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Supporters Rudiger claims he heard monkey chants

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Nutter-Naylor said:
It appears TFC has been divided in to two camps in this issue.

Those that want to see conclusive proof that a Spurs fan made racist remarks and or gestures. After which the perpetrator should be given a life ban.

And those that appear desperate for it to be true that a Spurs fan racially abused a Chelsea player and are clinging to hearsay for proof.

I think that sums it up.
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I’ve not seen a single post from anyone wanting it to be true. I really, really hope it isn’t with every fiber of my being.

My interpretation is this:
1. People are demanding proof and without it it never happened. There have been (not everyone) others with this position that have then compounded the issue to attack the player who has made the accusation and furthermore want him or expect him to provide proof. There has been other stuff said that further clouds this position but from what I’ve seen it’s individual spats.
2. The other side is initially that Rudiger ( or any footballer on the field of play in any game played) can report a claim that they think they are subject to racial abuse. There is a protocol put in place for players to do exactly this. Rudiger did exactly this. The protocol was then followed (although there is confusion whether Taylor followed the right protocol). Rudiger can’t provide evidence other than report what he believes he heard. He doesn’t wear a camera, he isn’t mic’d up.

For those wanting evidence, unless it is picked up by the broadcasters (TV and Radio) they will not see any further evidence. This evidence (if there is any) will come from eye whiteness and from Tottenham Hotspur Stadium CCTV and whatever other tech they use. No one will ever get to see this if it’s sufficient for prosecution.

I think this covers the two broad areas from the extremes and individual spats I’ve seen.
 
Eli said:
No in theory if your at a football match in which you’ve paid a lot of money to watch you should be concentrating on the game! But You know as well as I do that’s not the case now if a situation occurred as you said you’ve I encountered racism and confronted it no your first reaction won’t be to get your phone out for various reasons but what I’m saying is that no one in that area whether directly and more likely indirectly in this case didn’t have a phone in hand.....really? In which case Tottenham fans must have been totally absorbed
With the game, and obviously with the exception of one or two fans or..........?
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I’m saying do not expect people to get there phones out and record it. Do not expect fans that by accident to have recorded it to report it or post it online. I’m saying that people shit themselves and would rather not get involved whilst it’s going on or even after the event. I say this because I’ve whiteness this happen first hand.
But wait, it didn’t happen because it wasn’t filmed and posted online, right?
 
Nutter-Naylor said:
Exactly. I think they player thinks he heard it but is LIKELY to have misheard it. So far there has been ONE unsubstantiated Tweet to back up the claim.

I don't know how many times I have to say, anyone proved to have made racist gestures, slurs or anything else should be banned.
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My initial thought upon hearing about this whole incident was the “who who who” chant being shouted.

I haven’t ever heard people making monkey noises or have been told by others they heard it happening at WHL.

Not to say there won’t be a first time and that area is pretty much all long standing ST holders. Be pretty easy for club to identify people.

So I’m just waiting for any official response.
 
Guido said:
I’m saying do not expect people to get there phones out and record it. Do not expect fans that by accident to have recorded it to report it or post it online. I’m saying that people shit themselves and would rather not get involved whilst it’s going on or even after the event. I say this because I’ve whiteness this happen first hand.
But wait, it didn’t happen because it wasn’t filmed and posted online, right?
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As far as getting the perpetrator banned, without evidence it won't happen. Which is what the club and all right minded supporters want.
 
Another sad thing about this thread is depending on the official verdict we will probably unfortunately see one side "told you so" the other...ignoring the criticisms of arguments put forward that are not dependent on the outcome/result.

Hopefully they prove he was mistaken, if inconclusive hopefully he was mistaken but hopefully people won't take 'inconclusive' as absolute proof of lying/didn't happen and if they prove someone did it hopefully they are caught and banned.
 



Really unbiased title that from Sky forgetting the fact the announcement was addressed to ALL fans at the ground.

Oh and I suppose we will forget about Son being racially abused and that one actually has evidence behind it.
 
Guido said:
I’m saying do not expect people to get there phones out and record it. Do not expect fans that by accident to have recorded it to report it or post it online. I’m saying that people shit themselves and would rather not get involved whilst it’s going on or even after the event. I say this because I’ve whiteness this happen first hand.
But wait, it didn’t happen because it wasn’t filmed and posted online, right?
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I’m trying explain one thing and your trying explain tother fair enough all I’m doing or at least trying to do is defend our our club and fan base in regards being labelled racist! Yes it’s got my back up because of who’s accusing us.....them of all clubs/people! Folk get worked up at a football matches I get that and we will have supporters who let the club down I get that too but until there’s evidence,names etc then I’m defending our club.
 
Nutter-Naylor said:
As far as getting the perpetrator banned, without evidence it won't happen. Which is what the club and all right minded supporters want.
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Sure.

It’s also not down to the player to provide any evidence. He followed the protocol that’s been put into place.

By comparison, regarding the Chelsea fan that was arrested, what evidence is provided here? I’m reading into the events that another Chelsea fan used the text function to report it (I assume he gives a row and seat no?) and old bill then nick him. If This is the process what’s the evidence used?
 
Guido said:
Sure.

It’s also not down to the player to provide any evidence. He followed the protocol that’s been put into place.

By comparison, regarding the Chelsea fan that was arrested, what evidence is provided here? I’m reading into the events that another Chelsea fan used the text function to report it (I assume he gives a row and seat no?) and old bill then nick him. If This is the process what’s the evidence used?
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No (can't say I've noticed anyone put the onus on Rudiger to provide proof tho).... But suffice to say, the least that is required is to identify an alleged culprit, no?

If not this whole shitstorm (and thread) just circles and goes nowhere on the basis of one man's impression.
 
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fogueres said:
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Damn were those seriously the headlines?Where's the part about the Chelsea fan that actually got arrested for racially abusing Son?
I hate sensationalist media...
 
Eli said:
I’m trying explain one thing and your trying explain tother fair enough all I’m doing or at least trying to do is defend our our club and fan base in regards being labelled racist! Yes it’s got my back up because of who’s accusing us.....them of all clubs/people! Folk get worked up at a football matches I get that and we will have supporters who let the club down I get that too but until there’s evidence,names etc then I’m defending our club.
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Please don’t take this the wrong way, if you were in front of me you will know this is meant in good grace. But are you aware that that response you have just given discourages some people from reporting racism? You are creating an environment where tribalism comes first. It’s one of the reasons how the NF infiltrated the terraces in the 70’s.

It takes balls to confront and do something about racism it has nothing to do with the team we are playing against ( and of course I’m more than aware of the history here). But what’s there to defend? I can tell you hand on heart we have racists in our fanbase, we’ve probably got child abuses, wife beaters and murders. Please, don’t tell me you don’t believe that we don’t?

I’m saying don’t make it easy for these CUNY’s to hide. Don’t make an environment where it’s easier for someone to not report or confront it if they encounter it. If you’re passionate about not having racists in our fanbase then accept that they are there and they do exist. Then create an environment that empowers footballers, fans to report it. To do this means applauding those brave enough to do something about it.
Specifically I’m talking about REPORTING/CONFRONTING it. It’s then up to the authorities to do something about it.
 
Guido said:
Sure.

It’s also not down to the player to provide any evidence. He followed the protocol that’s been put into place.

By comparison, regarding the Chelsea fan that was arrested, what evidence is provided here? I’m reading into the events that another Chelsea fan used the text function to report it (I assume he gives a row and seat no?) and old bill then nick him. If This is the process what’s the evidence used?
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The club will have CCTV.
 
kingdawson said:
Btw quite a few posters including myself have stated we have heard racist comments/abuse at the Lane before from out lot. Does the fact that there is no video evidence mean we didnt hear it and it didn't happen?
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If there is no evidence, who do you suggest we punish and what should the charge be?

(Not trying to be facetious here, but this scenario eventually begs the question....)
 
Neumanator said:
For those wanting evidence, unless it is picked up by the broadcasters (TV and Radio) they will not see any further evidence. This evidence (if there is any) will come from eye whiteness and from Tottenham Hotspur Stadium CCTV and whatever other tech they use. No one will ever get to see this if it’s sufficient for prosecution.

Racist
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Trust me if Sky has any even a shred they’d be all over it. And I know for sure the footage has been clipped up and poured over since Sunday
 
Airfixx said:
If there is no evidence, who do you suggest we punish and what should the charge be?

(Not trying to be facetious here, but this scenario eventually begs the question....)
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If theres not enough substantial evidence then we shouldn't and can't punish anybody but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. That doesn't mean Rudiger was making it up as numerous people have implied or that he was "playing the race card". It simply means there wasnt enough substantial evidence to confirm it took place.
 
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