Steve Hitchen

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HITCHENS IN OR OUT?


  • Total voters
    195
bus-conductor bus-conductor good post with plenty of relevant content. Thanks.

I've excerpted the list of players bought since Mitchell left because it represents signings made without a true, hardline, DoF structure, and instead on a system where the Head Coach outlines the type of players and positions he wants, and the Chief Scout prepares a list of options.

Of course the DoF structure is intended to ensure continuity regardless of who the head coach is, whereas our current structure is far more Head Coach-led.

Sissoko appears to have been an opportunistic Levy buy (Ncastle were going down). Whoever scouted him, paid that large a transfer fee, and gave him two lucrative contracts, is an idiot. My considered opinion is that the prime culprit is Daniel Levy.

Lucas Moura and Aurier were both opportunistic buys because PSG wanted to sell. Moura was a January punt. Aurier was bought as the "Ivorian Kyle Walker" to replace our outgoing player at half the price to provide an athletic RB to rotate with the more technical & unathletic Trippier.

Llorente was brought in as the highly experienced back up for Kane. Now Hitchen's job was to find somebody better, and ideally younger, but it's entirely possible that Poch vetoed all the alternative options.

Davinson Sanchez was considered perhaps the best young pure defender in Europe when we prised him out of Ajax. We'd already heard Mourinho highlighting his lack of ball-playing ability, so we knew he wasn't a de Ligt-style defender. But many people thought we'd pulled off a coup because if we'd waited another year it was possible Sanchez would have cost even more. With hindsight, we probably did pay too much, but the club was buying a young, fast, CB who'd already played in a European final to provide a succession plan for Verts & Toby. Surely this is precisely the kind of move a DoF would have advocated?

Foyth and Sessegnon were also talented young players bought with the future in mind, as any DoF would want. Foyth was almost certainly not the product of Hitchen's scouting, but of Poch's contacts in the game. Sessegnon was wanted by lots of PL clubs. What we don't know is whether Hitchen & Poch saw him a LB to eventually replace Rose and/or Davies, or as a wide AM.

Ndombele was one of the hottest talents in Europe. The club did very well to sign him. Now, should our scouting and medical staff have identified any physical issues? Yes. But I wonder how much of the criticism Ndombele gets is because of his gait, his running style. Ndombele lopes, but that forward leaning posture often enables him to escape from pressure. And then he gets his head up and plays aggressive forward passes better than anyone else at our club.

Lo Celso had just had an outstanding season at Betis, and was clearly a Poch target. I think he will become a key Spurs midfielder. Ndombele is 23 now, and GLC 24. Both should have their peak years ahead of them.

Bergwijn is clearly a Hitchen signing, with Amazon revealing we'd been scouting Stevie & stalking his family for at least 2 years. The jury is still out, but he clearly has talent and is much better at linking play than Moura. Again, I think a DoF approves this recommendation from his Chief Scout.

Hojbjerg is a Mourinho signing.

Doherty is a Mendes signing.

The only older players on that list, with little resale value, are Llorente (a short term option to fill a squad place) and Doherty (who Mourinho had the hots for, and Mendes facilitated).

All the rest are young, talented, players. We can argue about how talented they are. And it's always the case that some signings are mega flops, a few are huge successes, and most are in the good to meh range.

bus-conductor bus-conductor What do you think a DoF would done differently?



Add to that in his first role at the club he was said to be the scout that identified Modric and Assou-Ekotto for us as signings - and then went on to identify Suarez for Liverpool
 
Identified BAE? Wow. Found a highly rated player who didn't even like football and wasn't all that good.

Modric and Suarez, hard to spot talent like that.


The general view on scouting, which you highlight here, seems to be:

- "find me a player I've never heard of"......"I've never heard of him, must be shit"
- "find me a top quality player"......."him? anyone could scout him....he's really well known"
 
The general view on scouting, which you highlight here, seems to be:

- "find me a player I've never heard of"......"I've never heard of him, must be shit"
- "find me a top quality player"......."him? anyone could scout him....he's really well known"
Point was about BAE, a background check to find out he didn't like football and was a bit eccentric to say the least might have helped.

Was he a roaring success as a signing? I don't think so, Levy will as he made a profit.

Modric had already starred in the Euros, he was widely known. Suarez was scoring bucketloads in Holland. Everyone knew about them.

How many good players have moved lately? We weren't involved in the biggest transfers, despite supposedly wanting to compete at that kind of level.
 
What exactly is our transfer strategy under this guy? It seems over the previous several seasons we've gone for players with resale value like GLC and Bergwyn, now all of a sudden we're signing older players that have probably already peaked like Holjberg and Doherty from mid-table teams (arguably without resale value) who I don't think will make us any better than we already are.... whilst we let quality 'older' players like Allan and James R that are the complete package slip out of the radar.

Hitchen out!
Mate, on one hand you say we're signing players with resale value such us Lo Celso, then you're calling Hojbjerg past it, despite him only being only 8 months older.

I think you just fancied a moan, which is fine, but your argument doesn't tie up.

Shoulda just said he looks and sounds like a cunt. I'd have been on board then.
 
I really hope the recent changes made to the committee/ footballing side of things start to bear fruit, though I can't say I've been impressed with what I've seen of Hitchen on the documentary.

You only have to look to yesterday, as Everton's newly assembled midfield absolutely bossed ours - any of those midfielders would have improved us instantly. Our player identification/ scouting is bordering on a joke and has been for a long, long time.
Is it a joke mate ? there were a load of very argumentative experts on here telling folk that Hoijberge was so much better than what we have already. That he was the meat and potato signing that completed the puzzle. Despite the fact many had seen him innumerable times in Spurs vs Saints games and even in the few they won he was pretty anonymous. Its fascinating that people are waking up the fact that our midfield has been a creativity vacuum for nearly eighteen months from when Eriksen checked out. We have need a CDM an CAM CF of high quality since Pochettino and they should have been integrated for fifteen months. In an ideal world they would and should have been high level young players (Grealish, Tonali, Zakaria, Isak, Olmo )Anyone who watches top level soccer knows who these players are but everyone I name cost more than ENIC spend. Worse they have hired their ideal coach who wants older functional players for a system that is fundamentally at odds to the previous recruitment patterns and team style of play.
 
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I think he is just a company man, spouting the company line. No power and overpromoted. This is his reward for being a yes-man.

But on top of all that, his lack of passion for the game is staggering. Sourcing new talent is actually very exciting.
 
Point was about BAE, a background check to find out he didn't like football and was a bit eccentric to say the least might have helped.

Was he a roaring success as a signing? I don't think so, Levy will as he made a profit.


Modric had already starred in the Euros, he was widely known. Suarez was scoring bucketloads in Holland. Everyone knew about them.

How many good players have moved lately? We weren't involved in the biggest transfers, despite supposedly wanting to compete at that kind of level.


Bought for 4.5m / Left for free.
 
I think he is just a company man, spouting the company line. No power and overpromoted. This is his reward for being a yes-man.

But on top of all that, his lack of passion for the game is staggering. Sourcing new talent is actually very exciting.


Everybody moans about their job, or at least aspects of it, that's why its called 'work'.
 
bus-conductor bus-conductor good post with plenty of relevant content. Thanks.

I've excerpted the list of players bought since Mitchell left because it represents signings made without a true, hardline, DoF structure, and instead on a system where the Head Coach outlines the type of players and positions he wants, and the Chief Scout prepares a list of options.

Of course the DoF structure is intended to ensure continuity regardless of who the head coach is, whereas our current structure is far more Head Coach-led.

Sissoko appears to have been an opportunistic Levy buy (Ncastle were going down). Whoever scouted him, paid that large a transfer fee, and gave him two lucrative contracts, is an idiot. My considered opinion is that the prime culprit is Daniel Levy.

Lucas Moura and Aurier were both opportunistic buys because PSG wanted to sell. Moura was a January punt. Aurier was bought as the "Ivorian Kyle Walker" to replace our outgoing player at half the price to provide an athletic RB to rotate with the more technical & unathletic Trippier.

Llorente was brought in as the highly experienced back up for Kane. Now Hitchen's job was to find somebody better, and ideally younger, but it's entirely possible that Poch vetoed all the alternative options.

Davinson Sanchez was considered perhaps the best young pure defender in Europe when we prised him out of Ajax. We'd already heard Mourinho highlighting his lack of ball-playing ability, so we knew he wasn't a de Ligt-style defender. But many people thought we'd pulled off a coup because if we'd waited another year it was possible Sanchez would have cost even more. With hindsight, we probably did pay too much, but the club was buying a young, fast, CB who'd already played in a European final to provide a succession plan for Verts & Toby. Surely this is precisely the kind of move a DoF would have advocated?

Foyth and Sessegnon were also talented young players bought with the future in mind, as any DoF would want. Foyth was almost certainly not the product of Hitchen's scouting, but of Poch's contacts in the game. Sessegnon was wanted by lots of PL clubs. What we don't know is whether Hitchen & Poch saw him as a LB to eventually replace Rose and/or Davies, or as a wide AM.

Ndombele was one of the hottest talents in Europe. The club did very well to sign him. Now, should our scouting and medical staff have identified any physical issues? Yes. But I wonder how much of the criticism Ndombele gets is because of his gait, his running style. Ndombele lopes, but that forward leaning posture often enables him to escape from pressure. And then he gets his head up and plays aggressive forward passes better than anyone else at our club.

Lo Celso had just had an outstanding season at Betis, and was clearly a Poch target. I think he will become a key Spurs midfielder. Ndombele is 23 now, and GLC 24. Both should have their peak years ahead of them.

Bergwijn is clearly a Hitchen signing, with Amazon revealing we'd been scouting Stevie & stalking his family for at least 2 years. The jury is still out, but he clearly has talent and is much better at linking play than Moura. Again, I think a DoF approves this recommendation from his Chief Scout.

Hojbjerg is a Mourinho signing.

Doherty is a Mendes signing.

The only older players on that list, with little resale value, are Llorente (a short term option to fill a squad place) and Doherty (who Mourinho had the hots for, and Mendes facilitated).

All the rest are young, talented, players. We can argue about how talented they are. And it's always the case that some signings are mega flops, a few are huge successes, and most are in the good to meh range.

bus-conductor bus-conductor What do you think a DoF would have done differently?
BTW bus-conductor bus-conductor I note you've left Jack Clarke off that list of post-Mitchell signings.

Now, Clarke was clearly the the type of signing a DoF would in principle make: young, talented, not many first team appearances but with a high potential ceiling.

Since Clarke was playing for Bielsa, I initially assumed this was a Poch signing, based on his relationship with El Loco and Leeds' financial situation.

But Poch allegedly refused to even watch Clarke in training, and he was almost immediately loaned back to Leeds & then to QPR.

So Clarke must have been a Chief Scout backed by Levy, but not by the Head Coach, signing. In other words, the type of signing a hardline DoF would make in the club's long-term interests, regardless of what the Head Coach thought.

I hope Clarke comes good, and he's young enough to do so. But we paid a lot of money, allegedly c£10 million, for a player who is still all potential.
 
Add to that in his first role at the club he was said to be the scout that identified Modric and Assou-Ekotto for us as signings - and then went on to identify Suarez for Liverpool
That’s a bit creative. I hear he was a part time french based scout when Modric signed and he was certainly in a junior capacity to Comolli when Assou-Ekotto signed. He was not in a lead role when Suarez went to Liverpool either - and least we forget Tim and Les both scouted Suárez for Harry and he was a full international at that time. You hardly need to be Bill Nicolson to think he was decent.

probably he’s ok at scouting and is likely an ok bloke and tries his best. But lead roles at Derby and QPR hardly inspire and while Poch praised him for Lucas, it is a mixed bag both before and since.
 
The general view on scouting, which you highlight here, seems to be:

- "find me a player I've never heard of"......"I've never heard of him, must be shit"
- "find me a top quality player"......."him? anyone could scout him....he's really well known"
You are right. There is a lot more to it that a single sentence would cover. Bill Nic was potentially one of our finest ever scouts. His report on Gazza is sublime.
 
BTW bus-conductor bus-conductor I note you've left Jack Clarke off that list of post-Mitchell signings.

Now, Clarke was clearly the the type of signing a DoF would in principle make: young, talented, not many first team appearances but with a high potential ceiling.

Since Clarke was playing for Bielsa, I initially assumed this was a Poch signing, based on his relationship with El Loco and Leeds' financial situation.

But Poch allegedly refused to even watch Clarke in training, and he was almost immediately loaned back to Leeds & then to QPR.

So Clarke must have been a Chief Scout backed by Levy, but not by the Head Coach, signing. In other words, the type of signing a hardline DoF would make in the club's long-term interests, regardless of what the Head Coach thought.

So unbecoming.
 
That’s a bit creative. I hear he was a part time french based scout when Modric signed and he was certainly in a junior capacity to Comolli when Assou-Ekotto signed. He was not in a lead role when Suarez went to Liverpool either - and least we forget Tim and Les both scouted Suárez for Harry and he was a full international at that time. You hardly need to be Bill Nicolson to think he was decent.

probably he’s ok at scouting and is likely an ok bloke and tries his best. But lead roles at Derby and QPR hardly inspire and while Poch praised him for Lucas, it is a mixed bag both before and since.
Your second paragraph probably nails it. He's a okay-good scout. But he comes off as in over his head as head scout/sporting director for a club with European aspirations.
 
Your second paragraph probably nails it. He's a okay-good scout. But he comes off as in over his head as head scout/sporting director for a club with European aspirations.
I believe that any head of recruitment that hates the transfer window and is happy to be on film saying so is in completely the wrong job.

He has been our chief scout since February 2017. That means his efforts have amounted to:

7 transfer windows. Two of which we signed no one. So 5 transfer windows including this one. So 4 historic that we can judge him on. It’s a somewhat mixed bag so far.
 
I believe that any head of recruitment that hates the transfer window and is happy to be on film saying so is in completely the wrong job.

He has been our chief scout since February 2017. That means his efforts have amounted to:

7 transfer windows. Two of which we signed no one. So 5 transfer windows including this one. So 4 historic that we can judge him on. It’s a somewhat mixed bag so far.

Summer 18
Jan 19
Summer 19
Jan 20
Summer 20

= 5 windows, not 7.

By your metric; 2 judge-able.
 
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