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Col_McCafferty said:
It's a stupid argument, nobody is doubting Messi's talent and importance to Barca BUT the club was pretty big and successful before he emerged on the scene and will likely to do so when he leaves.
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I thought they were in a slump for a bit...
Edit: from 2000, that is what I recall. I was playing a lot of championship manager back then.
 
Col_McCafferty said:
It's a stupid argument, nobody is doubting Messi's talent and importance to Barca BUT the club was pretty big and successful before he emerged on the scene and will likely to do so when he leaves.
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Oh absolutely, they are a hugely successful club. But Real I think were more dominant during the period running up to Messi's emergence (certainly in terms of the CL), and I thought that was what his post reflected.

Messi certainly dragged Barca to another level.
 
Barmby said:
Oh absolutely, they are a hugely successful club. But Real I think were more dominant during the period running up to Messi's emergence (certainly in terms of the CL), and I thought that was what his post reflected.

Messi certainly dragged Barca to another level.
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Was it just him though? Pep not a reason n behind this? Players like Xavi and Iniesta? Neymar and Suarez?

Not saying Messi isn't a great but some people talk as if they were a pile of crap until he turned up and will return to their former start once he leaves.

I find it to be incredibly disrespectful to all the other players that they've had over the past decade and a half not to mention Guardiola himself.

Anyway, Barca are out and PSG are through and the new stars are Mbappe and Haaland, Messi and Ronaldo are the past.
 
Col_McCafferty said:
Was it just him though? Pep not a reason n behind this? Players like Xavi and Iniesta? Neymar and Suarez?

Not saying Messi isn't a great but some people talk as if they were a pile of crap until he turned up and will return to their former start once he leaves.

I find it to be incredibly disrespectful to all the other players that they've had over the past decade and a half not to mention Guardiola himself.

Anyway, Barca are out and PSG are through and the new stars are Mbappe and Haaland, Messi and Ronaldo are the past.
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They all get the credit. But I think the addition of a player like Messi makes a vital difference. It's why City tried to buy him. These clubs need CL wins, domestic success isn't doing much for them. It's why Juventus bought Ronaldo, looking for that extra difference. Although that hasn't worked. Barca with Messi went from 1 CL to 5, with the support of many other greats. But I think it's reasonable to argue that Messi was the extra spark.

Barcelona have been great for decades. I still get slightly giddy about Hristo Stoichkov.
 
Barmby said:
They all get the credit. But I think the addition of a player like Messi makes a vital difference. It's why City tried to buy him. These clubs need CL wins, domestic success isn't doing much for them. It's why Juventus bought Ronaldo, looking for that extra difference. Although that hasn't worked. Barca with Messi went from 1 CL to 5, with the support of many other greats. But I think it's reasonable to argue that Messi was the extra spark.

Barcelona have been great for decades. I still get slightly giddy about Hristo Stoichkov.
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No they went from 2 to 5, Messi had very little impact in their 2006 success.

Anyway, the argument is they need to move on from him. He can't play forever after all.
 
Barmby said:
Oh absolutely, they are a hugely successful club. But Real I think were more dominant during the period running up to Messi's emergence (certainly in terms of the CL), and I thought that was what his post reflected.

Messi certainly dragged Barca to another level.
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Real Madrid have won more CLs than Barca during peak Messi
 
Stopspot said:
16 La Liga
24 Copa Del Rey
5 Supercopas + 3 Copa Eva Duarte (the forerunner)
2 Copa de La Liga
1 Champions Leage/European cup
4 Cup winners cups
3 Inter Cities Fairs Cups (a now dead tournament, the same trophy is now used for the Europa League)
2 Super Cups

This is Barca's trophy haul before the arrival of Messi. Not counting regional tournaments in Catalonia or pre season tournaments.

Just for the sake of the argument.

Someone else has to go through wikipedia and count how many they have won since he debuted in 2004.
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The other thing that needs to be taken into account in respect of Barcelona's Champions League trophies prior Messi, is that for the majority of that time they were not in it, as only 1 entrant per country, usually Real Madrid, hence their large amount of ECWC wins, as that and UEFA/Inter City Fairs were the European competitions they usually competed in.

They were probably actually in the competition on more occasions during Messi's time at the club, than they were in all of the rest of their history.
 
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cretinousgoat said:
Really hope Olympiakos kick seven shades of shit out of the scum tonight.
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Agreed I'm absolutely terrified of an us-Scum final.


Go ahead and mock my cowardice!

Wizard Of Oz Dorothy GIF
 
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