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Management Players vs Manager

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Who do you back?

  • Players

    Votes: 22 56.4%

  • Manager

    Votes: 17 43.6%
  • Total voters
    39
VonnegutBusy said:
I don't think there is much more to see from Vinnie. He's fine as a deputy against lesser opposition but will never have the quality to break into the first team.

Bergjwin still has room to improve but he has been shocking this season lets be honest.
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Bergwijn has but when he first came you clearly see the talent, great close control, speed, power, looked like he had something about him. Now he looks scared, as do many of our players, that comes from the manager and the atmosphere. We have little in the way of attacking patterns, I have seen lower league teams look more inventive then us.

Get the manager out, being in someone like Poch who can coach attacking football, work out who is trouble or not good enough then make sales.
 
Tomo said:
Bergwijn has but when he first came you clearly see the talent, great close control, speed, power, looked like he had something about him. Now he looks scared, as do many of our players, that comes from the manager and the atmosphere. We have little in the way of attacking patterns, I have seen lower league teams look more inventive then us.

Get the manager out, being in someone like Poch who can coach attacking football, work out who is trouble or not good enough then make sales.
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Not advocating the sale of any fairly recent signings (except Doherty) as they should be given more time but the core of shit has to go regardless of who's in charge. They failed Poch and they failed Mourinho, we don't need them around for another season.
 
VonnegutBusy said:
I don't think there is much more to see from Vinnie. He's fine as a deputy against lesser opposition but will never have the quality to break into the first team.

Bergjwin still has room to improve but he has been shocking this season lets be honest.
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You cannot judge any player on this season and decide they should go on the back of it.
The tactics employed and lack of training have totally thrown all our players apart from Son and Kane under the bus.

A competent manager needs to assess that, and that is not Jose, nor any of TFC brains.
The only player that I believe does not have a place ongoing would be Doherty, but even then only if new manager plans on playing 4 rather than 5 at the back. until we get that manager comes in and gets us playing to our best rather than weakest attributes the getting rid of a load of players that were good enough to get us to continual Top 4 places and a CL final is way too presumpsious.

You are just not taking into account the complete fuck up Jose has caused running through this squad. Good players don;t all turn shit at the same time, overnight.
 
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Trotter said:
You cannot judge any player on this season and decide they should go on the back of it.
The tactics employed and lack of training have totally thrown all our players apart from Son and Kane under the bus.
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What do you disagree with? You think Vinicius will force his way into the starting XI?

Like I said keep Vini around if Benfica accept 10m but he will not become a top premier league striker. Bergjwin can have another shot.

Calling for the sales of Sissoko, Winks, Dele etc. is by no means based on this season alone. We have a large group of players who have been shit for a good while and should have been moved on. It's now emerged that they are causing dressing room unrest too - get rid.
 
VonnegutBusy said:
What do you disagree with? You think Vinicius will force his way into the starting XI?

Like I said keep Vini around if Benfica accept 10m but he will not become a top premier league striker. Bergjwin can have another shot.

Calling for the sales of Sissoko, Winks, Dele etc. is by no means based on this season alone. We have a large group of players who have been shit for a good while and should have been moved on. It's now emerged that they are causing dressing room unrest too - get rid.
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Or has it now emerged that Mourinho has caused the dressing room unrest, like he has at EVERY club he has been at.

The constant isn't that players that for last few years have continually got us into Champions League are all now shit, the constant is that at Chelsea (x2), Real Madrid, Man Utd, Inter Milan and now Tottenham, Mourinho has created a toxic divide in the dressing room, and after his departure players he was toxic against improved and thrived at the same club.
You cannot judge any of our "squad players" based on their time with Mourinho, he is toxic to the core, and has been the worst manager we have had since Terry Neill (50 years ago) and actually may have done more damage than even he did. May actually be considered by Spurs fans, with good justification as the worst manager in our history.
 
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Trotter said:
Or has it now emerged that Mourinho has caused the dressing room unrest, like he has at EVERY club he has been at.

The constant isn't that players that for last few years have continually got us into Champions League are all now shit, the constant is that at Chelsea (x2), Real Madrid, Man Utd, Inter Milan and now Tottenham, Mourinho has created a toxic divide in the dressing room, and after his departure players he was toxic against improved and thrived at the same club.
You cannot judge any of our "squad players" based on their time with Mourinho, he is toxic to the core, and has been the worst manager we have had since Terry Neill (50 years ago) and actually may have done more damage than even he did. May actually be considered by Spurs fans, with good justification as the worst manager in our history.
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Can you not read?

I said clearly my view is not based on this season alone or last season either. This is not about Mourinho's time. These players turned to shit at the end for Poch too - hence his sacking.

Dele has been poor for 2 years at least. Winks the same. Sissoko had one good season 3 years ago or whatever it was.

Once again: I am not judging these players solely on their performances under Mourinho but also what came before.

Are you seriously trying to say that all of squad players are good enough and none need to be moved on?

Really didn't think I was making a controversial point...
 
Not a case of me not reading, but more that You are totally contradicting yourself.

Dele has been poor for 2 years ? Well he was injured for the period of last season that Poch was here, so you are therefore totally judging him on the period that Mourinho has been here and ostracized him. His numbers, still stood up in all of the prior seasons under Poch.

Winks, I will give you, have never rated, although gone significantly backwards under Mourinho, like almost every player we have, could still have a use at the club depending on how he would be deployed.

Sissoko was second in our player of the season vote behind Son in 2018/19, so 2 seasons ago. So again you are judging TOTALLY on his time under Mourinho. despite saying you are not.

And as I have said NO player, NOT ONE can be judged based on the last 2 seasons, due to the total clusterfuck that has been Mourinho, and his tactics.


And yes, I am seriously saying that no member of our squad (with possible exception of Doherty if new manager plans on playing a back 4) should definitely be moved on, until they are judged and utilised by a competent manager, which we have not had for the period you are solely judging the players on.
And the sooner we start that process the better.
 
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Trotter said:
Not a case of me not reading, but more that You are totally contradicting yourself.

Dele has been poor for 2 years ? Well he was injured for the period of last season that Poch was here, so you are therefore totally judging him on the period that Mourinho has been here and ostracized him. His numbers, still stood up in all of the prior seasons under Poch.

Winks, I will give you, have never rated, although gone significantly backwards under Mourinho, like almost every player we have, could still have a use at the club depending on how he would be deployed.

Sissoko was second in our player of the season vote behind Son in 2018/19, so 2 seasons ago. So again you are judging TOTALLY on his time under Mourinho. despite saying you are not.

And as I have said NO player, NOT ONE can be judged based on the last 2 seasons, due to the total clusterfuck that has been Mourinho, and his tactics.


And yes, I am seriously saying that no member of our squad (with possible exception of Doherty if new manager plans on playing a back 4) should definitely be moved on, until they are judged and utilised by a competent manager, which we have not had for the period you are solely judging the players on.
And the sooner we start that process the better.
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Complete nonsense.

Jose's infamous "Dele's brother" quip when he arrived is an example that the narrative around Dele was one of underperformance before Jose got here. "Can Jose get him back to his best?" Were what pundits were saying. I guess I was too generous with 2 years - seems like he's been shit for 3-4 then, you've strengthened my point.

If you think the way we progress as a club is by keeping Sissoko then you're a bigger dope then I first assumed. Nothing else to say.
 
VonnegutBusy said:
Complete nonsense.

Jose's infamous "Dele's brother" quip when he arrived is an example that the narrative around Dele was one of underperformance before Jose got here. "Can Jose get him back to his best?" Were what pundits were saying. I guess I was too generous with 2 years - seems like he's been shit for 3-4 then, you've strengthened my point.

If you think the way we progress as a club is by keeping Sissoko then you're a bigger dope then I first assumed. Nothing else to say.
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But you have already shown what a dope you are over last year or so by being one of the few banging the "Jose is our saviour gong" despite everything happening in front of your eyes logically pointing to the complete opposite.

Nothing else to say really.

I will allow a competent manager, assuming Levy appoints one, judge our players, not an incompetent poster on a Spurs forum.
 
How is this a question? Mourinho vs players has happened at every club he’s been. Which is the common denominator.

And I’m not saying the players are faultless. But if it’s phrased one or the other, it’s clear who has a history of this.
 
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Jose will be the one to fall but there are a few players I never wanna see play for us again.

I'm usually a glass is half full guy. I'll defend most players but whoever are the ones Hugo had in mind during his interview can leave tonight
 
I don't back either right now.
I said there were some issues with players being toxic back when Poch was here. There are a few exceptions, but overall they're a spineless bunch who should be ashamed of themselves for last night. We needed a full squad rebuild before Poch left and last night highlighted that we're still in need of that rebuild. All we've done so far is pad the squad out with a few more players which has made things worse.
I backed José at the start as I could see why Levy thought he was worth a punt, but it hasn't worked out. I said at the time that if José can't sort this bunch out and turn them into winners then nobody can.
Time for a clean slate on both.
 
[QUOTE="Trotter, post: 27846

I think it is totally unfair to judge any player on the period Mourinho has been manager.
[/QUOTE]

I used to hate Jose so much when he was with the Chavs, I wasnt pleased when he joined us but I thought I’d give him a chance because we needed to win something.....so I think I can sense how you feel about him. But how can you not see that the players are not beyond blame in this. It was clear that most couldn’t be bothered on Sunday against a shite Woolwich team, they had that shocker and then did the same y’day !!! Lloris in his post match interview alluded to problems with some of the players. Go further back & they downed tools on Poch too.
The manager and most of the players are at fault. Surprised you can’t see that??
 
I don't really back either right now if I'm honest. Jose has made a hell of a lot of mistakes both tactical and trust in certain personnel and not been as good and proactive in game as I was expecting. But the players have let this club down a hell of a lot over the last 2 seasons both under poch and now jose.
 
Trotter said:
Not a case of me not reading, but more that You are totally contradicting yourself.

Dele has been poor for 2 years ? Well he was injured for the period of last season that Poch was here, so you are therefore totally judging him on the period that Mourinho has been here and ostracized him. His numbers, still stood up in all of the prior seasons under Poch.

Winks, I will give you, have never rated, although gone significantly backwards under Mourinho, like almost every player we have, could still have a use at the club depending on how he would be deployed.

Sissoko was second in our player of the season vote behind Son in 2018/19, so 2 seasons ago. So again you are judging TOTALLY on his time under Mourinho. despite saying you are not.

And as I have said NO player, NOT ONE can be judged based on the last 2 seasons, due to the total clusterfuck that has been Mourinho, and his tactics.


And yes, I am seriously saying that no member of our squad (with possible exception of Doherty if new manager plans on playing a back 4) should definitely be moved on, until they are judged and utilised by a competent manager, which we have not had for the period you are solely judging the players on.
And the sooner we start that process the better.
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You fucking deluded idiot.
You honestly think the vast majority of this squad deserve another season?
What drugs do you take on a regular basis Sissoko is one of the worst players our club has had in the last 30 years.
 
MiddxSpur said:
[QUOTE="Trotter, post: 27846

I think it is totally unfair to judge any player on the period Mourinho has been manager.
I used to hate Jose so much when he was with the Chavs, I wasnt pleased when he joined us but I thought I’d give him a chance because we needed to win something.....so I think I can sense how you feel about him. But how can you not see that the players are not beyond blame in this. It was clear that most couldn’t be bothered on Sunday against a shite Woolwich team, they had that shocker and then did the same y’day !!! Lloris in his post match interview alluded to problems with some of the players. Go further back & they downed tools on Poch too.
The manager and most of the players are at fault. Surprised you can’t see that??
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Every single place this manager goes, the players fall out with him and hate him by the end.

Yet here we are, and some people are completely surprised and think this is something new.
 
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