Transfers Summer 2019 transfer thread

Airfixx · 23 Jun 2019

todd1882 said:
Perhaps you agree with Guardiola then and teams should field a B team in the lower divisions?

I'm open to it's upside, tho pressumably not for the same first-world reasoning as Guardiola, but I think for us at our level of the last 10 years or so we'd need the B-team in the champo (not Div2) to make a great deal of difference if we're gonna make quality players out of N'Jie, GKN, Vinny & co rather than just give them a hard knox-style education.

As an extension of the academy I guess it could help, but again you'd want a strong synergy between A & B teams and to not let the playing style drift too much in the face of what the week-to-week oppo pose.

Repetitive moaning/negativity can be a bore. But many instances as such are still warranted because things look the same and until something changes then we can expect the same results. I've many a valid criticism shouted down. It might be the same people but, again, if the message is valid then why would the source matter?

Idealistically, it shouldn't and I think think most here try to live by that mantra.... It's tough though in the case of certain people that don't have another string to their bow and refuse to see the good in anything.

You've mentioned in the past how Hood has made good points, but we all the know story of the boy that cried wolf, right?

Wasn't finding fault. I often write ambiguous/vague shit because I write as I speak so it doesn't always translate to the written word.

No offense taken whatsoever, nor is any concession sought because of my [spoilered] revelation.

Claud601 · 23 Jun 2019

Lo Celo has been ok on my fifa spurs team. I dunno

FightingIllini · 23 Jun 2019

Park Lane Mark Twain said:
would see one bad season completely derail us like it did with that Yorkshire based team people don't like us talking about a squad a comparative.

Do you know WHY people don't like that comparison?

Because it's fucking hysterically, flamboyantly absurd. Spurs are the SINGLE LEAST financially extended club in the entire league! Dead last. The absolute furthest from the edge, and by no small margin. That's the whole fucking point of this argument.

We could go point by point as to why, but the numbers already posted make it indisputable enough, and the moment Leeds are invoked it is conclusively proven that the person you're talking to is engaging in children's fable sophistry, not financial analysis. It's a feeling, wildly ignorant of the actual facts.

Get the fuck out of here with that shit.

FightingIllini · 23 Jun 2019

The other thing is, this is not two summers ago.

We can invest in the squad and risk a collapse down toward mid-table, or not invest in the squad and guarantee one.

Park Lane Mark Twain · 23 Jun 2019

FightingIllini said:
Do you know WHY people don't like that comparison?

Because it's fucking hysterically, flamboyantly absurd. Spurs are the SINGLE LEAST financially extended club in the entire league! Dead last. The absolute furthest from the edge, and by no small margin. That's the whole fucking point of this argument.

We could go point by point as to why, but the numbers already posted make it indisputable enough, and the moment Leeds are invoked it is conclusively proven that the person you're talking to is engaging in children's fable sophistry, not financial analysis. It's a feeling, wildly ignorant of the actual facts.

Get the fuck out of here with that shit.

Have a listen of this pal:

S8 - S8E70 - Paul Robinson and the Champions League

We sat down with former Spurs goalkeeper Paul Robinson to talk about Tottenham's Champions League campaign, the prospect of the final, his run with Leeds tom the semi-final, the dressing room at Spurs under Jol, and Daniel Levy

www.thefightingcock.co.uk

Paul Robinson specifically says that the thing that fucked Leeds wasn't not winning the championship it was spending money on the reliance of making the Champions League and when that didn't happen it all went to shit.

As for the wages and amortisation percentage of 50% that you've highlighted, if we add the £493m CAPEX spend over ten years as an average of a tenth each season to that %, it shapes up to being closer to the 60-65% mark which leaves us just a little short of Man U etc as to how they use their profits to wage and amortisation breakdown which really ain't that bad or stingy seeing as we do need to be prudent with such a big debt looming over us for the duration moving forward.

I absolutely do believe we need to spend money on transfers and should have last summer but I don't think it was a bad call by the club not to and I didn't back then. We achieved our target of top 4 and a good cup run during a transitional season, one that cost us more than we envisaged with the stadium delays so I don't see it as a farce far from it.

The fact of the matter is we are the 6th biggest club in the league and we chose to retain the old guard for another year instead of invest in new blood and it came off. That money is still there but I absolutely stand by it that if we spend beyond our means without a sugar daddy funding it and we don't hit our required targets that it's poor management and it could easily go tits up. Check out that Podcast link, word for word Robinson reaffirms that spending that Champions League money withnthe expectation that you will continue to qualify for that competition only not to can bite you harder than it needs to, the same applies to Valencia as well who still have an unfinished Nou Mestalla stadium they can't find funding for completion on:

Shady Billionaires and How Valencia Escaped the Abyss

One of La Liga's proudest clubs, Valencia fell on hard economic times and seemed doomed. However, a shady billionaire and some good luck has them on the come up.

www.vice.com

Not sure if that's the best link to show what I mean but we do have huge debts and we do need to be sensible to a certain extent, regardless of how tedious and frustrating that is and can be. I want to see the best players at the club and the club hammering trophies home like there's no tomorrow but I totally see why the club count the pennies how they do, even if I think they do it a little too much from time to time.

FightingIllini · 23 Jun 2019

Park Lane Mark Twain said:
we do need to be sensible to a certain extent

It's just completely non-responsive in any form or fashion.

Your argument is 1+1=tomato

Park Lane Mark Twain · 23 Jun 2019

FightingIllini said:
Do you know WHY people don't like that comparison?

Because it's fucking hysterically, flamboyantly absurd. Spurs are the SINGLE LEAST financially extended club in the entire league! Dead last. The absolute furthest from the edge, and by no small margin. That's the whole fucking point of this argument.

We could go point by point as to why, but the numbers already posted make it indisputable enough, and the moment Leeds are invoked it is conclusively proven that the person you're talking to is engaging in children's fable sophistry, not financial analysis. It's a feeling, wildly ignorant of the actual facts.

Get the fuck out of here with that shit.

You say it's wildly ignorant of the facts, how about the fact we have spent £493m on CAPEX, £43m on accrued loan interest and around £20m in taxes so it's close to the £550m mark and are probably another £600m or so in debt? When analysing finances it would be reckless to as a 6th biggest brand or sized team based on all areas like fan base etc to expect those Champions League revenues to be a constant.
That 50% wages to amortisation figure for 17/18 is not only based on revenue, not profit which is probably a better reflectionnseeing as we have vast debts away from the W&A amortisation but it also includes Champions League profits, which were for that season €61m:

UEFA Reveal Which Clubs Earned the Most Prize Money in the 2017/18 Champions League

UEFA have published a complete breakdown of exactly how €1.412bn of prize money was split between 42 clubs competing in last season's Champions League - the...

www.90min.com

Roughly £55m of variable profit that all of a sudden isn't there's if we fail to qualify next season. Add c£55m of average CAPEX spend, interest repayment and tax over the past 10 years to the apparent £190.5m we spent on wages and amortisation and all of a sudden you're adding what 20-25% extra onto that 50%?

One season where we miss out on Top 4 and without even signing anyone up on a new contract our percentage jumps from 50% into the 70-75% ball park with CAPEX and interest+ tax included. That's mixing it with the bulk of the league and shows a fairer reflection of how we are financially managed in my opinion. As I said each to their own as to how they see or look at things I guess.

hiatus · 23 Jun 2019

Nabil Bentaleb said:
At the moment aulas wants 71.5M pounds

De Jong is apparently the second coming and he went to Barca for £68m.

Park Lane Mark Twain · 23 Jun 2019

FightingIllini said:
It's just completely non-responsive in any form or fashion.

Your argument is 1+1=tomato

Do these figures take into account CAPEX spend that averages for the last decade at £49.3m lee season or the volatile profit that comes with unexpected Champions League revenues based on Poch's first five year plan?

Add those to this % and I don't think it looks as bad as it seems. The stadium investment and risk mattered more than the football side at the time which is frustrating but equally I think it was the right thing to do. £49.3m CAPEX added to that adds roughly 10-15% onto that percentage and variable Champions League profits of £55m that season would add a similar percentage so let's say a further 25% which would take that line closer to a consistent flow of activity to what's happened over the last 12-15 months. Unless I'm adding wrong figures I think that looks about right when a team needs to consider a £1bn debt to their name whilst being part of a very competitive league.

Poch had money to spend last summer but he chose not to which would have also squeezed those profit figures down. Anyway mate there's no beef, I just think the W&A % is negatively fluffed up as it doesn't consider many variables compared to other clubs with their infrasutcure and consistent financials intact. We are in a good place but numbers can occasionally be skewed for right and for wrong.

hiatus · 23 Jun 2019

Park Lane Mark Twain said:
Have a listen of this pal:

S8 - S8E70 - Paul Robinson and the Champions League

We sat down with former Spurs goalkeeper Paul Robinson to talk about Tottenham's Champions League campaign, the prospect of the final, his run with Leeds tom the semi-final, the dressing room at Spurs under Jol, and Daniel Levy

www.thefightingcock.co.uk

Paul Robinson specifically says that the thing that fucked Leeds wasn't not winning the championship it was spending money on the reliance of making the Champions League and when that didn't happen it all went to shit.

As for the wages and amortisation percentage of 50% that you've highlighted, if we add the £493m CAPEX spend over ten years as an average of a tenth each season to that %, it shapes up to being closer to the 60-65% mark which leaves us just a little short of Man U etc as to how they use their profits to wage and amortisation breakdown which really ain't that bad or stingy seeing as we do need to be prudent with such a big debt looming over us for the duration moving forward.

I absolutely do believe we need to spend money on transfers and should have last summer but I don't think it was a bad call by the club not to and I didn't back then. We achieved our target of top 4 and a good cup run during a transitional season, one that cost us more than we envisaged with the stadium delays so I don't see it as a farce far from it.

The fact of the matter is we are the 6th biggest club in the league and we chose to retain the old guard for another year instead of invest in new blood and it came off. That money is still there but I absolutely stand by it that if we spend beyond our means without a sugar daddy funding it and we don't hit our required targets that it's poor management and it could easily go tits up. Check out that Podcast link, word for word Robinson reaffirms that spending that Champions League money withnthe expectation that you will continue to qualify for that competition only not to can bite you harder than it needs to, the same applies to Valencia as well who still have an unfinished Nou Mestalla stadium they can't find funding for completion on:

Shady Billionaires and How Valencia Escaped the Abyss

One of La Liga's proudest clubs, Valencia fell on hard economic times and seemed doomed. However, a shady billionaire and some good luck has them on the come up.

www.vice.com

Not sure if that's the best link to show what I mean but we do have huge debts and we do need to be sensible to a certain extent, regardless of how tedious and frustrating that is and can be. I want to see the best players at the club and the club hammering trophies home like there's no tomorrow but I totally see why the club count the pennies how they do, even if I think they do it a little too much from time to time.

There was a THST meeting were Levy specifies a Europa window spend and a CL window spend. I think our baseline financials are always Europa for the very reasons you mention above. We never want to rely on CL revenue - this is part of the reason why the stadium is so important. That sort of sustainable income is vital, especially for a club that has to balance its own books.

But that’s an entirely different discussion from whether we have cash available for transfers or not.

Oracle · 23 Jun 2019

Park Lane Mark Twain said:
You say it's wildly ignorant of the facts, how about the fact we have spent £493m on CAPEX and are probably another £600m or so in debt? When analysing finances it would be reckless to as a 6th biggest brand or sized team based on all areas like fan base etc to expect those Champions League revenues to be a constant.
That 50% wages to amortisation figure for 17/18 is not only based on revenue, not profit which is probably a better reflectionnseeignas we have vast debts away from the W&A amortisation but it also includes Champions League profits, which were for that season €61m:

UEFA Reveal Which Clubs Earned the Most Prize Money in the 2017/18 Champions League

UEFA have published a complete breakdown of exactly how €1.412bn of prize money was split between 42 clubs competing in last season's Champions League - the...

www.90min.com

Roughly £55m of variable profit that all of a sudden isn't there's if we fail to qualify next season. Add £49.3m of average CAPEX spend over the past 10 years to the apparent £190.5m we spent on wages and amortisation and all of a sudden you're adding what 20-25% extra onto that 50%?

One season where we miss out on Top 4 and without even signing anyone up on a new contract our percentage jumps from 50% into the 70-75% ball park with CAPEX included. That's mixing it with the bulk of the league and shows a fairer reflection of how we are financially managed in my opinion. As I said each to their own as to how they see or look at things I guess.

I’ll win any dick waving contest on this forum, it’s not the biggest but I’m ambidextrous.

VirginiaSpur · 23 Jun 2019

Nabil Bentaleb said:
One month ago the news of us getting a contract arranged with ndombele came? Damn in America you guys do really live in the future.
Besides do you think I care whether you believe or not? Just don’t try to belittle me or pass me has a bullshiter. The only times I spoke in these terms where while the club negotiated with Paris Saint germain.

Transfers - Summer 2017 transfer window or, waiting for Godot

Lyall is the Walder Frey of writers.... He'll see which side is winning than jump in like he's been there the entire time. In other words, he likes to have his pie and eat it...

www.thefightingcock.co.uk

Five or six days before being official.

Airfixx · 23 Jun 2019

Oracle said:
I’ll win any dick waving contest on this forum, it’s not the biggest but I’m ambidextrous.

Vids?

BangkokSpud · 23 Jun 2019

FightingIllini said:
"Sustainability"

Some good information but just to caveat ....

These numbers are all from the last accounts declared in 2018 covering 2016/17 .... since then we've completed the biggest overhaul of our salaries in our history - remember the Poch arm over the shoulder photos?

That's not to say we haven't increased our income even more, we have but that 148m 41% has gone up considerably in the last twelve months ....

But as you rightly say we are now under-spending on salaries compared to our rivals - and that's really very good news ....

Do you know why Woolwich, Utd, and even City are struggling with FFP? It's because in order to buy new players they have to trim their salary spend ... they may have the transfer cash but under FFP they have also hit their maximum spend .... we have not, not even close.

Woolwich are stuck with Ozil and Mkhi, Utd with Sanchez because nobody wants that salary on the books

We on the other hand can sign Ndombele, Asensio, Lo Celso, pay them all 200k a week add 30m to our wages budget and still come in way under FFP ... that's because all that additional 150m a year revenue generated by our new stadium is allowable as 'new revenue' under FFP and can go straight into the wages budget.

So when people blithely say "stadium or players" they are talking our their arse .... it's chicken and egg without the stadium sure we may well have had a few 100m to spend on players, but as our income would be 200m a year less we would not be able to increase our salary budget, so no signings without selling first .... just the hole Woolwich and Utd are in now, and just where we've been for a decade

Putting up fancy graphs shows the numbers, but you need to understand what they mean ...

A - Old Spurs in WHL - income 200m salary spend 60% so 120m .... that's mid-table level

B - New Spurs NWHL - income 400m salary spend 50% so 200m .... that's top six level

Why the feck do you think we spent 10 years and 900 million building the bloody thing?

Now it's built we can reap the benefits ... 150m of new players incoming ... just be patient

FightingIllini · 23 Jun 2019

BangkokSpud said:
Now it's built we can reap the benefits

Correct

Atomic knob · 23 Jun 2019

Airfixx said:
Or depending on one's perspective...

The MEGA SHOWERS.

Or

Loved IRS

COckneY Spurs · 23 Jun 2019

A little of topic here but just to put the cost of players into perspective here.
28 years ago to the day Alan Sugar bought control of the club for just over 7m quid....

Wellsey · 23 Jun 2019

COckneY Spurs said:
A little of topic here but just to put the cost of players into perspective here.
28 years ago to the day Alan Sugar bought control of the club for just over 7m quid....

Then sold it for £21.9m... now worth ££££...You're Fired!

COckneY Spurs · 23 Jun 2019

Wellsey said:
Then sold it for £21.9m... now worth ££££...You're Fired!

Exactly, sugar sold out completely in 2007? for about the same again, so roughly speaking here, since 91 to 07 the entire football club, lock stock and barrel changed hands for about 50/60m......10 odd years later you wouldn’t get a decent Centre half for that.

Spaniel · 23 Jun 2019

Notabadsquad said:
Sorry but most fans would prefer a strong side over a great stadium.

I got shit thrown at me for the same remark

Transfers Summer 2019 transfer thread

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