Missed opportunity, oh well.
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Manager Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter WHITE&BLUE
- Start date
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Missed opportunity, oh well.
One of those players who definitely should have been a yiddo, looks the part
I think it may be a wash. They have a very good structure for recruiting managers. That said, Koeman has struggled as much as Pochettino with a lack of a plan B. If Pelle isn't scoring, they kind of veer into the mediocre.Just on the field or off it as well?:eriksenlol:
I also think Koeman, as Pochettino has said, had an easier time taking a squad trained how to press competently, and then working on their counter attack, rather than taking the mess that was Spurs, and making them an identifiable team.
AVB's wrong tactics/philosophy, and Tim's 4-4-YOLO weren't anything to build from.
He was, and would have been a good partner for Jan. We can't win them all, though. We offered 20 million for Depay, so it wasn't like we weren't looking for upgrades in summer, they just aren't always going to come.
Meh, subjectivity ahoy but I while I tend to agree with you that those players had a better proven track record than the outbound players - they also represented the usual gamble that you take bringing in players from 'inferior' leagues. Mane had a great record in Salzburg, but he was playing against Austrian teams. Pelle had 1 great season in Holland, but then again so did players like Alfonso Alves (remember him?) and even Dirk Kuyt scored goals for fun over there.
Objectively (and I don't agree with these prices) the players they sold were at least 5 times more valued than their replacements. If Mane, Pelle and Tadic were obviously better then surely the likes of Utd, Woolwich and Liverpool would have gone after them instead and saved money? (homegrown rule not withstanding).
We could go on all day like this but I honestly see your side and just happen to disagree that Poch's track record is as good as you think it is. I see "did well", you see "massively overachieved".
I don't particularly blame Poch for this, but I don't think we've been that great all season. A few last minute goals and wonder freekicks haven't been enough for me.
I do think that SAF would do better with these players, but also think Poch would do better if we signed Messi, so hardly fair.
I do think that SAF would do better with these players, but also think Poch would do better if we signed Messi, so hardly fair.
Sorry mate, but we can't use their previous performances for anything. You're basically saying that Adebayor "on his day" is unplayable, those days are few and far between. The performances of the players you've listed have been all been average or worse. Their previous spells are worth fuck all
Pocochino has plan A yes we know, it's based around the Eleven players he can trust but Plan B depends on the reserves warming the bench, unfortunately there is not enough quality to change games .
This manager knows what he wants, and if Levy gives him the funds then I trust him to keep our club in hunt for glory COYS
This manager knows what he wants, and if Levy gives him the funds then I trust him to keep our club in hunt for glory COYS
Can you answer the question above then.....do you reckon SAF could find a plan b with our exact same squad?
The SAF that first took charge of Utd or the one that left?
Yes he would but would take time to get it right!!!! Just like Plan A takes time! Just like it did for him at Man U
Oh Sammy go out and screw one of those beautiful Swedish birds please, give yourself a break!
sammyspurs think it hard to compare Poch and SAF and I am not just talking about their records/age etc. Poch is an idealist, he has a system that requires very particular players to work, our CB's have to be quick, good on the ball and read the game well for example. Very much like Barca or even the scum we are aiming for a certain type of play and arguably we don't have the tools to complete the job yet.
SAF fits more into the Pulis/Redknapp category (yes I know more successful of course), he is a pragmatist who changes his system depending on what players he has, not to say he doesn't have a style he eventually wants to play but he is generally a bit more open.
I always thought at the start of the season if we wanted a manager with the best chance of short term success (ie. top 4) Pulis would have been a better choice than Poch or De Boer as he would have taken our hotchpotch squad and formed a cohesive difficult unit out of it and made us very resilient. With Poch and the young players that are coming through I thing a long term approach is being developed, that we should play a particular style and that takes time. I don't mind this as the style is quite nice unlike AVB which was dogshit boring.
But surely you are simply confirming that its not the players then, and its about the manager and his philosophy and abilities.
People are taking up the theory that we havent got the players for an effective plan b....its simply not the case.
Are people suggesting that we couldnt play a 442 with Kane further up than Soldado? We havent even tried it, nor have we with Kane and Ade.
When we signed Lamela, here is what AVB said:
"He has played in different positions up front from a young age. When he left River Plate, first he played behind the striker, then on the left, then as a right winger. The experience he has in three positions means he is creative in all three positions."
Why then, is Lamela never, ever deployed as an out and out winger for us? With Chadli or Townsend doing the same on the other side instead of cutting in?
Wingers and full backs overlapping and putting the ball in the box for the two strikers?
How can anyone say we ONLY have the players for his preferred formation?
The simple fact is, he ONLY wants to use that approach, and if we dont have the players on the bench for an effective plan B, well Im afraid the same can be said about the first 11 regarding our plan A.
There are better players in the reserves than are starting in some cases.
If they dont "fit", thats purely down to the manager.
Just gets annoying when suddenly there is a new brief, that we dont have the players for two decent formations so its ok to sideline 7 or 8 players who could have actually helped us win some silverwear.
I dont even think people believe what they are saying. How can anyone say "we dont have the players for a plan b, but yes SAF could make a plan b, but its nothing to do with Poch"
Nonsense
Thats not the point though.
If people are saying Poch needs time with THIS squad to work a plan b, then thats fine and its the manager thats the issue.
But they are saying we dont have the players for a plan b, so its not down to Poch.
It doesnt matter which SAF. We either have the players, or we dont.
If we dont have them, you could mould SAF and Bil Nic into one, and it wouldnt make a blind bit of difference would it......because we dont have the players.
If they could do it, then its down to the ability or willingness of the manger to achieve it.
Can we focus on the plan B bollocks when our plan A is in fact fool proof. 
WIP.
WIP.
If we hire a guy who has a certain style of football in mind it's very difficult to get him to go 4-4-2 Redknapp style, compressed play with counter attacking if plan A doesn't work, it would probably be even a shock to the players if he changed it mid match.
Unfortunatly certain players suits certain managers/systems etc and because we have gone from one manager to the next it shouldn't be that surprising we have a number of player Poch deems surplus to requirements.
We will not know if plan A is all we need until a few years when we have had time to buy and sell and also develop our younger players. It's hard to judge but there must be good reason why Capoue, Ade and Stambouli are on the bench.
Ok now lets step back and remember the mess we made of the place last year, from the 7 signings until the summer just gone, and we all said god he has some work to do, wont be easy.
You bringing up Fergie is an interesting one as it is not too dissimilar to the situation he had when he took over, some players from a pretty unsuccessful era by their standards that had to be moved on that did not suit his plans for the club going forward, even if some were class players.
Yes he could make a plan B, and I think even in Fergies case you would see it season 2 if he inherited the same squad which was underperforming and unsettled. I think the best manager ever would struggle considering there are 5 massive teams and a good Southampton to contend with.
We will never know if those 7 or 8 players could have won us silverware, I am pretty sure Paulinho, Capoue and Kaboul wouldnt have, he is not personal like Sherwood or AVB he would do it for football reasons, Ade was back this weekend, and he seemed mentally fine ready to go, which is good to see.
Just give him the summer and the second season to get the place how he wants it. What he is dealing with is 2 years of prior mismanagement on several levels. So Plan B is definitely a nice to have, and we all hope to see it next year when needed
It doesnt even have to be 442...you mention Redknapp, but even he also had an equally effective 433 and 451.
My belief as to why those players are left out is that the manager feels they are not suitable to his one style of play.