Roy Keane On Spurs 'Softness'

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There is zero evidence that we are. All people point to is results without looking at what actually happened in the games. They just attribute it softness or Spursy because it is easier that actually assessing what happened.

You know how many teams won on hard work and "attitude" zero? Teams win with talent.

A team full of Keanes is whipped by a team full of Beckhams.

If you think winning a trophy will change anything you are crazy. The only thing that changes anything is talent.

If we bring in Mbappe, Neymar, Ederson, Haaland, KDB, VVD, Dias, Kante our hardness won't improve but we likely win because our talent is so much better.

You ask where's the evidence as though you have been asleep for years.

The number of occasions is like a list of pain from the 3-4 loss to City in the FA Cup when we were 3 up and playing 10 men through to United beating us 3-5 after being 3-up and more recently losing a 2 goal lead in the Europa.

We need to find a way not to collapse when all we need is the resolve to see it through, so when we fall short it can only be mentality.
 
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AberdeenYid

I'm very rarely proud of myself
Keane got relegated and happened to be at the most financially dominant clubs the 90s/00s

Threw away his chance in World Cup 2002

Was a shit manager.
He was that shit in the relegation season that ManU signed him for a record transfer fee.

But granted, he threw a tantrum in 2002 and wasn’t exactly a fine manager.

None of the above make him wrong in what he said.
 
You ask where's the evidence as though you have been asleep for years.

The number of occasions is like a list of pain from the 3-4 loss to City in the FA Cup when we were 3 up and playing 10 men through to United beating us 3-5 after being 3-up and more recently losing a 2 goal lead in the Europa.

We need to find a way not to collapse when all we need is the resolve to see it through and when we can short it can only be mentality.

Those are examples of games we lost not examples of us being soft. We can collapse for a number of different reasons so you have to show that we lost because we are soft, not just that we lost games.

And again what is the reason that players are soft here but not other places? It can't be some BS notion like "that is Spurs" that is what happens when you play for Spurs because that is BS.

Do you think if we swap sides with City that they would be winning titles and we would be in the same spot? Because that is what you are saying if you think it is a club thing. Do you honestly think that is you swapped out City players and Pep for our players and Managers from the past 5 years that we would have zero trophies and titles and they would have the same level of winning?
 
Also City has repeatedly lost to weaker teams in the CL, so are they somehow soft in the CL but strong in the PL?

How does that work with this magically idea of softness?
 
We’ve lost 18 points from winning positions this season (9 dropped past 85 minutes and another 2 dropped after 80 minutes).

We’ve picked up just 4 points all season in the 2nd half, both times from 0-0 at half time against 2nd from bottom West Brom.

All sounds a bit Spursy and soft to me.
 

theromanianjackass

My one and only club
What Roy Keane fails to understand although himself has been a manager, albeit not a successful one is that what the club has done back in the 70s/80s/90s has nothing to do with what we do today. Otherwise we’d see Forest somewhere in Premier League not struggling to make top half in the Championship. We’d have never seen Leicester win the league a few years ago as they’ve never been successful in their whole history.

What happens today at Spurs is the result of terrible game management and tactics. We’ve lost 18 points from winning position because once we score, we sit back. Every Spurs fan knows and has seen this. When we haven’t done it (Leeds, Sheff Utd) we’ve won comfortably. Of course players not being interested as much as they should is having an impact on these results, but that’s also down to other factors than only attitude.
 
It's less about softness, more about money and how the clubs are run.

Chelsea and man city didn't suddenly stop being soft one day - they had a billionaire throw oil money at them until they started winning things.

The idea that all our players/teams of the last 40 years have been soft just doesn't make much sense, especially since there have been plenty of occasions they have stepped up.

If 'not winning tournaments regularly' equates to being soft, then that includes the vast majority of football teams in the world. That doesn't make them bottle jobs.

Of course, confidence and momentum are huge parts of football, and we're incredibly low on both right now. And I agree some of our current players have a mentality problem. But some of them are also proven winners. Our captain is the current world cup holder ffs.

We have a lot of issues right now, but I don't think the club being soft is one of them.
 

MVP

🌽🥝🥑🥥🍊
Hello to all, I've managed to get my hands on an internet PC for a few hours so have been catching up on all the news. I spotted this link and whilst I hate Roy Keane he does tell it as he sees it.


I loved the author's comments, particularly : As I’ve made the point before; professional sport only works one way. If that weren’t the case, golf courses would have no holes and racecourses wouldn’t have a finish line.

I fully understand Jamie's attempts to defend the club but he's clearly struggling against the harsh reality of titles and cup successes. So I'll ask the older members here, has this 'softness' gone on for 40 years ??

Great to be on the internet, I've been like a kid in a sweet shop :) .... take care all. Hopefully catch up with you all again soon. :thumbup:
Good to see you back Mr Voldemort.
 

MVP

🌽🥝🥑🥥🍊
I'd agree with this - off the top of my head why do the likes Villa, Everton, Newcastle not get accused of being soft & bottlers?

Leeds? Sheffield Wednesday? Probably missing a few more as well.

All of these teams had enjoyed success in the past and all have won f*ck all for decades. I'd say that most of those also have a similar size fanbase to us as well.
This excuse is always trotted out, that's why Levy and co keep getting away with shit.
 
This polarising debate keeps cropping up again and again. And it does for good reason in my opinion. There is something in the DNA (if you like) or in the aura of the club.

‘Lads it’s Tottenham’ - allegedly a half time team talk by Fergie when 0-3 down to us. We all know how that ended. Even in our pomp in the 60’s Shankly referred to Spurs as the Drury Lane tap danncers, while we failed to win at Anfield since the sinking of the Titanic.

Keane, I think in his autobiography, talked about certain players having ‘Tottenham tendencies’ - I took this to mean, easy on the eye, imbued with natural talent and skill but would wilt when it came to the crunch.

I understand how unpalatable, even crazy the DNA thing must sound to some people who rail against such a notion. However, it isn’t just about signing certain players but also about decisions that are taken by chairmen, owners and managers.

For years our club was known as a ‘cup team’. In the eighties in particular, this was great fun but it also signalled something to our players, any potential signing, opponents, fans and pundits alike - that we could turn it on at certain times but could never sustain it. A self fulfilling prophecy. The characteristic has since morphed when we began the painful trend of arriving in Semi Finals and Finals and losing.

To those who point out - with some justification- that the same brittleness could be ascribed to Newcastle or Leeds i would beg to differ and instead look to our geographical context. The success of Woolwich and Chelsea hurts. Woolwich in particular, are currently worse than us but are FA Cup holders and have the potential to win the Europa. Not only that but their supporters can still smugly point to all the league titles plus other trophies they won in the modern era. Those Spurs fans that blithely say, ‘I don’t care what our neighbours do or don’t do’ are kidding themselves. We watched our club try to catch up only to fall on our collective faces time and again. It hurts but until we change many things , including the mentality , at our club we will continue to be the butt of others jibes and jokes, inc Mr Keane’s.
 
This polarising debate keeps cropping up again and again. And it does for good reason in my opinion. There is something in the DNA (if you like) or in the aura of the club.

‘Lads it’s Tottenham’ - allegedly a half time team talk by Fergie when 0-3 down to us. We all know how that ended. Even in our pomp in the 60’s Shankly referred to Spurs as the Drury Lane tap danncers, while we failed to win at Anfield since the sinking of the Titanic.

Keane, I think in his autobiography, talked about certain players having ‘Tottenham tendencies’ - I took this to mean, easy on the eye, imbued with natural talent and skill but would wilt when it came to the crunch.

I understand how unpalatable, even crazy the DNA thing must sound to some people who rail against such a notion. However, it isn’t just about signing certain players but also about decisions that are taken by chairmen, owners and managers.

For years our club was known as a ‘cup team’. In the eighties in particular, this was great fun but it also signalled something to our players, any potential signing, opponents, fans and pundits alike - that we could turn it on at certain times but could never sustain it. A self fulfilling prophecy. The characteristic has since morphed when we began the painful trend of arriving in Semi Finals and Finals and losing.

To those who point out - with some justification- that the same brittleness could be ascribed to Newcastle or Leeds i would beg to differ and instead look to our geographical context. The success of Woolwich and Chelsea hurts. Woolwich in particular, are currently worse than us but are FA Cup holders and have the potential to win the Europa. Not only that but their supporters can still smugly point to all the league titles plus other trophies they won in the modern era. Those Spurs fans that blithely say, ‘I don’t care what our neighbours do or don’t do’ are kidding themselves. We watched our club try to catch up only to fall on our collective faces time and again. It hurts but until we change many things , including the mentality , at our club we will continue to be the butt of others jibes and jokes, inc Mr Keane’s.

This sir is a wonderful post. I salute you. Agree 100%.
 
This polarising debate keeps cropping up again and again. And it does for good reason in my opinion. There is something in the DNA (if you like) or in the aura of the club.

‘Lads it’s Tottenham’ - allegedly a half time team talk by Fergie when 0-3 down to us. We all know how that ended. Even in our pomp in the 60’s Shankly referred to Spurs as the Drury Lane tap danncers, while we failed to win at Anfield since the sinking of the Titanic.

Keane, I think in his autobiography, talked about certain players having ‘Tottenham tendencies’ - I took this to mean, easy on the eye, imbued with natural talent and skill but would wilt when it came to the crunch.

I understand how unpalatable, even crazy the DNA thing must sound to some people who rail against such a notion. However, it isn’t just about signing certain players but also about decisions that are taken by chairmen, owners and managers.

For years our club was known as a ‘cup team’. In the eighties in particular, this was great fun but it also signalled something to our players, any potential signing, opponents, fans and pundits alike - that we could turn it on at certain times but could never sustain it. A self fulfilling prophecy. The characteristic has since morphed when we began the painful trend of arriving in Semi Finals and Finals and losing.

To those who point out - with some justification- that the same brittleness could be ascribed to Newcastle or Leeds i would beg to differ and instead look to our geographical context. The success of Woolwich and Chelsea hurts. Woolwich in particular, are currently worse than us but are FA Cup holders and have the potential to win the Europa. Not only that but their supporters can still smugly point to all the league titles plus other trophies they won in the modern era. Those Spurs fans that blithely say, ‘I don’t care what our neighbours do or don’t do’ are kidding themselves. We watched our club try to catch up only to fall on our collective faces time and again. It hurts but until we change many things , including the mentality , at our club we will continue to be the butt of others jibes and jokes, inc Mr Keane’s.

That's the worst point of all this.

Seeing us rise, consistently, make the performances. And then flatlining.

Anyone who say you are wrong can go on and explain how an "ambitious" club goes 18 months without signing players, all while stagnating.

Fuck knows what signal that sends.
 
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