-
The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...
Youth Spurs Youth 2021/22
- Thread starter WindyCOYS
- Start date
Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports
Z, I noticed you missed my questions from earlier but comfortably found the cushy confines of the academy apologist's post. Though I can't read his prompts I do note the ease with which you found them and not answers to my simple questions. BC often suffers similar transient attacks.
As I've told my man BC, when you can't answer simple questions about your perspective it's prolly time to change your perspective.
...as after a really nice curry...all shit though.
Translation: "Wow, we thought he was good but it turns out he's shit. So since we've always been shitter than him we must be complete shit."
England, a place not known for it"s skillful players, is also somehow the only country on the planet where this phenomenon is exhibited...surely if ability can be siphoned off or bloodlet (don't know what you brutal and ancient cultures get up to nowadays...young democracies always have road bumps on their path to FREEDOM (tm)).
Ok, so whatever the policy was it surely had to be successful, right? Then name me these players that were tearing it up before Poch...and then the players that should be tearing it up now...and the future players that will be tearing it up. We'll wait.
As I've told my man BC, when you can't answer simple questions about your perspective it's prolly time to change your perspective.
Yup, and that's not pining over not-good-enough academy players or trying to rehash some non-existent methods from before Poch that also weren 't successful...that is, unless you can name me those players that WERE successful without changing the goalpost to some other BS like xger fees for League 2 transfers bolstering out bottom line when the fact is we only spend 50% and have the biggest gap to FFP of any PL team...point being, the 5M here or there for X-shitty youth player is what is holding us back and is thus disingenuous to be claiming...but that's never stopped folks like BC and Sp[irsidol from doing it.
Last edited:
They were all successful, as
Spursidol
said, we sold a set for £100m odd, who each never sold for much higher, so we yielded a fully functioning set of athletes.Look since Poch (not blaming him solely, we just lost all focus as he came along), players KWP now worth twice what we sold for, fair? Edwards, anomaly but, again flourishes away (and we never made him feel Spurs IMO, like we loved him but knew he'd perhaps need longer, surly as fuck presentation though, so who knows with that lad). Noni...
These are very finite windows in development, giving a couple to Brentford, Norwich et al further down who are being progressive, would not be hard to deploy. So, the where are they now is utter folly, it's where might they have been (perhaps still not quite good enough, but £5-20M sales, instead of few hundred thousand, the odd one like KWP with better nurture, might save huge amounts, fix our HG mess).
Right now, we have Devine, having all the raw tools (bit big maybe, so injuries might plague him), it's time we get the next set right, ensure if it fails its because of the player, not us...
I don't see that propagandist's posts as I've told you. You see, he is a disingenuous goalpost moving prick that I want to avoid. And what I mean about moving the goalposts is like here...NOW you are arguing we made some cash off of selling our SHIT players to some league 1 sides. Ok, but first you were arguing KWP is great and Poch is a prick because we are missing out on the new Cafu. So which is it my man? I'm flexible but I just need to know exactly what bullshit I'm flexing over. Rest assured I will still annihilate your argument (yours, his, theirs, someone elses) but I just need to know what it is. Becaise to say it's NOW about xfer money then we got xfer money for kWP so why you bithcing about it?They were all successful, as
Sure you are...at least you were attempting to until you were called on it...but...
...name me all the successes we had before him? Go ahead, I'll wait. It seems with the inconvenient definition of 'success' there aren't any before Poch, right? So...the class move is to change the definition, right?
It seems we got xfer fees for the vast majority so according to your NEW definition there actually wasn't a problem. So do you know what you're raging against? Have flaxseed prices gone up or soemthing and you are displacing your anger?
Again, it's emotional...all these argument on this board are emotional and devoid of reason. I'm gonna assume it's the phytoestrogens getting to ya and you're just having a moment. Bless.
Our HG mess is intentional just like many of the other issues with the club...intentional. It ties our hands in the xfer market because all moves are predicated on some other decison good ol' DL is solely responsible for fixing. If we didn't have a HG problem then we could just focus on bringing in the talent we need and spending money...something DL does not like to do.
but also, spaghetti against the wall with you and the others on this topic. It's like clockwork, you trot out some easily smashed BS only to follow it up with "...but, but, but xfer fees" and then "...but, but, but HG quota". Textbook moving of the goalposts because ultimately your posiiton is irrational and there is no defense other than the phytoestrogens having their way with y'all. But this is a good thing because
bus-conductor
needed to make some changes to his diet of meat, cooked in meat fat, and served in meat juice on a meat bun. A vegetable might do him good, the carnivorous bastard. Also, Jack clarke is on loan and Phil Foden never went...sit on that one a bit and see if you can come up with a good explanation as to why there is a difference at the business end.
Also, he will fail to make it with Spurs. I can confidently say this because of all the previous evidence from our academy. But if y'all put your heads together I'm sure you can find some special place to put the new goalposts that will make him a success.
I don't see that propagandist's posts as I've told you. You see, he is a disingenuous goalpost moving prick that I want to avoid. And what I mean about moving the goalposts is like here...NOW you are arguing we made some cash off of selling our SHIT players to some league 1 sides. Ok, but first you were arguing KWP is great and Poch is a prick because we are missing out on the new Cafu. So which is it my man? I'm flexible but I just need to know exactly what bullshit I'm flexing over. Rest assured I will still annihilate your argument (yours, his, theirs, someone elses) but I just need to know what it is. Becaise to say it's NOW about xfer money then we got xfer money for kWP so why you bithcing about it?
Sure you are...at least you were attempting to until you were called on it...but...
...name me all the successes we had before him? Go ahead, I'll wait. It seems with the inconvenient definition of 'success' there aren't any before Poch, right? So...the class move is to change the definition, right?
It seems we got xfer fees for the vast majority so according to your NEW definition there actually wasn't a problem. So do you know what you're raging against? Have flaxseed prices gone up or soemthing and you are displacing your anger?
Again, it's emotional...all these argument on this board are emotional and devoid of reason. I'm gonna assume it's the phytoestrogens getting to ya and you're just having a moment. Bless.
Our HG mess is intentional just like many of the other issues with the club...intentional. It ties our hands in the xfer market because all moves are predicated on some other decison good ol' DL is solely responsible for fixing. If we didn't have a HG problem then we could just focus on bringing in the talent we need and spending money...something DL does not like to do.
but also, spaghetti against the wall with you and the others on this topic. It's like clockwork, you trot out some easily smashed BS only to follow it up with "...but, but, but xfer fees" and then "...but, but, but HG quota". Textbook moving of the goalposts because ultimately your posiiton is irrational and there is no defense other than the phytoestrogens having their way with y'all. But this is a good thing because
Also, Jack clarke is on loan and Phil Foden never went...sit on that one a bit and see if you can come up with a good explanation as to why there is a difference at the business end.
Foden is a freak. It's my assertion that we haven't maximised their potentials, lowering trajectories. It's all conjecture of course.
Don't have much of the meal/ligands, unless I'm blocked up, more an oil freak mostly (though you know those Flax ligands are some of natures finest women food).
Now, if I could fit Cholecystokinin/Pancreozymin on my profile thingy, maybe all would be well, as that's my present area of study (papers vs experience/folk medicine).
Welp, I've countered everyone of your points with counterpoints that are still standing. Perhaps it's time to let the conjecture on these matter rest. We don't miss KWP, we won't miss shitty ass Dele when he first score a goal OR when he score a hattrick in League 2 in a few years and we won't miss the next NOTHINGT youth player that comes through overhyped by the likes of Spursidol and Windy...WE WON'T MISS THEM BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T. No one was crying for Jamie O'Hara when we were in prime Poch. Our academy produces nothing players and will continue to do so...AS IT ALWAYS HAS.
Now, Chelsea's academy produces PL players and 'xfer money players'...it's just that their academy produces Abraham, Livramento, Broja, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. Ask youself why that is and you will be closer to the truth.
...and like the family of God's Weed it also produces a nice and sustainable fiber/textiles...
PS- and the real answer is that Foden has talent and our players are shit and always have been because they are raw material turds from the off and are still turds coming out...and it's a PITA waiting on turds to come out...motility should concern you Z, both gut and academy.
See now I can't give you a like/agree for the end, because of the guff before.
You are seeing it like we feel a nostalgic, they could have been greats for us, bias, when we are saying, there was a production line in place, producing athletes of a standard who held their own enough to yield 100m odd, then it crashed to nothing, even though we had these youngsters everyone wanted (personally had a boner about it, as Poch integrated Mason, Bentaleb, Rose blossomed etc), but there was obviously no methodology to grow players from 18-22, just train with the first team if exceptional amongst the youth and suddenly enter no mans land. Had he loaned one or two and they did well, given them 6months after in/out fighting for a spot, even if they don't make it they likely command 5-10x the fee Vs a talented youth who nobodies seen beyond 12minutes in Cup Ties.
This is why it matters so much, probably why we nicked a Chelsea guy (or two?), as we should also be yielding Livramento's and the like, youngsters clearly pushing their bounds, ours seem within themselves (you know I've been on about my nutritional scepticism about/around the club for years, as that is clearly a big part of it).
figured you'd like that.
Likely, he says. So we talking 'bout 120M for KWP then if we had sent him out on loan? Nice. Man, we are really shitting the bed then.
Also, all those players you name were not good enough and Rose wasn't 'ours'...but I'm sure Doncaster were psyched about his efforts.
WHAT matters? Again, I don't even know what we are arguing/where the goalposts are planted at this point.
also, we will produce Livramento's et al when we actually start recruiting and paying for quality. Simple. But you folks out here talking 'Trump didn't lose the election' level nonsense instead of accepting that simple truth backed by ample evidence.
The stats are no great surprise. Shows that coaches need to work hard to give the best of the youngsters coming through academies the chance to play - the youngsters need to work hard and show they deserve it of course.
But its essential for clubs to get some of the youngsters into the first team to become 'Club Trained' players, and to make up other HG numbers so as to have a full squad - always seems to be a surprise to the ill educated that club trained players cannot be bought in !
Still no minutes for Nile John, he's been on the bench 4 times out of the 8 games Charlton have played since he joined. I think he's our only outfield player out on loan that has yet to get minutes and also Charlton's only January signing that hasn't played any minutes yet.
He's growing quick, Donley. Looks markedly more manly there than a few months ago. He might be ready very young, if we don't break him.
Last edited:
Debated, just a strange one, maybe contractual issue, Pakotsi.
Cirkin, injured and family loss, then signed for Mackems summer.
Thanks. Cirkin was the player I was looking for. Yes. Seems to play consistently 90 minutes for Sunderland now. But we sold him instead of loaning him out?
My instinctual guess, was after he lost his father, his mother moved/wanted to move up north, some family reason, as he had enough about him to get him a loan (though I thought he lacked the yard of pace maybe, and seemed to not be as agile after his return from injury).
His youth pedigree meant it was easy to think something more happened than just judged to not be up to it (though as we've heard with Edwards, maybe we have been prepared to sell on low high next fee %), think it was rumoured we have a £5.5-6M buy back.
Similar to Markanday.
He wanted first team football and wasn’t going to sign a new contract. I heard it rumored that there might be a buyback clause on Cirkin.
£6m buyback clause exercisable until June 2023
English clubs continuously choose size over ability. And more and more pace is a pre-requisite for premier league clubs.
Plus the premier league clubs generally get first dibs on talent. Got a few teams near me with decent academies but parents put more “value” on West Ham, spurs, Chelsea.
Saying that I know someone’s whose cousin recently broke through to the West Ham first team having been there since he was 8 I think. So it can happen. Remember him telling me he had signed there. Time flies.
And any year there is a major competition it is worth looking at where the England players started out.
The lower league academies is not unusual.
Watching an interview with Declan Rice he almost got released by West Ham due to his size. He thinks that’s the main reason Chelsea released him previously. Probably the best young English midfielder now. An example how progress is never linear.
But it’s tough - young footballers get spat out by the system.
And the majority of academies need the numbers just to give the top 15% a team to play in.