Please explain the homegrown rules

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I think we have to leave 2 foreign trained players out of our EL squad. Guess it will be Gazza and Gedson but given these are the only matches they would likely play before the January window it feels a bit crap on them. My main annoyance about this window is we havent sorted this issue out.
I can only guess that there is something in the contract that prevents us from cancelling Gedson's loan.
There is no other reason, that I can think of, that we have kept him.
 
I can only guess that there is something in the contract that prevents us from cancelling Gedson's loan.
There is no other reason, that I can think of, that we have kept him.
I wonder if there is a logic in leaving Lloris and say Toby/Son out of the group games stage. We should walk that group with our reserves. Leave 2 players purely for league games.
 
EL rules: Dier was trained in PortugaL: Non-HG.
EPL
rules: Dier was trained in Portugal: Non-HG.
EL
rules: Davies was trained in Wales: Non-HG.
EPL
rules: Davies: HG.
EL
rules: Gedson: Non-HG.
EPL
rules: Gedson: U21.
EL
rules: Clarke has not been with us 2 years: Association.
EPL
rules: Clarke: U21.

EPLEL
NON-HG (16)NON-HG (18)
1LLORISLLORIS1
2GAZZANIGAGAZZANIGA2
3AURIERAURIER3
4ALDERWEIRELDALDERWEIRELD4
5SANCHEZSANCHEZ5
6DIERDIER6
7REGUILONREGUILON7
8HOJBJERGHOJBJERG8
9SISSOKOSISSOKO9
10NDOMBELENDOMBELE10
11LAMELALAMELA11
12LO CELSOLO CELSO12
13BERGWIJNBERGWIJN13
14MOURAMOURA14
15SONSON15
16VINICIUSVINICIUS16
DAVIES17
GEDSON18
HG (9)ASSOCIATION (4)
1HARTHART1
2DOHERTYDOHERTY2
3ALLIALLI3
4DAVIESCLARKE4
CLUB TRAINED (5)
5WHITEMANWHITEMAN1
6CCVCCV2
7WINKSWINKS3
8KANEKANE4
9BALEBALE5
SQUAD TOTAL: 25SQUAD TOTAL: 27
EPLEL
SQUAD OF 25SQUAD OF 25
MAX 17 NON-HGMAX 17 NON-HG
IF 17 NON-HGIF 17 NON-HG
MAX 8 HGMAX 8 HG
(MAX 4 ASSOCIATION)
U21 on 1st Jan inyear season starts
(UNDER 21)LIST B (UNDER 21)
No restrictionsWith Spurs 2 years

Window closed. Provisional squads above.
EPL squad is kosher at 25.
EL squad we need to lose one non-HG.
It's between Gedson and Gazza IMO.
If he keeps Gazza then Whiteman will be dropped and that is 25 total.
If he keeps Gedson then Whiteman will stay and one other association or club trained player must be dropped.
Highly likely to be CCV so maybe slight chance Jose keeps Clarke and plays him in any dead rubber games?
Thanks. Very useful.

I'm optimistic and assume we're going to be strong in the PL as well as all the cups. If we do make a push in the PL, then I can see situations where Mourinho will want to keep key players fresh by resting them in the easier EL group games.

If this logic is correct, then I suspect Mourinho will be very tempted to include Gedson in the EL squad as extra midfield legs, which would necessitate Gazza dropping out for either Whiteman or Austin.

My sense is that if either Aurier or Sissoko had left in this window, Mourinho would have promoted Gedson to their squad place. Obviously both stayed. But Gedson's best chance of getting game time is surely in the EL. So if we don't select him in the squad, I see almost no point in keeping him around.
 
Thanks. Very useful.

I'm optimistic and assume we're going to be strong in the PL as well as all the cups. If we do make a push in the PL, then I can see situations where Mourinho will want to keep key players fresh by resting them in the easier EL group games.

If this logic is correct, then I suspect Mourinho will be very tempted to include Gedson in the EL squad as extra midfield legs, which would necessitate Gazza dropping out for either Whiteman or Austin.

My sense is that if either Aurier or Sissoko had left in this window, Mourinho would have promoted Gedson to their squad place. Obviously both stayed. But Gedson's best chance of getting game time is surely in the EL. So if we don't select him in the squad, I see almost no point in keeping him around.
Agree about Gedson.
Once Bale is fit he's behind Lucas, Lamela, Dele and Bergwijn.
 
Thanks. Very useful.

I'm optimistic and assume we're going to be strong in the PL as well as all the cups. If we do make a push in the PL, then I can see situations where Mourinho will want to keep key players fresh by resting them in the easier EL group games.

If this logic is correct, then I suspect Mourinho will be very tempted to include Gedson in the EL squad as extra midfield legs, which would necessitate Gazza dropping out for either Whiteman or Austin.

My sense is that if either Aurier or Sissoko had left in this window, Mourinho would have promoted Gedson to their squad place. Obviously both stayed. But Gedson's best chance of getting game time is surely in the EL. So if we don't select him in the squad, I see almost no point in keeping him around.
It's better to keep Gedson in the EL squad than Gazza. Outfield players are more likely to get injured. So a backup CM will probably get more minutes than a 3rd choice keeper.

The only issue is Covid. If both Lloris and Hart are tested positive together, we might be in a spot of bother. Although I believe there's a UEFA rule that states we can play a goalkeeper who's registered to us but wasn't included in the original squad if such a situation arises.
 
I thought the same, but was informed on here that it's only 2 English loans and 4 from abroad.
I have googled it and can find nothing about overseas loans and that there is a maximum of 2 loans allowed.
It seems to me that Gedson will be dropped from both EPL and EL squads as the rules also say no more than one loan from the same club.
Unless there is someone who can find a link that says overseas loans are treated differently to EPL loans?

- Premier League clubs may not register more than two players on loan at any one time.
- The maximum number of loans registrable in the same season is four, and, under no circumstances, shall more than one be from the same club at any one time.
- Premier League clubs cannot loan to another Premier League club a player they have acquired in the same transfer window.
- A Premier League club may loan not more than one of its goalkeepers to another Premier League club.
 
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I have googled it and can find nothing about overseas loans and that there is a maximum of 2 loans allowed.
It seems to me that Gedson will be dropped from both EPL and EL squads as the rules also say no more than one loan from the same club.
Unless there is someone who can find a link that says overseas loans are treated differently to EPL loans?

- Premier League clubs may not register more than two players on loan at any one time.
- The maximum number of loans registrable in the same season is four, and, under no circumstances, shall more than one be from the same club at any one time.
- Premier League clubs cannot loan to another Premier League club a player they have acquired in the same transfer window.
- A Premier League club may loan not more than one of its goalkeepers to another Premier League club.
Maximum 2 loans from other PL/English clubs. We can bring more from other European clubs.

"FIFA said that a meeting of its stakeholders committee -- featuring representatives of players, clubs, leagues and national associations -- endorsed a move to limit international loans of players aged 22 and over.

It said that loans would be limited to eight out and eight in per season per club for the 2020-21 campaign, going down to six by the 2022/23 season. The new rules were designed to ensure that loans "have a valid sporting purpose for youth development.""


 
I emailed the club and the football secretary confirms that Matt Doherty is considered non-HG in Europe.
Despite not fulfilling the required continuous 3 years for some reason Doc is considered HG by the EPL. :confused:


EL rules: Dier was trained in Portugal: Non-HG.
EPL
rules: Dier was trained in Portugal: Non-HG.
EL
rules: Davies was trained in Wales: Non-HG.
EPL
rules: Davies: HG.
EL
rules: Doherty Loan in Scotland: Non-HG.
EPL
rules: Doherty is HG
EL
rules: Rodon was trained in Wales: Non-HG.
EPL
rules: Rodon is HG
EL rules: Clarke has not been with us 2 years: Association.
EPL
rules: Clarke: U21.
EL
rules: Gedson: Non-HG.
EPL
rules: Gedson: U21.
 
I don't pay attention but are there is this "is he or isn't" HG stuff there for all teams or do we just have a unusually high number of them this year?

Davies, Rodon, Doherty, Dier all seem like there is a common sense argument for them to be HG but none are in Europa.
 
I don't pay attention but are there is this "is he or isn't" HG stuff there for all teams or do we just have a unusually high number of them this year?

Davies, Rodon, Doherty, Dier all seem like there is a common sense argument for them to be HG but none are in Europa.

We have a bigger squad than for last few years - essential given the more frequent matches than previous seasons (no free mid weeks this season, usually we have some) - which emphasises the HG/non HG situation as we are pretty well maxed out in squad size whereas in previous years we usually had some space to bring player(s) in .

HG and Non HG are defined by PL and UEFA rules rather than common sense !

sudoku has helpfully listed the differences between PL and EL rules - these are the 2 squads which show we need to sell/loan overseas trained players to bring anyone in (and still have Rodon as ineligible in EL)

EL
Club Trained - 4
( Kane, Bale, Winks, Whiteman, )
Other Assoc Trained 3 (Hart, Dele, Clarke)
Overseas Trained 17 (Lloris, Aurier, Doherty, Sanchez, Alderweireld, Dier, Reguilon, Davies, Hojbjerg, Sissoko, Lo Celso, Lucas, Ndombele, Son, Bergwijn, Vinicius, Lamela)
Sub-Total 24 Players
List B (U 21's)
2 (Tanganga, Austin etc)

But Rodon not eligible for EL.

For PL (with different rules to categorise players) :
Other Association Trained

- 17 players above less Davies less Doherty plus Gazzaniga = 16
Home Grown
- As Club and Other Assn Trained - 7 above plus Davies, Rodon & Doherty less Clarke = 9
Sub - Total 25 Players
Under 21's

- As above plus Clarke
 
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We have a bigger squad than for last few years - essential given the more frequent matches than previous seasons (no free mid weeks this season, usually we have some) - which emphasises the HG/non HG situation as we are pretty well maxed out in squad size whereas in previous years we usually had some space to bring player(s) in .

HG and Non HG are defined by PL and UEFA rules rather than common sense !

sudoku has helpfully listed the differences between PL and EL rules - these are the 2 squads which show we need to sell/loan overseas trained players to bring anyone in (and still have Rodon as ineligible in EL)

I saw that he did that and appreciate it.

My question was just out of interest in other teams have so many guys with odd HG status as us. For example,

Rodon and Davies HG for PL not for EL. even more frustrating (in my view) is that they played for Swansea in their youth career, which although located in Wales plays in the English system and for some dumb reason UEFA says they aren't home grown. They could have played every game of their careers in the PL against other players that are HG for playing in that league but they are not. To me it is common sense that they should be HG but I understand that they are not, That is what I meant by common sense versus rules. There is zero reason they shouldn't be considered home grown since they spent their careers playing in the same system that Tottenham is in.

Likewise, Doherty is apparently no eligible because he was on a 6 month loan. To me that is ridiculous, but again I understand it is the rules.

Dier a little less straight forward although I think it is funny that a guy born in England, plays for English with two English parents, playing in the PL is not considered HG. I understand that he spent his youth career in Portugal but still seems a little silly to me.

I was just interested if other teams have these kind of odd situations. Wasn't meant to be anything more than a curiosity since sudoku already had done a great job of laying out the actual parameters of who was HG and not.
 
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