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Management Relegation

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Do you think we'll stay up?

  • Yes

    Votes: 184 40.1%

  • No

    Votes: 275 59.9%
  • Total voters
    459
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bk_spur said:
To be fair they are very good at business related things like monetization of assets and stuff like that, but, that's also the problem: they want to run a sustainably profitable sports-entertainment business in a football league with filthy rich oligarchs and nation-states purposefully plundering their companies and countries to burn money in enormous quantities for a few extra league points. We are so from having that sort of competitive mentality, and just not resourceful enough to make up for the lack of it with good scouting and cunning transfer moves.
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It’s not just spending power we lack

Levy is a complete dweeb, and not a leader. He’s an underhand snivelling worm that fosters a culture of blame and failure and there’s an undercurrent through the entire club. He’s not a visionary, is risk averse and dithers on opportunities and can’t set out a strategy for others

He is personally responsible for this, too easy to blame it on lack of money / oil states.

He would thrive as a financial director in a low margin retail business like Lidl or Costco. His skills aren’t suited to top level football at all (and im
Balanced to admit he does have skills he’s not a complete moron)
 
I was thinking 24 points after 21 games is good enough to keep you out of trouble.

Quick check back. 22/23.
Leicester. 13th
22 games. W7 D3 L12

Spurs this season. 13th.
21 games w7 d3 L11.

Everton is a real 6 pointer!!

Leicester only got 10 points from their last 16 games. We are still tracking above that right now. Somehow!!

They also went down with best GD of the bottom 6!!
We could yet “do a Leicester!” But it’s highly unlikely.
Get our first choices back we are a solid top 14 team!!
 
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daveyboy88 said:
ermmmm, it does matter. its not just some token gesture! the captain is the one who leads on the pitch and gets the team to dig in when its trenches. its not about whos been here the longest and whos always got a smile on his face and popularity and all this shit! this is sport! survival of the fittest!
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And lieutenants lead infantry platoons.

:pocheyes:

Titles don't make leaders. Titles make bosses. Leaders lead even without titles. The idea that players really care who has the arm band (other than personal pride) is ridiculously naive.

We have a leadership crisis, but it's not a result of Son having the armband. We have poor leadership, starting in the dugout and extending to the pitch where we don't have any players embarrassed by being mid table.
 
MemphisWill said:
Son was made captain because he is the longest tenured, most personally accomplished, and most liked player in the squad.

You guys really do overthink this stuff. We're not shit because we have the wrong captain - no one really gives a fuck who has the arm band. We're shit because we have a manager who is 2 or 3 levels above his ability here.
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Disagree- he was already in decline as soon as last season. Captaincy forced him in at ST in many situations where he should not have been played- and nearly everyone seems to agree on this.

It’s not like he’s the worst pick at captain- he’s just not very good at it. If Odobert hadn’t gotten injured at the beginning of the season Son may easily have found himself consigned to the bench.
 
MemphisWill said:
The idea that players really care who has the arm band (other than personal pride) is ridiculously naive.
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That’s just your opinion Will- I don’t believe it’s easily proved in a strict sense, nor do you have the resources to prove it.

I do think Captaincy matters, and as an example I do think it secretly burned Kane that he wasn’t given captaincy ahead of Lloris.
 
Son's not the best captain. But it's again a matter of who on Earth you would have picked. Look at the most common starting XI the season he got the armband:

Vicario
Porro-Romero-Van de Ven-Udogie
Bissouma-Maddison-Sarr
Johnson-Son-Kulusevski

Johnson, Vicario, Porro, Udogie, Van de Ven and Maddison were all in their first season at the club. Romero at that time was very hotheaded, very lucky not to get more red cards, and accused of having prioritised Argentina over us. Bissouma had only been here one year and there were concerns over his attitude. Sarr was 20 years old and barely ever started a game for us. That leaves Kulusevski as the only remotely plausible alternative - someone who was pretty young at 23, only just made his loan signing officially permanent after 18 months, and doesn't have a reputation as a natural leader either.

Son was the only remotely plausible option. Yet again, Ange is getting the blame for supposedly choosing the wrong captain, when the issue was all about the squad he inherited. And lots of people who cried out for a painful rebuild are now crying that it's painful and that this level of squad overhaul isn't actually easy.
 
94Spurs94 said:
Son's not the best captain. But it's again a matter of who on Earth you would have picked. Look at the most common starting XI the season he got the armband:

Vicario
Porro-Romero-Van de Ven-Udogie
Bissouma-Maddison-Sarr
Johnson-Son-Kulusevski

Johnson, Vicario, Porro, Udogie, Van de Ven and Maddison were all in their first season at the club. Romero at that time was very hotheaded, very lucky not to get more red cards, and accused of having prioritised Argentina over us. Bissouma had only been here one year and there were concerns over his attitude. Sarr was 20 years old and barely ever started a game for us. That leaves Kulusevski as the only remotely plausible alternative - someone who was pretty young at 23, only just made his loan signing officially permanent after 18 months, and doesn't have a reputation as a natural leader either.

Son was the only remotely plausible option. Yet again, Ange is getting the blame for supposedly choosing the wrong captain, when the issue was all about the squad he inherited. And lots of people who cried out for a painful rebuild are now crying that it's painful and that this level of squad overhaul isn't actually easy.
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If a new coach comes in, I'd be tempted to go with VdV as captain. Seems like he has high standards and is well respected.

We do need a new MF leader though. In time Bergvall and Gray could be captain material?

But generally I agree the captaincy is a pretty minor issue in the context of Ange's shocking lack of management ability.
 
enfield1985 said:
Fuck knows. Levy should get on his has hands and knees and beg Poch to come back and manage this circus. The fact is he should have been reappointed summer before last.
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People need to remember how it ended with Poch.

He's not the one.

And I tracked the feedback from fans when he was at chelsea and he's still making the same errors and they wanted him gone for the same reasons we did, in the end.
 
manmountainbutters said:
If a new coach comes in, I'd be tempted to go with VdV as captain. Seems like he has high standards and is well respected.

We do need a new MF leader though. In time Bergvall and Gray could be captain material?

But generally I agree the captaincy is a pretty minor issue in the context of Ange's shocking lack of management ability.
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Yeah, I'd be tempted by VDV now, or Romero if he were to sign a new deal (which I think is unlikely). But I'm defending Ange in that Son was the only realistic option when he picked him.
 
94Spurs94 said:
Son's not the best captain. But it's again a matter of who on Earth you would have picked. Look at the most common starting XI the season he got the armband:

Vicario
Porro-Romero-Van de Ven-Udogie
Bissouma-Maddison-Sarr
Johnson-Son-Kulusevski

Johnson, Vicario, Porro, Udogie, Van de Ven and Maddison were all in their first season at the club. Romero at that time was very hotheaded, very lucky not to get more red cards, and accused of having prioritised Argentina over us. Bissouma had only been here one year and there were concerns over his attitude. Sarr was 20 years old and barely ever started a game for us. That leaves Kulusevski as the only remotely plausible alternative - someone who was pretty young at 23, only just made his loan signing officially permanent after 18 months, and doesn't have a reputation as a natural leader either.

Son was the only remotely plausible option. Yet again, Ange is getting the blame for supposedly choosing the wrong captain, when the issue was all about the squad he inherited. And lots of people who cried out for a painful rebuild are now crying that it's painful and that this level of squad overhaul isn't actually easy.
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I agreed with everything up to the last paragraph.

Ange has failed. This is unacceptable. He's done nothing to provide any confidence he has the ability to manage at this level.

AVB was given a rebuild, too, and did far better with it, with cheaper players, and was still sacked.
 
MemphisWill said:
I agreed with everything up to the last paragraph.

Ange has failed. This is unacceptable. He's done nothing to provide any confidence he has the ability to manage at this level.

AVB was given a rebuild, too, and did far better with it, with cheaper players, and was still sacked.
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I don't think AVB is a fair comparison at all. He literally had a prime Gareth Bale in his first season and did no better than Ange managed. Opinions on Ange last year would've been much harsher if we still had Harry Kane running around.
 
Wolves are in the final relegation spot atm.

Their next four are:

@Chelsea
vs Woolwich
vs Villa
@ Liverpool

I can’t see them getting more than a point from those fixtures. We’re pretty lucky this season is most likely going to only require ~30 points to stay up.
 
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