown. Allison, van Dijk, Matip, Robertson, Wijnaldum, Keita, Fabinho, Salah, Mane.

The only players who were there before him were Henderson and Firmino and he noticed the talent TAA had and started him, despite his age.

Pochettino, whether he saw weaknesses or not, showed too much faith in players who were here LONG before he got here. Key components of his teams? Lloris, Walker, Vertonghen, Rose, Dembele, Lamela, Eriksen, Kane - all here before him. To his credit he saw weaknesses in our defence and improved that with Alderweireld and Wanyama and also brought in Son.

But besides the high press, he never seemed to have a system in place in which if we replace one guy in the team, they come in and do the same job to allow for a smooth transition. Trippier and Walker, two worlds apart. Davies and Rose the same. Lose Kane? Janssen, Llorente. Lose Dembele? Ouch.

How many times did we groan if we didn't see Dembele starting, because we knew we'd most likely lose a midfield battle? I don't think you can take a single person out of that Liverpool team and see a big change in the way they play, how they press, go about things or allow the opposition any more hope.

Our back up for the most part was fine, we had some good players. But when you're a Premier League team and you see today that Walker and Rose, who usually tire out your defence and pin back your wingers because of how attacking they are have missed the starting eleven and instead you play the more cautious and less athletic Trippier and Davies, you start to get a bit more confident....

16/17 - our bench was full of players like Sissoko, Winks, Davies, Trippier.... fast forward 2 seasons later and those 4 are all starting games time and time again.

16/17 - Liverpools starting 11 was full of players like Lovren, Lallana, Clyne, Milner etc. - who for the most part over the next few years got upgraded on and were all on the bench to provide depth.

Thats a HUGE difference.

I don't think we're going to be a TRUE threat until a manager makes HIS mark on the team, gets an actual philosophy in place with a clear style and has every single member of his squad in sync with that particular style allowing for rotation to occur and not entirely change our style of play.
 
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Mane, Salah, Firmino, Fabinho, Van Dijk, Alisson, Keita... I forgot some..

Klopp got them.
What did Poch get in thoose years? Don't be silly, Poch isn't perfect, but that squad needed 2-3 more players.
Mane cost £34 million - one month later we paid £30 million for Sissoko.

The likes of Salah and Fabinho didn’t cost large money - Davison Sanchez cost more that both.

Yes Klopp inherited Firmino - Pochettino inherited Kane, Eriksen, Dembele, Lloris, Vertoghen, Walker I their prime and was then given Son, Dier, Alderwield.

He broke our transfer fee on multiple occasions - Son, Sissoko, Sanchez and Ndombele and had other large money signings like Lo Celso.

And unlike Klopp he didn’t need to sell his best player to funds these which is what he had to do with Van Dyik and Alisson.

That Spurs team should have won something but it didn’t because Pochettinho was always the weak link in the chain. The guy got completely found out when that team reached the end of its cycle and yet some still choose not to see the obvious
 
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Deggsy56

Dekker
The most salutory lesson to be learnt from this is that it all starts from selecting the right Manager. No room for cost cutting or looking for people with 'potential'. Don't look for someone with an ego that's bigger than the club either. Had Levy signed somebody with the passion, drive and ambition of Klopp then fully supported him financially perhaps we would be celebrating today instead of them.

It's no coincidence that 30 years of waiting have ended because they appointed someone who shared the fans hunger. Like it or not it's a pleasure to watch Klopp's relaxed and amiable media style when interviewed in comparison to Mourinho's 'petulant child' whinings and excuse findings.

Who is this mystery guy to bring us success ? I really don't know, but whoever decided at Liverpool that Jurgen was the man for the job played an absolute blinder. Let's find him quick and seek his advice.
Very well said. Excellent post Hagrid. Mourinho was never and will never be the right fit for Spurs !! He was out of work. Simple as!
 
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Does anyone think/believe that Liverpool winning the title (and the ridiculous notion that anything can be learnt from it) will even register on ENIC's radar? Or will the search for the ultimate glory that is a perfect balance sheet just go inexorably onwards?
Spend more ressources on football, players, staff, organisation.

Less on buildings, inter-franchise tournaments, concert advertising and French players starting with " N' "
 
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Mane cost £34 million - one month later we paid £30 million for Sissoko.

The likes of Salah and Fabinho didn’t cost large money - Davison Sanchez cost more that both.

Yes Klopp inherited Firmino - Pochettino inherited Kane, Eriksen, Dembele, Lloris, Vertoghen, Walker I their prime and was then given Son, Dier, Alderwield.

He broke our transfer fee on multiple occasions - Son, Sissoko, Sanchez and Ndombele and had other large money signings like Lo Celso.

And unlike Klopp he didn’t need to sell his best player to funds these which is what he had to do with Van Dyik and Alisson.

That Spurs team should have won something but it didn’t because Pochettinho was always the weak link in the chain. The guy got completely found out when that team reached the end of its cycle and yet some still choose not to see the obvious
You don't see the problem?
We got Lo Celso and Ndombele NOW, we needed that kind of transfer 3 years ago. Do you really think Poch wanted Sissoko badly? We got him in last hour of transfer window, because we didn't get anyone nearly good.

The difference is there. They go on and bought Salah, Mane, Fabinho, Van Dijk, while Levy bought Sissoko and Sanchez. Fuxking hell, the nerve to compare 21year old Samchez to experiance thoose Liverpool players had when they came to their club..

I get it. We should have won SOMETHING. But not the league. We missed players like Lo Celso, WORLD CLASS.

Klopp had Robertson and TAA, best of the fucking best. Henderson is better than any of our midfielders at this point.

But I don't wanna believe Pochettino's first choice were Sissoko or Sanchez.

You can talk about transfers. When you mention Liveroool you'll say Salah, Mane, Firmino, Fabinho.
Whey you mention Spurs, you'll say Sissoko, Sanchez, Aurier.. THEN ONLY LAST SUMMER, we got truly great players.

Ultimately, we got the stadium. If that money or little bit of that money was invested in our team, we would won the league at least once. Just my opinion. Poch was good enough for that.
 
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JohnH

Supporter
❌ ❌ 🔥 ❌ ❌
Does anyone think/believe that Liverpool winning the title (and the ridiculous notion that anything can be learnt from it) will even register on ENIC's radar? Or will the search for the ultimate glory that is a perfect balance sheet just go inexorably onwards?
Fair point. With the likes of Jan, Foyth and Danny likely all gone, a major upgrade is required defensively. LoCelso might be a replacement for Eriksen but with the bust that is Ndombele likely also out the door, then more steel is required in the midfield to assist Sissoko. And that doesn't even include the most glaring omission - and the starkest example of Levy's total negligence and incompetence in the transfer market - and that is the ongoing lack of an alternative (or possibly even complimentary) senior central striking option to Harry. Now with the excuse of COVID-19, Levy won't be making any of those necessary additions and upgrades.
Oh look another thread bashing Levy... 😴
 
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You don't see the problem?
We got Lo Celso and Ndombele NOW, we needed that kind of transfer 3 years ago. Do you really think Poch wanted Sissoko badly? We got him in last hour of transfer window, because we didn't get anyone nearly good.

The difference is there. They go on and bought Salah, Mane, Fabinho, Van Dijk, while Levy bought Sissoko and Sanchez. Fuxking hell, the nerve to compare 21year old Samchez to experiance thoose Liverpool players had when they came to their club..

I get it. We should have won SOMETHING. But not the league. We missed players like Lo Celso, WORLD CLASS.

Klopp had Robertson and TAA, best of the fucking best. Henderson is better than any of our midfielders at this point.

But I don't wanna believe Pochettino's first choice were Sissoko or Sanchez.

You can talk about transfers. When you mention Liveroool you'll say Salah, Mane, Firmino, Fabinho.
Whey you mention Spurs, you'll say Sissoko, Sanchez, Aurier.. THEN ONLY LAST SUMMER, we got truly great players.

Ultimately, we got the stadium. If that money or little bit of that money was invested in our team, we would won the league at least once. Just my opinion. Poch was good enough for that.
We didn’t need those players 3 years - that Spurs team was at it absolute height, it didn’t loose a single game at home and finished 2nd. And won absolutely nothing when it should have.

And you are actually proving my point when you say it needed another 3 players because if manager needs 3 more quality players when you have team of that quality in order to win something then it really says it all. Liverpool have won a CL and league title with little to no squad and Klopp did it with virtually no new signings in 18 months.

I love the selectivity - Klopp got Mane, Salah etc whilst Poch got Sissoko and Sanchez. What about Son? Ali, Alderwield? Hey? Pochettinho got more control over are transfers as his tenure went on and guess what the quality dropped. We were spending comparable sums to Liverpool but ending up with lesser players which is not suprising given this the man that smashed Southampton’s transfer record for Osvaldo who was a complete disaster.

If a manager cannot win even a league cup with a prime Kane, Ali, Son, Eriksen, Dembele, Dier, Vertonghen, Alderwield, Rose, Walker, Lloris then 2-3 quality signings isn’t going to make a league title possible.

He simply isn’t an elite manager - his 11 year managerial record tells you that. The guy is absolute heir to his mentor Bielsa - a darling of the self appointed football intelligentsia but has no substance to him. He never has and never will be a winner.
 
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todd1882

'Cause I know the power of the question
Liverpool basically rebuilt their entire squad in 3 years and had no busts. This title is more on the squad building by the club than Klopp.
This is not strictly true is it? One of the highest profile transfers, unique in execution, hasn't panned out and it was directly related to their biggest sale.

edit: your overarching point still has significant merit however.
 
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todd1882

'Cause I know the power of the question
We didn’t need those players 3 years - that Spurs team was at it absolute height, it didn’t loose a single game at home and finished 2nd. And won absolutely nothing when it should have.
Yes we did. So many draws that would have been wins with a little extra quality...or depth. It's foolish to deny it. No backup striker, a CB as DM, no CM to backup Mousa, etc.
 
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This is not strictly true is it? One of the highest profile transfers, unique in execution, hasn't panned out and it was directly related to their biggest sale.

edit: your overarching point still has significant merit however.
Yes, I was being hyperbolic, they've had a couple missteps, but I think that is more injury related (Keita, Ox). Has there been anyone they've bought summer 2016-summer 2018 that has been just bad?

Karius was brought in the summer of 2016, so that was a miss, but since then they bought Mane, Wijnaldum, Salah, Van Djik, Robertson, Fabinho and Allison. That's 7/11 starters in 3 years. TAA was academy, and Firmino was bought in 2015. That is a crazy hit rate for a club that wasn't spending huge money until January 2018.

Look at the Spurs starting XI - we added one impact player from 2016-2018, Wanyama, and he only did it for one season. Sissoko, Lucas and Sanchez are all depth on a title winning team, so we basically added no new starters for 3 years. Everyone else we bought is clearly depth quality or just bad/sold.

That's an organizational failure: Poch, Levy, Scouting....everyone.
 
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Yes we did. So many draws that would have been wins with a little extra quality...or depth. It's foolish to deny it. No backup striker, a CB as DM, no CM to backup Mousa, etc.
We did have a back striker - it’s called Son. And let’s not warp the stats, we lost the fewest games that season and had the second highest win count

Strange that Liverpool can win a European Cup and CL with average squad options but we can’t. Almost as strange as some in our supporter base endlessly excusing a manager that manage to win 0 with that team.
 
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