-
The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...
Ex-Spurs Player Moussa Sissoko
- Thread starter The Fighting Cock
- Start date
Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports
Moussa Sissoko is so posh that he has a cupboard for his toilet rolls.
He’s so posh he gets out of the bath to have a piss
You guys think I have some kind of irrational dislike of Sissoko. I don't. I just know he's not a very good footballer, and his contribution is not good enough, and it certainly isn't as good as you guys like to portray.
You guys (and some others) say stuff like "he breaks up play" or "he was outstanding" but you can't quality what you are saying with anything substantive.
I just don't buy into your "narrative". I don't think he's actually doing things you claim, and he's certainly not doing anything to a high standard.
To back my opinion up, here is some performance data put together by football analysts Statsbomb:
Now here's one for Eriksen
Here's Winks:
I keep hearing about how great Sissoko is at breaking up play, but he really isn't.
Ive posted before raw tackle and intercept data that shows how poor Sissoko's bare output actually is. There are 11 players in our squad that average more tackles, and a further 2 (Eriksen and Son FFS) who average the same. There are 14 players in our squad that average more interceptions per game.
But that's very raw numbers and I accept they don't tell the whole story. If you look at the data above, that analyse every "event" in every game in more detail and check the defensive aspects - Pressure/Pressure regains/Pressure Adjusted Tackles and Padj Interceptions - you'll see just how fucking poor Sissoko's defensive contribution actually is.
He's pressuring/pressing much less than Eriksen (hardly a tenacious stalwart) and Winks (a player continually criticised for his defensive game).
So if he's not great defensively, there's going to be a massive offensive payoff right? ...............Wrong
As we all know he completes a couple of dribbles a game. The data confirm this. But they amount to very little productivity. He has one assist all season. KWP in one game managed 3. In less than half the minutes Lamela has 2. Even Aurier's got 2. And Sissoko's even played as an AM for some of that time.
His key pass average (0.7) is the 12th best in our squad. Only our Goalies, DM's and CB's have worse key pass ratios.
If you compare him to Eriksen, the player playing the left sided role in our CM3 (1+2) system, Eriksen rarely dribbles, but sees more of the ball, and also creates a shit load more 7 assists, 4 goals and ave 1.6 key passes.
But look at the Statsbomb data too which delves deeper (measuring quality as well as pure quantity - XG), the quality of his chance creation works out at just over a tenth (0.12) of a chance per game, and even the pre-pre-asists Sissoko's stats are piss poor, almost on par with Winks, who's been playing as the holding midfielder.
This is his remit. He's playing as an "8". He's bringing virtually nothing offensively.
So
BangkokSpud
- breathtaking, stunning, astounding, astonishing - he definitely, unequivocally is not.He's doing really basic, routine stuff, not defending particularly well, certainly not exceptionally, creating hardly anything, not even much in pre build up (only a fraction more than Winks our holder). But a couple of times a game he'll charge up field and everyone will go oooooh "Majestic".
Here's what "really good" looks like from a right side CM paying the same CM3 remit as Sissoko:
Last edited:
This has been brewing for a few seasons now as the two seemed to have good chemistry on and off the field from the getgo. I don't think I can say Sons played a big role in Sissoko's turn around, but I am sure it didn't hurt.
Surely no-one here thinks Sissoko is a long term solution to a team trying to be the best?
He has definitely improved massively, but he's still found wanting when it comes to the basics.
The guy has a huge work rate, is a top athlete, but his technical ability is about League 1 standard.
I hope Poch doesn't have him in his long term plans. Because he doesn't rank anywhere near a world class midfielder.
He has definitely improved massively, but he's still found wanting when it comes to the basics.
The guy has a huge work rate, is a top athlete, but his technical ability is about League 1 standard.
I hope Poch doesn't have him in his long term plans. Because he doesn't rank anywhere near a world class midfielder.
You guys think I have some kind of irrational dislike of Sissoko. I don't. I just know he's not a very good footballer, and his contribution is not good enough, and it certainly isn't as good as you guys like to portray.
You guys (and some others) say stuff like "he breaks up play" or "he was outstanding" but you can't quality what you are saying with anything substantive.
I just don't buy into your "narrative". I don't think he's actually doing things you claim, and he's certainly not doing anything to a high standard.
To back my opinion up, here is some performance data put together by football analysts Statsbomb:
Now here's one for Eriksen
Here's Winks:
I keep hearing about how great Sissoko is at breaking up play, but he really isn't.
Ive posted before raw tackle and intercept data that shows how poor Sissoko's bare output actually is. There are 11 players in our squad that average more tackles, and a further 2 (Eriksen and Son FFS) who average the same. There are 14 players in our squad that average more interceptions per game.
But that's very raw numbers and I accept they don't tell the whole story. If you look at the data above, that analyse every "event" in every game in more detail and check the defensive aspects - Pressure/Pressure regains/Pressure Adjusted Tackles and Padj Interceptions - you'll see just how fucking poor Sissoko's defensive contribution actually is.
He's pressuring/pressing much less than Eriksen (hardly a tenacious stalwart) and Winks (a player continually criticised for his defensive game).
So if he's not great defensively, there's going to be a massive offensive payoff right? ...............Wrong
As we all know he completes a couple of dribbles a game. The data confirm this. But they amount to very little productivity. He has one assist all season. KWP in one game managed 3. In less than half the minutes Lamela has 2. Even Aurier's got 2. And Sissoko's even played as an AM for some of that time.
His key pass average is the 12th best in our squad. Only our Goalies, DM's and CB's have worse key pass ratios.
If you compare him to Eriksen, the player playing the left sided role in our CM3 (1+2) system, Eriksen rarely dribbles, but sees more of the ball, and also creates a shit load more 7 assists, 4 goals and ave 1.6 key passes.
But look at the Statsbomb data too which delves deeper (measuring quality as well as pure quantity - XG), the quality of his chance creation works out at just over a tenth of a chance per game, and even the pre-pre-asists Sissoko's stats are piss poor, almost on par with Winks, who's been playing as the holding midfielder.
This is his remit. He's playing as an "8". He's bringing virtually nothing offensively.
So
He's doing really basic, routine stuff, not defending particularly well, certainly not exceptionally, creating hardly anything, not even much in pre build up (only a fraction more than Winks our holder). But a couple of times a game he'll charge up field and everyone will go oooooh "Majestic".
Here's what "really good" looks like from a right side CM paying the same CM3 remit as Sissoko:
ochfacepalm:
Well buddy. You are factually wrong.
He plays in the Premier League ergo he is a good footballer. You don't end up in the Prem without being good, and the few flukes end up being found out and shipped off quickly. Sissoko has been in this league for years now. He obviously holds Premier League standard. The thing is he doesn't have a playing style that you like. That much is obvious. And most on here will admit that he doesn't play flashy or beautiful football, but it works. And most of us on here are happy for him for finding his groove and making it work. We want all players that play for Spurs to do well.
You on the other hand seem to spend every match thread and post-match thread dissecting everything he "does wrong" in an attempt to make us dislike him. You not liking him or his style of play is perfectly fine. We all have different players and playing styles that we gravitate towards.
Even you who don't like him should be happy that he is doing well because players that do well are more likely to attract attention from other clubs.
Last edited:
Well said Sir
Quite simply he fulfills the role Poch wants him to play and even if Big Vic and Dier get fit again which I hope they do I can’t see Sissoko losing his place in the side
Love the guy, his athleticism, attitude and energy
Most of Blakey’s posts are quite informative and interesting until Sissoko is mentioned and then he goes off on one
It’s quite bizarre
I mentioned the CL game against Inter
If it wasn’t for Sissoko making a fantastic run into their half and into their box we would have been dumped out of the competition because we didn’t look like scoring otherwise
Yes. That’s it. Ignore real cold hard evidence that indicate his poor level of performance. Because your alternative “fact” that disproves this is that “no poor players ever play in the PL”.
You’re right, they do get found out. Often evidenced by them being relegated. Oh hang on....
I would suggest that the reasons we are still seeing seeing him is that our manager insisted we purchase him for 55m in fees and wages, then couldn’t get anyone to take him off our hands at even knockdown price and now has a midfield crisis partly due to the fact that he couldn’t buy anyone in the summer because he’d spent all the money on non hg duds lie Sissoko.
My allegiance is to Spurs, not any one player. If I can see a player not doing a very good job for Spurs, that concerns me more than how I’m perceived by that players fan club.
Ignore every piece of evidence if you want. Believe what you want. Fairies, Father Christmas and Sissoko. I’m more in to realism myself.
Just fuck off already. You bore me with your stupid posts.You guys think I have some kind of irrational dislike of Sissoko. I don't. I just know he's not a very good footballer, and his contribution is not good enough, and it certainly isn't as good as you guys like to portray.
You guys (and some others) say stuff like "he breaks up play" or "he was outstanding" but you can't quality what you are saying with anything substantive.
I just don't buy into your "narrative". I don't think he's actually doing things you claim, and he's certainly not doing anything to a high standard.
To back my opinion up, here is some performance data put together by football analysts Statsbomb:
Now here's one for Eriksen
Here's Winks:
I keep hearing about how great Sissoko is at breaking up play, but he really isn't.
Ive posted before raw tackle and intercept data that shows how poor Sissoko's bare output actually is. There are 11 players in our squad that average more tackles, and a further 2 (Eriksen and Son FFS) who average the same. There are 14 players in our squad that average more interceptions per game.
But that's very raw numbers and I accept they don't tell the whole story. If you look at the data above, that analyse every "event" in every game in more detail and check the defensive aspects - Pressure/Pressure regains/Pressure Adjusted Tackles and Padj Interceptions - you'll see just how fucking poor Sissoko's defensive contribution actually is.
He's pressuring/pressing much less than Eriksen (hardly a tenacious stalwart) and Winks (a player continually criticised for his defensive game).
So if he's not great defensively, there's going to be a massive offensive payoff right? ...............Wrong
As we all know he completes a couple of dribbles a game. The data confirm this. But they amount to very little productivity. He has one assist all season. KWP in one game managed 3. In less than half the minutes Lamela has 2. Even Aurier's got 2. And Sissoko's even played as an AM for some of that time.
His key pass average (0.7) is the 12th best in our squad. Only our Goalies, DM's and CB's have worse key pass ratios.
If you compare him to Eriksen, the player playing the left sided role in our CM3 (1+2) system, Eriksen rarely dribbles, but sees more of the ball, and also creates a shit load more 7 assists, 4 goals and ave 1.6 key passes.
But look at the Statsbomb data too which delves deeper (measuring quality as well as pure quantity - XG), the quality of his chance creation works out at just over a tenth (0.12) of a chance per game, and even the pre-pre-asists Sissoko's stats are piss poor, almost on par with Winks, who's been playing as the holding midfielder.
This is his remit. He's playing as an "8". He's bringing virtually nothing offensively.
So
He's doing really basic, routine stuff, not defending particularly well, certainly not exceptionally, creating hardly anything, not even much in pre build up (only a fraction more than Winks our holder). But a couple of times a game he'll charge up field and everyone will go oooooh "Majestic".
Here's what "really good" looks like from a right side CM paying the same CM3 remit as Sissoko:
:vertna:
Bitch please
Just thinking about Sissoko, how funny is it that every single Spurs fan on the planet didn't rate him yetBazali stuck to his guns. Bazali is literally the only fan in the world who can actually say I told you so.
Moussa has actually moved mountains to get to where he is in our shirt. Still needs to improve but has there ever been such a resurgence in our colours? Absolute warhorse!
Bitch please
Last edited:
So Newcastle getting relegated was all on Sissoko? Not on every other thing that was wrong at that club at the time?
You guys think I have some kind of irrational dislike of Sissoko. I don't. I just know he's not a very good footballer, and his contribution is not good enough, and it certainly isn't as good as you guys like to portray.
You guys (and some others) say stuff like "he breaks up play" or "he was outstanding" but you can't quality what you are saying with anything substantive.
I just don't buy into your "narrative". I don't think he's actually doing things you claim, and he's certainly not doing anything to a high standard.
To back my opinion up, here is some performance data put together by football analysts Statsbomb:
Now here's one for Eriksen
Here's Winks:
I keep hearing about how great Sissoko is at breaking up play, but he really isn't.
Ive posted before raw tackle and intercept data that shows how poor Sissoko's bare output actually is. There are 11 players in our squad that average more tackles, and a further 2 (Eriksen and Son FFS) who average the same. There are 14 players in our squad that average more interceptions per game.
But that's very raw numbers and I accept they don't tell the whole story. If you look at the data above, that analyse every "event" in every game in more detail and check the defensive aspects - Pressure/Pressure regains/Pressure Adjusted Tackles and Padj Interceptions - you'll see just how fucking poor Sissoko's defensive contribution actually is.
He's pressuring/pressing much less than Eriksen (hardly a tenacious stalwart) and Winks (a player continually criticised for his defensive game).
So if he's not great defensively, there's going to be a massive offensive payoff right? ...............Wrong
As we all know he completes a couple of dribbles a game. The data confirm this. But they amount to very little productivity. He has one assist all season. KWP in one game managed 3. In less than half the minutes Lamela has 2. Even Aurier's got 2. And Sissoko's even played as an AM for some of that time.
His key pass average (0.7) is the 12th best in our squad. Only our Goalies, DM's and CB's have worse key pass ratios.
If you compare him to Eriksen, the player playing the left sided role in our CM3 (1+2) system, Eriksen rarely dribbles, but sees more of the ball, and also creates a shit load more 7 assists, 4 goals and ave 1.6 key passes.
But look at the Statsbomb data too which delves deeper (measuring quality as well as pure quantity - XG), the quality of his chance creation works out at just over a tenth (0.12) of a chance per game, and even the pre-pre-asists Sissoko's stats are piss poor, almost on par with Winks, who's been playing as the holding midfielder.
This is his remit. He's playing as an "8". He's bringing virtually nothing offensively.
So
He's doing really basic, routine stuff, not defending particularly well, certainly not exceptionally, creating hardly anything, not even much in pre build up (only a fraction more than Winks our holder). But a couple of times a game he'll charge up field and everyone will go oooooh "Majestic".
Here's what "really good" looks like from a right side CM paying the same CM3 remit as Sissoko:
I think this is a well-written and informative post BC. I don't really understand the abuse it has generated.
Q: How reliable are those Statsbomb star charts? Are they entirely consistent and uniform? Do other companies produce other versions that tell different stories? Or are they, within the terms of the individual indicators, an absolute 'truth'?
We cannot bring in 7 new players as we all know that does not work. We were 1 homegrown player light when squads announced in September. Dembele is going Wanyama needs replacing, Toby could be going Llorente going, Vorm probably going and Eriksen's contract still a problem. That is more than enough. No one else, Sissoko, Trippier, Winks or anyone else not considered good enough should go. Now if Wanyama or Dembele's replacements are good enough Sissoko will revert to back up but that remains to be seen and for now he is needed.
i prefer judging players using my eyes. stats are too specific. a tackle and breaking up play overlap but thy're not the same. there's no stat for "pressed a player forcing him to retreat or play a misplaced pass", but thats every bit as important in breaking up play as an interception or tackle.
Our American friends will have a much deeper appreciation of this but, whilst useful, be wary of stats. They’ve been obsessed with sports stats long before we really got hold of them, particularly in assessing potential college athletes before they go into the NFL / NBA etc. FG %, pass completion rates, rushing yards and so on. The NFL combine in fact is a very good example of how players are assessed to the nth degree...but it’s widely acknowledged that it doesn’t mean that much. The best wide receiver is rarely the fastest, and the best lineman is rarely the strongest. Hence why you often hear about the ‘eyeball’ test, and people here banging on about ‘going to games’.
Yes of course a 30 goal a season striker is an excellent one, and a 5 goal a season one is poor, but there’s pretty diminishing returns when you’re getting into 6.7 tackles made per ....etc.
Lamela against Chelsea was a good example. Our ballet player Eriksen couldn’t get time on the ball, Winks was clearly tired and Alli had too much to do. Lamela comes on looking like a coked up dingo, flies into a few challenges, charges about shouting at everyone, levels Hazard and gets straight on the ball. Up goes the energy level, and magically we start to get back on the front foot a bit. There’s much more to sport than yards covered and passing percentages.
EDIT: I love stats, just saying, big pinch of salt
P.S. with the point being, along with Gazza’s saves, I think the introduction of Lamela saved us that game as we were getting beat up. I doubt Lamela’s stats look anything special tho
I wish I cared about anything as much as this, I couldn’t even write that much about my own daughter!
The guys at Statsbomb do this for a living. As well as selling their models and data to other related industry clients, they work for clubs (including PSG right now I think) on various facets of performance and scouting analytics.
They would be producing much more than these radars for clients, they are just a nicely packaged format that gives a bit more depth than the usual "tackles" "key passes" etc.
Most clubs - even lower down - are using analytics now for performance and recruitment. As they should.
GDN
This old "use my eyes" chestnut. We all use our eyes. Analysts and scouts also use their eyes. But unless you have the ability to mathematically calculate a vast number of actions, outcomes and their ramifications, how they effect the dynamics around them etc etc, your eyes won't tell you enough.
We all use our eyes, but our eyes have a habit of telling us what we want them to tell us. We don't notice the things that contradict our pre-conceived notion but focus on anything that supports what we want to be true. Humans are brilliant at this. It's called confirmation bias.
I've pointed out numerous examples of Sissoko doing things badly. Real things in real time. Often in the same game. But I get accused of having an agenda and that he is in fact MOTM...again....
So, I've highlighted real incidents - seen with my eyes and typed with my hands - but Ive now also provided actual in depth data that supports my eyes and my opinion.
If your eyes are still telling you that Sissoko is actually really good at stuff, and doing lots of it, then I'd suggest a big drop of Optrex.
Last edited: