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Ex-Spurs Player Moussa Sissoko

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mikes01666 said:
I don't thing Sissoko is box-to-box. He's currently utilised as a DM that has the pace and strength to break forward and take out opponents. His primary role is to break up opponents attacks.

My point is that if he could score more (and control the ball first time), what a player we would have on our hands.
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Says Sissoko isn't a box-to-box then describes his role, which is that of a box-to-box.

I honestly don't know how some people operate independently.
 
 
mikes01666 said:
I don't thing Sissoko is box-to-box. He's currently utilised as a DM that has the pace and strength to break forward and take out opponents. His primary role is to break up opponent's attacks.

My point is that if he could score more (and control the ball first time), what a player we would have on our hands.
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That I can get behind that you can acknowledge that he doesnt play high up the field. Sure any player adding 10 extra goals would be nice.
 
Stopspot said:
Sissoko is a type of box to box midfielder. But Dele is typically deployed as a secondary striker/raumdeuter. comparable to Thomas Müller

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I love how ever-so-smart football experts have to come up with a special word for "versatile, tactically intelligent attacker playing a free role".

I am a massive Poch tactics fan, but a lot of things will work well when you've got guys like Dele or Jan or Rose who understand the game so well that they just instinctively pop up where needed.

Doubly so when you have Eriksen's and Kyle Walker's whose work rate and athleticism makes them basically a player and a half for coverage purposes.
 
mikes01666 said:
I don't thing Sissoko is box-to-box. He's currently utilised as a DM that has the pace and strength to break forward and take out opponents. His primary role is to break up opponent's attacks.

My point is that if he could score more (and control the ball first time), what a player we would have on our hands.
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He is currently being utilized as a defensive/holding midfielder but he was always considered a winger or when played centrally, a box to box midfielder. He is not good enough to control the tempo or carry water and his strength is running from box to box, making tackles and carrying the ball forward.
 
sammyspurs said:
I find it hilarious that’s bus conductor says Sissoko has the same role as Eriksen.

bus conductor also say Sissoko is shit.

bus conductor also says that Sissoko has similar defensive stats to Eriksen.

bus conductor must also think Eriksen is completely shit for 50% of his duties

Oops
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50% shit is still better than 100% shit.

I win.


Seriously, why do you feel this need to obfuscate and misrepresent everything anyone says to you in a discussion?

I explained pretty well. Drew you a diagram, posted a positional map.

Eriksen and Sissoko don't have identical roles, they have similar remits when we play a certain way, which is the format we have used most often. In those game we almost always dominate the ball, have Winks sitting centrally, deeper, with Sissoko and Eriksen as the lateral 8's.

Both Sissoko and Eriksen will have to do their midfield duties, but both also have a responsibility to progress and transition us from back/midfield to forwards/fb's.

Eriksen and Sissoko are completely different footballers, but when we are dominating the ball, and have three midfielders, it's not Winks and Sissoko as DM's and Eriksen as a lone lopsided 8, is it?


How is that so hard for you to grasp?
 
Stopspot said:
Not to get involed in the Sissoko vs Eriksen argument. But the idea that they have the same defensive stats made me look that up through the club website.

Defensive stats comparisson so far this season between Moussa and Christian:

Moose: 19 clearances, 3 blocks, 13 interceptions. 71,4% success rate for tackles, 48.9% success rate for duels and 51.5% success rate for aerial duels.

Christian: 4 clearances, 3 blocks, 11 interceptions. 60% success rate on tackles, 37.3% on duels and 25.7% on aerial duels.

Now, obviously Moose, while not a clear cut DM has a bigger defensive responsibility than Christian and it shows in the numbers.
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There is no doubting that Sissoko is a stronger boy and better in aerial duels. But don't forget he also played in CM2's, Eriksen has rarely (only on weird in game changes for a handful of minutes) so, as I acknowledged, in the CM format Sissoko will get through more defensive stuff, it's just an obvious outcome due to the change of dynamics of playing a double pivot CM2, as opposed to a CM3. But even in the CM2's we play he's more the box-to-boxer, with Winks, Dier, Wanyama as the more holding role.

But I've also posted their pressure stats in this thread (data analysis by stats bomb which delves a bit deeper than just tackles and interceptions etc) and Eriksen averages 22 pressures game, Sissoko 15, Eriksen pressure regains 4.7, Sissoko 2.7, Eriksen PADJ tackles 2.0, Sissoko 1.3, PADJ Interceptions 0.7, Sissoko 1.0.

You acknowledge yourself, Sissoko is not a DM. All midfielders have to defensive work, as both our sets of data prove. The fact that Sissoko's even compares and in some cases negatively to Eriksen's proves he's not that great at it, because Eriksen certainly isn't renowned for it, even if he does do a bit more of it than Eriksen - which I acknowledge he has.
 
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bus-conductor said:
There is no doubting that Sissoko is a stronger boy and better in aerial duels. But don't forget he also played in CM2's, Eriksen has rarely (only on weird in game changes for a handful of minutes) so, as I acknowledged, in the CM format Sissoko will get through more defensive stuff, it's just an obvious outcome due to the change of dynamics of playing a double pivot CM2, as opposed to a CM3. But even in the CM2's we play he's more the box-to-boxer, with Winks, Dier, Wanyama as the more holding role.

But I've also posted their pressure stats in this thread (data analysis by stats bomb which delves a bit deeper than just tackles and interceptions etc) and Eriksen averages 22 pressures game, Sissoko 15, Eriksen pressure regains 4.7, Sissoko 2.7, Eriksen PADJ tackles 2.0, Sissoko 1.3, PADJ Interceptions 0.7, Sissoko 1.0.

You acknowledge yourself, Sissoko is not a DM. All midfielders have to defensive work, as both our sets of data prove. The fact that Sissoko's even compares and in some cases negatively to Eriksen's proves he's not that great at it, because Eriksen certainly isn't renowned for it, even if he does do a bit more of it than Eriksen - which I acknowledge he has.
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Jesus Buster
Do you know how much of a dick you come across as when you post this nonsensical bullshit?
What a gullible fucker you are. You would swallow any old cock as long as some tosser printed "100% Real Statistic" on it.
 
bus-conductor said:
50% shit is still better than 100% shit.

I win.
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No see you’re not making sense....so caught up in trying to pretend Sissoko is shit you’ve gone full circle, and destroyed yourself.

You’ve made up so much crap you tripped yourself. Look, Sissoko can’t be shit 100% of the time, if he’s absolutely trouncing Eriksen when it comes to defensive duties. Because you think Eriksen is the most productive CM in England.

I stopped reading when you predictably started to change your stance about their roles....suddenly they don’t have the same role, yet you’ve been saying they have for the last month.

Right up until Sissokos defensive contribution smashed Eriksen out the ball park.
 
sammyspurs said:
No see you’re not making sense....so caught up in trying to pretend Sissoko is shit you’ve gone full circle, and destroyed yourself.

You’ve made up so much crap you tripped yourself. Look, Sissoko can’t be shit 100% of the time, if he’s absolutely trouncing Eriksen when it comes to defensive duties. Because you think Eriksen is the most productive CM in England.

I stopped reading when you predictably started to change your stance about their roles....suddenly they don’t have the same role, yet you’ve been saying they have for the last month.

Right up until Sissokos defensive contribution smashed Eriksen out the ball park.
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You could just admit you were wrong about him being a DM and save us all pages of your tedious straw man bollocks.
 
bus-conductor said:
You could just admit you were wrong about him being a DM and save us all pages of your tedious straw man bollocks.
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Ok he’s a box to box with defensive duties
I was wrong that he’s a DM. Changes little but I’m glad you’re happy.

However......you said he has the same role as Eriksen which makes Eriksen a box to box with defensive duties. And defensively Sissoko is trouncing him.

For me it’s not an attack on Eriksen as he’s clearly a deep lying playmaker.
For you, who thinks they have the same role, you’ve cornered yourself into having to admit that Sissoko is doing a much better job defending, while Eriksen is doing a much better job attacking.
Now, as they play the “same position”, surely that means Eriksen is getting destroyed by a pub player for half of his duties. In your head.

Oh that’s right, they don’t play the same position anymore, because the stats fucked you up
 
Champions League winners and losers - Football365

Moussa Sissoko
He’s not just playing well, he’s leading Tottenham when they need him most. Sissoko’s run of excellent form has gone on so long that he now merits a complete reevaluation. No longer is he a disaster signing clawing back some goodwill, but a player who struggled badly before showing his real game. Fair bloody play.

Amazing how everyone is so wrong about Sissoko, and bus conductor is the only person in England who really understands football
 
sammyspurs said:
Ok he’s a box to box with defensive duties
I was wrong that he’s a DM. Changes little but I’m glad you’re happy.

However......you said he has the same role as Eriksen which makes Eriksen a box to box with defensive duties. And defensively Sissoko is trouncing him.

For me it’s not an attack on Eriksen as he’s clearly a deep lying playmaker.
For you, who thinks they have the same role, you’ve cornered yourself into having to admit that Sissoko is doing a much better job defending, while Eriksen is doing a much better job attacking.
Now, as they play the “same position”, surely that means Eriksen is getting destroyed by a pub player for half of his duties. In your head.

Oh that’s right, they don’t play the same position anymore, because the stats fucked you up
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So not content with talking bollocks about Sissoko, you’re now doubling down with “Eriksen” is a deep lying playmaker?

He isn’t. In the CM3 he plays as an 8, with Winks as the deeper player, when we play cm2, Eriksen plays as a 10/ACM who drops in as an 8. He is the closest we have to a playmaker, but apart from the very rare occasion whenPoch gets desperate and drops him into a cm2 late in games, you could never call him a “deep” one.

As ever, who can’t argue your own position, because it’s bollocks, you just relentlessly misconstrue what I have said so you can at least argue something different.

I said when we play the format we have played most often, the 4312, they both have a similar remit, as 8’s either side of Winks.

I acknowledge that if Sissoko plays in a cm2, that remit alters. Any double pivot will have to get through more defensive work than as an 8 in a cm3. That’s just simple maths and dynamics.

As for Sissoko destroying Eriksen defensively. The actual numbers behind those big “percentages” equate to Sissoko 1.2 tackles per game, Eriksen 1.2 tackles per game, Sissoko 0.6 interceptions, Eriksen 0.4.

My point was never how good Eriksen is at tackling, it’s that he’s not, it’s the weakest part of his game, that’s my point, but Sissoko is ultimately not even doing it more than Eriksen. And if we delve deeper and look at pressure events, Eriksen actually outperforms Sissoko.

It may get an ooh everytime Sissoko crunches that big frame into a tackle or bowls forwards through an oppo once a game, but the bottom line is he’s not really proficient at anything.

Compare him with Kante, a dm who is now playing a almost identical remit as a right sided 8 in a cm3, Kante has 3 goals, 4 assists, double the key passes, double the tackles, double the interceptions.

You’d expect Kante to better defensively, but he’s much better than Sissoko offensively too. Despite being a defensive player by nature.
 
bus-conductor said:
So not content with talking bollocks about Sissoko, you’re now doubling down with “Eriksen” is a deep lying playmaker?

He isn’t. In the CM3 he plays as an 8, with Winks as the deeper player, when we play cm2, Eriksen plays as a 10/ACM who drops in as an 8. He is the closest we have to a playmaker, but apart from the very rare occasion whenPoch gets desperate and drops him into a cm2 late in games, you could never call him a “deep” one.

As ever, who can’t argue your own position, because it’s bollocks, you just relentlessly misconstrue what I have said so you can at least argue something different.

I said when we play the format we have played most often, the 4312, they both have a similar remit, as 8’s either side of Winks.

I acknowledge that if Sissoko plays in a cm2, that remit alters. Any double pivot will have to get through more defensive work than as an 8 in a cm3. That’s just simple maths and dynamics.

As for Sissoko destroying Eriksen defensively. The actual numbers behind those big “percentages” equate to Sissoko 1.2 tackles per game, Eriksen 1.2 tackles per game, Sissoko 0.6 interceptions, Eriksen 0.4.

My point was never how good Eriksen is at tackling, it’s that he’s not, it’s the weakest part of his game, that’s my point, but Sissoko is ultimately not even doing it more than Eriksen. And if we delve deeper and look at pressure events, Eriksen actually outperforms Sissoko.

It may get an ooh everytime Sissoko crunches that big frame into a tackle or bowls forwards through an oppo once a game, but the bottom line is he’s not really proficient at anything.

Compare him with Kante, a dm who is now playing a almost identical remit as a right sided 8 in a cm3, Kante has 3 goals, 4 assists, double the key passes, double the tackles, double the interceptions.

You’d expect Kante to better defensively, but he’s much better than Sissoko offensively too. Despite being a defensive player by nature.
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You said they had the same role.
Sissoko trounces him defensively.

Now they have different roles.
Very predictable

You write a lot, it doesn’t make it valuable.
Try substance over masses of words.

Shot you’re bollocks here I’m afraid. It matters not one jot what title either player has. You said they had the same job.

That’s the only laughable thing in the whole thing. “Sissoko is a DM, Eriksen is a deep lying play maker”....maybe incorrect, maybe not. Who cares.

“Sissoko and Eriksen play the same position”
Errrrr no.
 
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