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Management Levy / €NIC. In or Out

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Levy / ENIC. In or Out

  • Levy / ENIC. We want you to stay

  • Levy / ENIC. Get out of our club


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It's entirely rational when you realise football is a sport and not war, or accounting, or something else that is very serious. These topics deserve an entirely rational approach, football doesn't. Sport is meant to be about highs and lows and emotion, it's designed to be romantic.

Your arguments might be more convincing (and we wouldn't have an 85% majority on this forum convinced by ENIC out) if we weren't talking about sport. In that context it isn t rational to act like stability is the Holy Grail, in fact in sporting terms stability is often more frustrating than being rubbish.

People don't pay the highest ticket prices in the world & travel all over the place for another 20 years of stability, and that's all we'll get as we're no closer to winning a trophy than we have been at any point in a decade. ENIC in posters = treading water, happy to accept abject mediocrity. ENIC Out = daring to dream, risk takers who understand that football is the beautiful motherfucking game and not bloody accounting. You lot stick to missionary in bed, admit it...*


*This characterisation is very tongue in cheek, but since you're deigning to portray the ENIC in posters as some paragon of rational, deep thought, I reckoned I'd do something similar in reverse.
Stability is a feature definitely. And teams with volatility have fared a lot worse than teams with stability. Think about Manchester United since they want from stable to volatile. Or Everton (who were a similar size club to us when ENIC took over (I know that’s before your time).

ENIC have overseen sustained, long-term progress. That’s the key to this.

Creating volatility gives you space to dream but it doesn’t lead to long term success. The only teams who have combined volatility with long term success are those who have been rich enough to soak up their expensive failures. That’s not us.
 
The Paradox of this thread :sonhmm:

It's very interesting

ENIC fans / supporters / defenders / apologists (I can never make out which term is acceptable to them) garnering barely 20% of the vote, but seemingly contributing over 50% of the posts.

And yet they accuse those of us who think 22 years is long enough and it's time for change as being the ones obsessed!!!

Why care so much about them. I'm sure they don't care about you guys

Me thinks there's a few more sharing Shady's passion than are letting on.

 
Stability is a feature definitely. And teams with volatility have fared a lot worse than teams with stability. Think about Manchester United since they want from stable to volatile. Or Everton (who were a similar size club to us when ENIC took over (I know that’s before your time).

ENIC have overseen sustained, long-term progress. That’s the key to this.

Creating volatility gives you space to dream but it doesn’t lead to long term success. The only teams who have combined volatility with long term success are those who have been rich enough to soak up their expensive failures. That’s not us.
Everton have done exactly what Spurs have done and instead of endorsing your assertion, that ENIC somehow = stability, it actually points to the opposite of that if you look at the evidence.

Everton's real problem is that although they are a big club, with money to spend, they can't compete financially on an equal footing with Liverpool, Manchester City or Manchester United the other three big clubs in the North West of England.

Everton have become the fourth choice club, for ambitious foreign players, in the North West, as the Premier League has progressed and become increasingly the wealthiest and most prosperous football league in the world.

London clubs already have an advantage, over all clubs from the North West and the rest of the country, when it comes to attracting the most ambitious players from abroad, which makes Everton's task even harder. Newcastle's emergence will arguably compound Everton's problems and may explain why they are dropping like a stone.

My point is this. Despite having resources it is Everton's decline in the pecking order of Northern England's biggest football clubs that makes their position difficult in respect of attracting the best players.

Under ENIC Spurs have accepted playing second fiddle to Woolwich and Chelsea, in our own regional pecking order, when it comes to signing the most ambitious players. Spurs are now reduced to battling with West Ham for foreign players who would prefer to live in London. If the player attracts serious interest from either Woolwich or Chelsea then Spurs don't very often complete these deals.

Spurs are third in the pecking order of the 4 biggest London clubs.

Everton are fourth in their pecking order.

That tells me Spurs are one step away from being West Ham; under ENIC's tutelage.
 
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The Paradox of this thread :sonhmm:

It's very interesting

ENIC fans / supporters / defenders / apologists (I can never make out which term is acceptable to them) garnering barely 20% of the vote, but seemingly contributing over 50% of the posts.

And yet they accuse those of us who think 22 years is long enough and it's time for change as being the ones obsessed!!!

Why care so much about them. I'm sure they don't care about you guys

Me thinks there's a few more sharing Shady's passion than are letting on.
Who cares if people (including shadyDan) love ENIC? You can love more than one thing.

Your rhetoric is designed to split the fanbase along an invented line - those true fans who love the club and those bad fans who only love ENIC.

It’s so transparent. I think you were anti-Brexit but your rhetoric is straight out of that populist playbook. And then of course the next second you make noises about being reasonable. You’re better than that ?
 
Stability is a feature definitely. And teams with volatility have fared a lot worse than teams with stability. Think about Manchester United since they want from stable to volatile. Or Everton (who were a similar size club to us when ENIC took over (I know that’s before your time).

ENIC have overseen sustained, long-term progress. That’s the key to this.

Creating volatility gives you space to dream but it doesn’t lead to long term success. The only teams who have combined volatility with long term success are those who have been rich enough to soak up their expensive failures. That’s not us.

22 years without more than a league cup to show for it.
 
Everton have done exactly what Spurs have done and instead of endorsing your assertion, that ENIC somehow = stability, it actually points to the opposite of that if you look at the evidence.

Everton's real problem is that although they are a big club, with money to spend, they can't compete financially on an equal footing with Liverpool, Manchester City or Manchester United the other three big clubs in the North West of England.

Everton have become the fourth choice club, for ambitious foreign players, in the North West, as the Premier League has progressed and become increasingly the wealthiest and most prosperous football league in the world.

London clubs already have an advantage, over all clubs from the North West and the rest of the country, when it comes to attracting the most ambitious players from abroad, which makes Everton's task even harder. Newcastle's emergence will arguably compound Everton's problems and may explain why they are dropping like a stone.

My point is this. Despite having resources it is Everton's decline in the pecking order of Northern England's biggest football clubs that makes their position difficult in respect of attracting the best players.

Under ENIC Spurs have accepted playing second fiddle to Woolwich and Chelsea in our own regional pecking order when it comes to signing the most ambitious players. Spurs are now reduced to battling with West Ham for foreign players who would prefer to live in London. If the player attracts serious interest from either Woolwich or Chelsea then Spurs don't very often complete these deals.

Spurs are third in the pecking order of the 4 biggest London clubs.

Everton are fourth in their pecking order.

That tells me Spurs are one step away from being West Ham; under ENIC's tutelage.
You haven’t fully unpacked your reasoning.

Why have everton fallen behind their rivals?
Answer: they were always behind Man Utd and Liverpool and then Man City got the unlimited backing of a country.

Why have Tottenham fallen behind their rivals?
Tottenham we’re already a long way behind Woolwich when ENIC took over (they were just about the biggest team in the country at the time). Chelsea were taken over by a sports washing oligarch.

Why have Tottenham done a LOT LOT better than Everton in that time frame despite being very similar when ENIC took over?

Better leadership.
 
Who cares if people (including shadyDan) love ENIC? You can love more than one thing.

Your rhetoric is designed to split the fanbase along an invented line - those true fans who love the club and those bad fans who only love ENIC.

It’s so transparent. I think you were anti-Brexit but your rhetoric is straight out of that populist playbook. And then of course the next second you make noises about being reasonable. You’re better than that ?

You're fucking weird if you actually love ENIC, sorry. If you think they're good for the club that's fine but actively loving these owners is odd. They really don't view the fans as anything other than customers and have proven this repeatedly. This is normal in modern football but having love for a fucking investment company headed by Joe Lewis is bizarre behaviour.

Personally I think Shady was probably just on the wind up. I doubt anyone actually 'loves' ENIC.
 
You haven’t fully unpacked your reasoning.

Why have everton fallen behind their rivals?
Answer: they were always behind Man Utd and Liverpool and then Man City got the unlimited backing of a country.

Why have Tottenham fallen behind their rivals?
Tottenham we’re already a long way behind Woolwich when ENIC took over (they were just about the biggest team in the country at the time). Chelsea were taken over by a sports washing oligarch.

Why have Tottenham done a LOT LOT better than Everton in that time frame despite being very similar when ENIC took over?

Better leadership.
I disagree.

Everton's biggest mistake was selling their best player, Wayne Rooney, to a direct rival.

It informed the rest of the league that Everton Football Club had given up on competing with the biggest clubs in the country and were happy to let a direct rival pay them compensation for taking their best players.

It set a precedent that Everton have never recovered from.

Tottenham have generally employed the same methods as Everton during the Premier League years.

We sell our best players.

Both Everton and Tottenham no longer win anything of note having both been very successful clubs before the Premier League began.

Spurs have a logistical advantage over Everton, in respect of attracting players from overseas, but have been run in a very similar way.
 
22 years without more than a league cup to show for it.
Man City have spent over 2 billion pounds in the past decade and hired a legendary manager and they have 0 champions leagues. One losing final after all that ridiculous money spent? That’s the same as us and pathetic and I’m sure there are people on their forums moaning angrily despite all that success.
 
You're fucking weird if you actually love ENIC, sorry. If you think they're good for the club that's fine but actively loving these owners is odd. They really don't view the fans as anything other than customers and have proven this repeatedly. This is normal in modern football but having love for a fucking investment company headed by Joe Lewis is bizarre behaviour.

Personally I think Shady was probably just on the wind up. I doubt anyone actually 'loves' ENIC.
You are a master at missing the point.
 
I disagree.

Everton's biggest mistake was selling their best player, Wayne Rooney, to a direct rival.

It informed the rest of the league that Everton Football Club had given up on competing with the biggest clubs in the country and were happy to let a direct rival pay them compensation for taking their best players.

It set a precedent that Everton have never recovered from.

Tottenham have generally employed the same methods as Everton during the Premier League years.

We sell our best players.

Both Everton and Tottenham no longer win anything of note having both been very successful clubs before the Premier League began.

Spurs have a logistical advantage over Everton, in respect of attracting players from overseas, but have been run in a very similar way.
Are you for real? The richest, most successful, most well-supported clubs in the world are their direct competitors and you ignore all that and put the difference down to selling Wayne Rooney?

How can we discuss this when your view ignores reality.
 
Are you for real? The richest, most successful, most well-supported clubs in the world are their direct competitors and you ignore all that and put the difference down to selling Wayne Rooney?

How can we discuss this when your view ignores reality.
Ah.

I was expecting it to get personal with histrionics once I replied.

Yes I am for real.

Selling Rooney followed on from selling Jeffers to Woolwich if you recall.

It was a pattern.

A bit like THFC's pattern of selling Carrick, Berbatov, Modric and Bale.

Everton used to compete for and win titles when Manchester United were struggling to compete.

Selling their best players, to both Woolwich and United, lowered the expectations of the Everton supporters and turned Everton into a selling club.

A club that develops players and if they are any good sells them on.

Everton stopped competing for and winning trophies.
 
You are a master at missing the point.

No you're just shit at making them.

It's fucking weird if you love ENIC and I couldn't care less if saying that creates a divide. Some of you are waaaaaaayyyy too defensive of them. There's others who are ENIC in who sort of just content with status quo or don't want to risk it. Some of you huff their fucking farts and it is bizarre.
 
Man City have spent over 2 billion pounds in the past decade and hired a legendary manager and they have 0 champions leagues. One losing final after all that ridiculous money spent? That’s the same as us and pathetic and I’m sure there are people on their forums moaning angrily despite all that success.

LMFAO ... weakest point of the thread goes to!
 
Ah.

I was expecting it to get personal with histrionics once I replied.

Yes I am for real.

Selling Rooney followed on from selling Jeffers to Woolwich if you recall.

It was a pattern.

A bit like THFC's pattern of selling Carrick, Berbatov, Modric and Bale.

Everton used to compete for and win titles when Manchester United were struggling to compete.

Selling their best players, to both Woolwich and United, lowered the expectations of the Everton supporters and turned Everton into a selling club.

A club that develops players and if they are any good sells them on.

Everton stopped competing for and winning trophies.
Nothing was personal.

Question - why do you think clubs like everton sell their players to bigger, richer, more successful clubs? Is it because they have a bad attitude or is because the buying clubs are bigger, richer, and more successful?
 
No you're just shit at making them.

It's fucking weird if you love ENIC and I couldn't care less if saying that creates a divide. Some of you are waaaaaaayyyy too defensive of them. There's others who are ENIC in who sort of just content with status quo or don't want to risk it. Some of you huff their fucking farts and it is bizarre.
I’m not. The point of that post was very clear. Abundantly so. You have a habit of hyper focusing on a point and running with it instead of following an argument. Does not say much for the British education system.

Nobody « huffs their farts ». Fantastic strawman. Find 3 quotes you think fit that description. Absolute bogeyman.

« I couldn’t care less if I use needlessly divisive rhetoric » is an interesting take. Does somewhat fit with your vitriolic persona.

Amazing that such a moderate, reasonable poster on political threads can be so uncentered in here. Maybe we should stop interacting because you just seem rattled the whole time.
 
The Paradox of this thread :sonhmm:

It's very interesting

ENIC fans / supporters / defenders / apologists (I can never make out which term is acceptable to them) garnering barely 20% of the vote, but seemingly contributing over 50% of the posts.

And yet they accuse those of us who think 22 years is long enough and it's time for change as being the ones obsessed!!!

Why care so much about them. I'm sure they don't care about you guys

Me thinks there's a few more sharing Shady's passion than are letting on.
New Orleans Food GIF by PBS Digital Studios
 
I’m not. The point of that post was very clear. Abundantly so. You have a habit of hyper focusing on a point and running with it instead of following an argument. Does not say much for the British education system.

Nobody « huffs their farts ». Fantastic strawman. Find 3 quotes you think fit that description. Absolute bogeyman.

« I couldn’t care less if I use needlessly divisive rhetoric » is an interesting take. Does somewhat fit with your vitriolic persona.

Amazing that such a moderate, reasonable poster on political threads can be so uncentered in here. Maybe we should stop interacting because you just seem rattled the whole time.

Hahaha .. you're such a wanker. This is what you do, act like you're some civilised debater but constantly snipe/make pathetic little passive aggressive or patronising comments. You're not half as intelligent or convincing as you think you are.

Nobody huffs their farts? We were literally discussing somebody openly saying they love them. How the fuck is that not huffing their farts? Jesus.

Also .. open your fucking eyes, you're more divisive than most ENIC out posters. You spend half your time talking about how intelligent or eloquent your side is and how irrational and dumb the other side is, hence why I constantly engage with you in this way but can be polite to other ENIC in posters. Trying to hide behind a veneer of civility just makes it worse, at least be open with your twattishness.
 
Hahaha .. you're such a wanker. This is what you do, act like you're some civilised debater but constantly snipe/make pathetic little passive aggressive or patronising comments. You're not half as intelligent or convincing as you think you are.

Also .. open your fucking eyes, you're more divisive than most ENIC out posters. You spend half your time talking about how intelligent or eloquent your side is and how irrational and dumb the other side is, hence why I constantly engage with you in this way but can be polite to other ENIC in posters. Trying to hide behind a veneer of civility just makes it worse, at least be open with your twattishness.
Don’t get angry at an internet avatar. - it’s unbecoming. You’ve had plenty of opportunities to engage with me on the substance and you ignore, deflect, or miss the point completely.

I’m not getting anything from engaging with you on this so I’m done. Bye!
 
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