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Transfers Summer 2019 transfer thread

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Spaniel said:
Actually, I disagree with everything you've said. We scraped in because the other three teams were going through their own problems. United began to hit their stride and were chasing us down. We were throwing away points on games we should have walked.
Our best players were clearly exhausted and Poch was hamstrung because we have such a week bench. Llorente, Wanyama, Aurier et alm.
Kane injured, Son with his band. You have to have a class replacement for at least defence, midfield and front. And we don't. We have to invest not least because some players will inevitably leave, retire etc. This is not meant to be a criticism of any particular individual. I'm just trying to get across the point that football is changing very quickly and we can't be Luddites or we may get left behind.
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No way!!!! Look at the table at the turn of the new year... We were comfy in 3rd and in the title race... We LET the other 3 back into the mix yet 2 of them still failed to take advantage despite us being in rancid form...
 
r-u-s-x said:
Change it based upon new information not what the club does specifically, the only immediate information we have is the clubs actions- that's not weak that the logical thing to do. The club has built up a history of good decisions hence its logical to use that as a guide. If we had current year accounts you would use that, we don't so we can only use what's available.

The moment they lose the reputation is when people start to question - you go ahead and shout at the moon, I am happy with my position.

Would be nice ir you and username didn't take every discussion on a tangent - you have both made your point if its not going to change based on new information then we know your position - 3 players at any cost.
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Ok, so if we can afford to buy a few players but enic/levy choose not to. You would be happy with this despite wanting 3 players?

Yes you would be happy with the club signing no one despite you thinking we need signings because of your trust.
Or no, you would be unhappy & now you don't trust the club.
Or no, you would be unhappy but still trust the club.
Or a short to the point alternative answer from you with out being a politician
 
Spaniel said:
Actually, I disagree with everything you've said. We scraped in because the other three teams were going through their own problems. United began to hit their stride and were chasing us down. We were throwing away points on games we should have walked.
Our best players were clearly exhausted and Poch was hamstrung because we have such a weak bench. Llorente, Wanyama, Aurier et al. And Sanchez has yet to prove himself imo.
Kane injured, Son with his ban. You have to have a class replacement for at least defence, midfield and front. And we don't. We have to invest not least because some players will inevitably leave, retire etc. This is not meant to be a criticism of any particular individual. I'm just trying to get across the point that football is changing very quickly and we can't be Luddites or we may get left behind.
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We scrapped in because our players were exhausted, I agree, before they were exhausted we were getting results. We did enough to get top 4, if the other teams played better perhaps we would have raised our game, I don't have a crystal ball so I will concentrate on what happened.

Everyone being fit (discounting Wanyama and Dembele , beginning of the season as they are done) we have a good first 11 and a class replacement in defence, midfield and front. The injuries were not in our control and I am chosing to believe it was a freak as it has never happened on the scale before.

I think we need three players this year, two midfielders and a RB. Probably a new striking option too (depending on Llorente). I think the club will get these, we have evidence the club were trying to get the right players at the right price. No one* is saying we shouldn't buy players, people are saying we trust the club to do it.
 
Airfixx said:
No way!!!! Look at the table at the turn of the new year... We were comfy in 3rd and in the title race... We LET the other 3 back into the mix yet 2 of them still failed to take advantage despite us being in rancid form...
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And what happened to our comfy third? We threw it away drawing and losing easy games we should have won. This is the Crux of my argument. When everyone is healthy, yes, I agree with you but we've no real back up from the starting 11.
 
scott said:
Ok, so if we can afford to buy a few players but enic/levy choose not to. You would be happy with this despite wanting 3 players?

Yes you would be happy with the club signing no one despite you thinking we need signings because of your trust.
Or no, you would be unhappy & now you don't trust the club.
Or no, you would be unhappy but still trust the club.
Or a short to the point alternative answer from you with out being a politician
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If you don't get the 3 players you want will there be riots at your creche, Scott?

.....God forbid! .....Will you refuse to eat the crusts on your jam sandwiches?


Please stream any potential tantrums... 1 subscriber pledged right here! 👍
 
r-u-s-x said:
We scrapped in because our players were exhausted, I agree, before they were exhausted we were getting results. We did enough to get top 4, if the other teams played better perhaps we would have raised our game, I don't have a crystal ball so I will concentrate on what happened.

Everyone being fit (discounting Wanyama and Dembele , beginning of the season as they are done) we have a good first 11 and a class replacement in defence, midfield and front. The injuries were not in our control and I am chosing to believe it was a freak as it has never happened on the scale before.

I think we need three players this year, two midfielders and a RB. Probably a new striking option too (depending on Llorente). I think the club will get these, we have evidence the club were trying to get the right players at the right price. No one* is saying we shouldn't buy players, people are saying we trust the club to do it.
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So actually we agree.
 
scott said:
Ok, so if we can afford to buy a few players but enic/levy choose not to. You would be happy with this despite wanting 3 players?

Yes you would be happy with the club signing no one despite you thinking we need signings because of your trust.
Or no, you would be unhappy & now you don't trust the club.
Or no, you would be unhappy but still trust the club.
Or a short to the point alternative answer from you with out being a politician
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Wake up.... Your (or any of our) predictions/projections don't mean shit. ... They don't matter.
 
r-u-s-x said:
Change it based upon new information not what the club does specifically, the only immediate information we have is the clubs actions- that's not weak that the logical thing to do. The club has built up a history of good decisions hence its logical to use that as a guide. If we had current year accounts you would use that, we don't so we can only use what's available.

*edit - added line- If we had a history in the accounts of underspending and / or not achieving then the clubs actions would not be that new information and we wouldn't trust it. Its past behavior that means we believe its new information, once that record has gone the clubs actions are not necessarily trusted.

The moment they lose the reputation is when people start to question - you go ahead and shout at the moon, I am happy with my position.

Would be nice ir you and username didn't take every discussion on a tangent - you have both made your point if its not going to change based on new information then we know your position - 3 players at any cost.
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You mean it would be nice if you could sit and defend our transfer policy unchallenged?

None of what we are saying is "going off on a tangent" it's questioning your position on the matter and so far all you have basically said is, you want the club to spend money but you trust them if they don't because they have built up the good will to afford us not questioning them, so you are accepting whatever outcome is given, that's not logical thinking, that's you giving non-commital answers whilst lambasting others for having an opinion based on previous knowledge.

I and many others are saying that we barely scraped into the top 4, our CL run is not indicative of where we truly are as a club, our manager wants us to spend money and if our owners fail to back him with the signings he wants after 18 months of inactivity, inactivity which has had, imo, a huge impact on our results last season in the league, then it would be an abject failure on their part, irrespective of any good will they have built up.

You not liking people questioning our transfer policy doesn't mean they are wrong for doing it, that's where the issue seems to lay here, you and a few others want for people to blindly accept whatever the owners tell us and if we fail to do that then we are "impatient" or don't understand that we "can't afford it" because that's what the owners have told us.

It's blind faith, you can write a million paragraphs about it but that's what it is, you are placing your faith in our owners based on optimism rather than fact.

Fact and evidence show us we haven't purchased a player for 18 months and that the players we are linked with would be our highest ever transfer fees which makes it very unlikely we will get them unless we have changed our current transfer policy or Levy has fallen victim to complete amnesia and leaves his chequebook in Pochs office by accident.

If we don't make any signings or we sign players that weren't Pochs first choice targets and we fail to make top 4 next season would you blame Levy and ENIC then? Or would you take the approach of "Well nobody is to blame" which frankly is simply a redundant way to look at things.

If I go outside and step in dog shit is nobody to blame?

If a car crashes is nobody to blame?

If I whip my dick out in public and start masturbating in front of everybody is nobody to blame?

It's a logical fallacy to suggest that blame is an irrelevance, if we fail to make top 4 next season then someone will be to blame at our club, that is a FACT, even if you don't like it and if we fail to sign the players our manager wants then our owners will be to blame, that is also a FACT, if we sign the players and fail to make top 4 then our manager and players will be to blame.

You can't just say "nobodies to blame" because it just means you always have an excuse to continue blindly following whatever the fuck our owners do and never hold them to account.

You talk about using our owners behaviour as a measuring stick as to if they will back our manager or do the right thing, well here's a measuring stick for you, no signings in 18 months and a squad that was depleted come the end of the season and our manager who is basically begging for signings.

That's a pretty good measuring stick imo.
 
scott said:
Ok, so if we can afford to buy a few players but enic/levy choose not to. You would be happy with this despite wanting 3 players?

Yes you would be happy with the club signing no one despite you thinking we need signings because of your trust.
Or no, you would be unhappy & now you don't trust the club.
Or no, you would be unhappy but still trust the club.
Or a short to the point alternative answer from you with out being a politician
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No I wouldn't be happy and they lose trust, you then question all of their decisions.

I also wouldn't be happy with buying shit players just for the sake of it, if they did the club would lose my trust and I would then begin to question all their decisions.

Unless other infromaiton comes to light.


--- Would you be happy regardless of the players as long as he spends 150M because its showing intent? me either but that's the same logic you are trying to apply on others.
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
You mean it would be nice if you could sit and defend our transfer policy unchallenged?

None of what we are saying is "going off on a tangent" it's questioning your position on the matter and so far all you have basically said is, you want the club to spend money but you trust them if they don't because they have built up the good will to afford us not questioning them, so you are accepting whatever outcome is given, that's not logical thinking, that's you giving non-commital answers whilst lambasting others for having an opinion based on previous knowledge.

I and many others are saying that we barely scraped into the top 4, our CL run is not indicative of where we truly are as a club, our manager wants us to spend money and if our owners fail to back him with the signings he wants after 18 months of inactivity, inactivity which has had, imo, a huge impact on our results last season in the league, then it would be an abject failure on their part, irrespective of any good will they have built up.

You not liking people questioning our transfer policy doesn't mean they are wrong for doing it, that's where the issue seems to lay here, you and a few others want for people to blindly accept whatever the owners tell us and if we fail to do that then we are "impatient" or don't understand that we "can't afford it" because that's what the owners have told us.

It's blind faith, you can write a million paragraphs about it but that's what it is, you are placing your faith in our owners based on optimism rather than fact.

Fact and evidence show us we haven't purchased a player for 18 months and that the players we are linked with would be our highest ever transfer fees which makes it very unlikely we will get them unless we have changed our current transfer policy or Levy has fallen victim to complete amnesia and leaves his chequebook in Pochs office by accident.

If we don't make any signings or we sign players that weren't Pochs first choice targets and we fail to make top 4 next season would you blame Levy and ENIC then? Or would you take the approach of "Well nobody is to blame" which frankly is simply a redundant way to look at things.

If I go outside and step in dog shit is nobody to blame?

If a car crashes is nobody to blame?

If I whip my dick out in public and start masturbating in front of everybody is nobody to blame?

It's a logical fallacy to suggest that blame is an irrelevance, if we fail to make top 4 next season then someone will be to blame at our club, that is a FACT, even if you don't like it and if we fail to sign the players our manager wants then our owners will be to blame, that is also a FACT, if we sign the players and fail to make top 4 then our manager and players will be to blame.

You can't just say "nobodies to blame" because it just means you always have an excuse to continue blindly following whatever the fuck our owners do and never hold them to account.

You talk about using our owners behaviour as a measuring stick as to if they will back our manager or do the right thing, well here's a measuring stick for you, no signings in 18 months and a squad that was depleted come the end of the season and our manager who is basically begging for signings.

That's a pretty good measuring stick imo.
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Choosing or unable to understand?

one of your examples- in a car crash there is always someone to blame? you cant think of a time where there isn't?
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
Well some people think we will do a leeds if we "spend above our means" anyway so It will probably be music to their ears.

Even though these same people want us to win trophies but offer no alternative whatsoever to "spending above our means" in order to achieve that goal, that's the thing that makes me laugh.

I just want to understand at what point did some of our fanbase start caring more about business than they do about football? It's like they care more about "doing it the right way" (whilst ignoring we just spent over a billion on a stadium which means that we are hardly the underdogs that people make us out to be) than they do about actually seeing us achieve anything in their lifetimes, they seem to think that if we spend money on players we will go broke, as if that's even possible in this day and age with a premier league club, we would get bought out long before that ever happened.

I can't imagine what it's like living every single day worrying about the finances of a football club worth billions and "doing things the right way" rather than actually giving a shit about what's important, like you know, watching our club win things.

Each to their own I suppose, I get it, some don't want us to "buy success" well when we inevitably get purchased by someone who does buy us success those supporters are free to go and support a club that wins fuck all for the rest of their lives whilst the rest of us can enjoy watching the club we love win things "the wrong way."

I used to give a shit about how things were won but after watching us get into a CL final and come so close I had an awakening, this is what I want our club to experience on a regular basis and frankly, I don't give a toss how we do it, after waiting 30+ years and nearly 12 years without a trophy I think plenty of us have shown enough patience.
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A most excellent and succinct post. Thanks for summing it up clearly. Football before business !!!!
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
You mean it would be nice if you could sit and defend our transfer policy unchallenged?

None of what we are saying is "going off on a tangent" it's questioning your position on the matter and so far all you have basically said is, you want the club to spend money but you trust them if they don't because they have built up the good will to afford us not questioning them, so you are accepting whatever outcome is given, that's not logical thinking, that's you giving non-commital answers whilst lambasting others for having an opinion based on previous knowledge.

I and many others are saying that we barely scraped into the top 4, our CL run is not indicative of where we truly are as a club, our manager wants us to spend money and if our owners fail to back him with the signings he wants after 18 months of inactivity, inactivity which has had, imo, a huge impact on our results last season in the league, then it would be an abject failure on their part, irrespective of any good will they have built up.

You not liking people questioning our transfer policy doesn't mean they are wrong for doing it, that's where the issue seems to lay here, you and a few others want for people to blindly accept whatever the owners tell us and if we fail to do that then we are "impatient" or don't understand that we "can't afford it" because that's what the owners have told us.

It's blind faith, you can write a million paragraphs about it but that's what it is, you are placing your faith in our owners based on optimism rather than fact.

Fact and evidence show us we haven't purchased a player for 18 months and that the players we are linked with would be our highest ever transfer fees which makes it very unlikely we will get them unless we have changed our current transfer policy or Levy has fallen victim to complete amnesia and leaves his chequebook in Pochs office by accident.

If we don't make any signings or we sign players that weren't Pochs first choice targets and we fail to make top 4 next season would you blame Levy and ENIC then? Or would you take the approach of "Well nobody is to blame" which frankly is simply a redundant way to look at things.

If I go outside and step in dog shit is nobody to blame?

If a car crashes is nobody to blame?

If I whip my dick out in public and start masturbating in front of everybody is nobody to blame?

It's a logical fallacy to suggest that blame is an irrelevance, if we fail to make top 4 next season then someone will be to blame at our club, that is a FACT, even if you don't like it and if we fail to sign the players our manager wants then our owners will be to blame, that is also a FACT, if we sign the players and fail to make top 4 then our manager and players will be to blame.

You can't just say "nobodies to blame" because it just means you always have an excuse to continue blindly following whatever the fuck our owners do and never hold them to account.

You talk about using our owners behaviour as a measuring stick as to if they will back our manager or do the right thing, well here's a measuring stick for you, no signings in 18 months and a squad that was depleted come the end of the season and our manager who is basically begging for signings.

That's a pretty good measuring stick imo.
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Its not going off on a tangent, it's us pinning him down to commit to an answer as he avoids committing to one. We have a resident politician.
Basically avoiding us digging further on his position.
 
Spaniel said:
So actually we agree.
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Yes largely, I think we have a decent squad and need to improve it. I hope last year was a bit of a freak on the injury front, this also led to poor performance's.

I think we will buy players this summer and trust the club to do the business. The thing that's got me going is the people not understanding the realities of our position and/or not waiting to see the outcome before wetting the bed.

This is an alright position but then they keep on going on about it, every conversation is just pay the money Levy. Multiple times in the same conversation, then misrepresenting others views just to win internet points.
 
scott said:
Its not going off on a tangent, it's us pinning him down to commit to an answer as he avoids committing to one. We have a resident politician.
Basically avoiding us digging further on his position.
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Cant help it if you don't understand things - I have put it as clear as I can. I gave you the benefit of the doubt but you are being a snidey mother and quite dim so jog on.
 
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